Fantasy Gods, Races, Settings, Magic Systems and Miscellaneous

My Elemental Powers list looks... a bit different. There's five of them, but it's not the traditional elements Eastern or Western; it's Light, Order, Darkness, Chaos, and Outside.

Outside is not actually a category, but a catch-all for magic originating from another dimension or universe that doesn't fit into the other four categories.

What's the difference between order and chaos?

How do these elements work? Where do rocks and trees come from? What are animals and people made of? What is flesh and blood?

I saw someone do an "elemental" magic system using the modern scientific elements once, not sure where, and since then I've wondered just how difficult it would be to make magic system that used 118 elements. And assuming that would be as confusing as it seems, possibly using a system based on subatomic particles or forces instead. I suppose one could just be lazy and use states of matter too... I do like the idea of an "Liquid Mage" having a spell to change nitrogen gas in the air into a liquid.

The first difference between Order and Chaos is that they can be defined as Lies and Truth. Chaos is the truth; chaos begat all things; chaos is all things. It is savagery and instinct and core.

Order is a lie. Order is the imposition of a fundamental truth on a system that does not have a fundamental truth; Order is the opposing force of hierarchy, of making disorganized chaos into an organization.

There's more to it as well. Chaos is about emotions; instincts; survival and muscle, blood and bone. Order is about the soul; music, art, literature, and all the things that humans have created that weren't "real" before we came along.

Then there's the more usual thing. Chaos is freedom, since it is possibility; Order is subjugation, the pruning away of those branches. Order is stability, since it is the ability to say THIS SHALL BE and so it is; Chaos is shattering, the denial of any stability at all in a world where anything can happen.

The differences are there, and staggering.

And yet...

For Chaos to be all things, it must also be a lie. And for Order to exist at all, it must be true, on some level.

Order and Chaos are inherently wrapped up inside each other- more Tao than good and evil. At the furthest reaches, Order becomes Chaos, Chaos becomes Order; to be truly free, after all, you have to have the right to subjugate others (Chaos becoming Order); one who wishes to subjugate must be free to do so (Order becoming Chaos). And that's one example. It's not something I've mindlessly copied from D&D; a plane of pure Order wouldn't be able to function, nor would one of Chaos, because the two have to have each other. Culturally, the relationship is often relegated as one of siblings, or even marriage, depending. T

The rise of a monotheistic religion has relegated such things to children's fables, but the elements are still there culturally speaking.

Rocks, trees, and the like are made of natural scientific elements; magic is an additional piece of the world overlaid atop the one we know. Different things align to different magics.

Growing things align with Light (photosynthesis) and Chaos (natural, real, fundamental, and it grows- changes). Bats are Dark aligned (nocturnal and a predator- hunger is a vital element of darkness). Dogs are Dark and Order aligned (darkness is related to the mind, and dogs are smart, while dogs also have powerful bonds with humans, thus Order aligned). Cats are the same way for the same reasons but lean more towards Chaos because they are less tamed.

People align in different ways depending on what they do. Someone who's a police officer will almost always end up Order aligned by the nature of what they do, while a firefighter is probably gonna end up Dark aligned because they keep putting out fires (conquering Light). A computer technician ends up Order because computers are artificial and that belongs to Order.

That's a very interesting take on things. While I don't personally like the “paint reality magical” approach, I can appreciate what you've come up with. I'm curious as to how you'll try to use the elements in-story.

Wondering what kind of natural feature could prevent a continent spanning empire from reaching another two continents in the world. The empire is at about the early 1800 level tech and its continent is positioned on the world's far north so its northern border leads directly into an impassable arctic region. The other two continents are positioned 9,000 km away to the south east.

Currently I've got a ring of volcanoes and very tall, mountainous non volcanic landmasses positioned around the empire's borders at the edge of its tectonic plate. The mountainous landmasses generate large amounts of rain and ocean currents from the arctic regions cool down this region. Heat from the volcanoes is drawn into this area and the clash creates a permanent storm that destroys any ships that attempt to cross.

How plausible might this be geographically, and how effectively might it contain the empire? Are there any other features which can be used to encircle the empire in addition to the volcanoes?

You could have the empire be self-isolating, like China in the 15th century. The reasons could be anything you want, from plague concerns to ancient taboo, or even embezzlement of its navy. Maybe they use one or both of the continents like England used Australia for prisoners or exiles. Going the self-isolation route also means you could use the empire any time as a plot element.

You can look to modern geographic boundaries for inspiration when it comes to natural features. The Great Barrier Reef has that name for a reason. While Icebreaker ships have been around for a while, they were limited until steam-power was used so both sea-ice and icebergs are great hazards. Speaking of ships, stormy weather is a great idea, Cape Horn has nearly everything except a volcano.

The ring of volcanoes by itself would be a HUGE way to keep people out. You know the Ring of Fire in the Pacific Ocean? Highest rate of eruptions, earthquakes, landslides, and general unpleasantness in the world.

temporary measures but, if there is any rival civilization with comparable or superior naval power, it could be that, as is the case in my setting, the empire is prevented from expanding for a long while simply because they cant compete with a smaller nation that is out to prevent their expansion to other continents.

i think this would go well with stuff like the aforementioned ring of fire which can herd ships to a generally safer but more predictable route across the ocean.

im trying to think of a new type of magic for my setting...

the current idea im thinking on is a type of eldritch music magic that distorts the environment in a set area to the whims of the caster.

course, lately everytime i think about it the picture that comes to mind is a group of adventures wandering around a lost woods-esque area only for the music to cut and their surrounding shift into a pub where a guy is slamming a jukebox with a chair and one of the adventurer's head is stuck in the ceiling and then another guy in the pub starts singing badly and the scene shifts back to a really shoddily drawn woods.

...and now i cant take it seriously at all.

Sounds like a pretty cool magic system

There's a spell that causes everyone to do the flop. This is downright hazardous if you're a chainsaw wielding knight.

edited 4th Dec '14 11:25:27 PM by zepv

I'm not sure if this is exactly the right spot to place this, so if this post is in the wrong thread please feel free to have it deleted or moved to the appropriate thread.

In my Work-in-Progress, I'm currently working on a Creation Myth and a few Beast Fables that hopefully explains the prehistory of a Fairytale World, but also subverts and justify the behaviours and tropes associated with animals in Fairytales. For example; why are animals capable of speech? Just why is The Big Bad Wolf evil?

The twist though is that these stories are told through the perspectives of the very Beasts and Animals themselves. The one that I think is most deserving of attention though is the explanation given as to why Man and Beast are incapable of communication.

The Animals believe that in the beginning The Seasons were the first to walk the Earth and that they followed after, where they were given dominion over The Wild (Wilderness) and laid down the Laws of their kingdom i.e. Killing only for survival, Respect for the natural order and Nature etc. It was The Fae who appeared next and while they respected The Beasts' Laws, they were not trusted for they Magic separated them from the Animals.

Despite the presence and secrecy of The Fae, a Golden Age occurred and the Great Beasts (Dragons, Giant Wolves etc) roamed The Wild. It was with the appearance of Man that it all changed. At first, the two were allies, working and co-existing together in The Wild, but Man grew proud and bold and in its arrogance, broke The Beasts' Laws. The Animals believed that they drove Man from The Wild and that those creatures who followed Man (Domesticated Animals) were traitors and fools to their Kingdom.

As Man prospered, The Animals retreated into the Wild and as time kept passing the two lost the ability to communicate to each other for the hubris of both Man and Animal placed themselves above the other.

Ironically enough, the Big Bad Wolf isn't a hard and fast rule—lots of fairy tales have wolves as the protagonist's guide.

Oh I'm aware of this. My intention with these animal stories is to explore deeper aspects of such characters like The Big Bad Wolf. I have an idea of devoting a chapter or two to his character in flashback. In my Fairytale world, The Big Bad Wolf isn't just any wolf; He is the wolf. One if the Great Beasts and as the story progresses, we discover he is the very last of them. His overall character arc essentially is one of acceptance. He starts the chapter as a very proud being, fighting off Man for their disrespect, to growing jaded and bitter to finally broadening his perspective as he ages and finally dies. He's a minor character but hopefully one who leaves an impact.

That sounds fucktastically awesome.

As for me, I've got a goddess that's hard to pin down. The culture in general has a Name That Unfolds Like Lotus Blossom convention, and it's a vaguely Middle-eastern/Asian empire (the empress is fantasy-East-Indian and her homeland is about 2-3 months south).

The empress has three children, and her fourth daughter is the protagonist. She was born two months premature and needed magical breathing aid for her first month, and to top it off, the emperor saw an omen: The Gods' Cradle is a holy mountain range to their chief goddess, the Mother of Mountains. The palace is built nearby, and the Gods' Cradle was visible while he and the midwife were talking about a bad turn in the empress' pregnancy. (The range is usually obscured by fog/clouds.)

The Gods' Cradle is a risky omen regarding children, and the emperor gets terrified that his fourth daughter's going to die soon after birth, especially since she's premature.

Mountains end up being a really big theme in the story—the protagonist is named Waker-of -Mountains (partly to honor/appease the Mother of Mountains, partly because she ends up being pretty damn loud once her lungs stop needing magical assistance). In the start of the plot, she ends up shipwrecked by a mountain range in Fantasy-Europe, and the Mother of Mountains helps her by ensuring that she and the remnants of her retinue survive an avalanche, and said avalanche is also responsible for getting them found by Fantasy-German scouts making sure that the mountain-dwelling people are okay.

The problem is, I don't have a good idea of who the Mother of Mountains is, so I don't know how to use her in a non-plot-device manner. She's not evil or the empire wouldn't celebrate her at their births, but one of the empress' maids gets hysterical after hearing about the emperor's omen—she claims that the empress' rough birth must be because the Mother of Mountains got jealous that she's had three healthy children already, so she wants the princess' soul back from the mortal world.

What are the traits of mountain-spirits/deities, aside from the overlapping rock/stone/strength symbolism? How would they tie in to a mother-deity who tends to be feared and respected more than loved?

First of all thankyou for your enthusiasm regarding my project, that really means a lot. Second of all, congratulations on developing what sounds like a wholly unique and original plot as of this point. This Mother of Mountains figure intrigues me so much.

That being said, I'm afraid that in all my research into folklore and mythologies I haven't found many deitys whose soul dominion are mountains. Sanshin (Korean), Jacawitz (K'iche' Maya), the Lords of the Three Mountains (Chinese), and Pamola (Abenaki) respectively, are the only few I know of. Aside from these six gods (the Lords of the Mountains are a toaist triad), Mountains, it seems tend to serve as aspects of various gods rather than as the whole of one.

They also tend to be typically male. As to mother aspects that could be used in conjunction with mountains. Perhaps the association between the two is due to the appearance of gems and precious stones who are, themselves, seen as the children of the Mother of Mountains? Perhaps she is a dormant volcano and the magma flow is compared to a womb? If this was the case, perhaps her percieved jealousy comes from the fact that she is not able to conceive?

I hope I'm providing some helpful ideas and concepts and understood the question.

Courtesy of the Deconstructing Fantasy Races thread, stereotypes I pinpointed and played with

• Dwarfs (And giants)
  • "Dwarfs are of the earth." I made dwarfs a race of elementally aspected beings, it is merely that that sub-race aspected toward the earth is the most common and wide-spread.
  • "Dwarfs are grumpy long beards." As they grow older, their element slowly encroaches on their body and their brains. The transitional period between being entities of most flesh and mostly of their element happens around where their fleshy bodies have become very old, the men sport great periods and they all are prone to nasty mood swings. It's also a painful transformation, so self-medication with alcohol is common.
  • "Dwarfs are short." Dwarfs are giants. That is, once they complete the metamorphosis into completely elemental beings, they just keep growing and growing. At this point, they are not dwarfs, they are called giants. Eventually, they will lose physically cohesion and stop being humanoid in shape. Then their minds will begin to die, but until then they are small-scale Genius Loci.
• Elves (And gnomes)
  • "Elves are magical." Becoming a wizard for everyone else starts as process of awakening your magic. Elves are born awake and are wizards to the one. Magic is the power of the mind, drawing from the dream time. Every other caster takes magic in and sequesters it off to some quarantined portion of the brain. Elves have zero degrees of separation and are inherently neurotic.
  • "Elves are ageless." Elves, at some point in their lives, will stop aging. They know, instinctively, when that has happened and when they do, they mark the date. 100 years from then, to the second, that elf will drop dead. It's very sobering.
  • "Elves and height. That is, elves seem to be a lot of different heights, like, oh my god, and rarely normal human height." And elf's age will stop somewhere between 5 and 55. By age 30, considering that they have not stopped aging, they will have reached their maximum height, significantly taller than humans. After that, they begin to shrink until at 55, they are the same height as they were at five. Their is a special word for elves who stop aging near the end or beginning of this curve, "Gnome."
• Orcs (And goblins)
  • "Orcs lord it over goblins." Goblins are baby orcs.
  • "Orcs and goblins are bestial savages." Orcs aren't, goblins are. Goblins are only semi-sentient for a very long time before they go through a semi-magical butterfly-esque metamorphosis where they go into a short coma, do some other things and grow an identity, intelligence, the whole shebang, emerging from it as fully realized adults.
  • "Orcs and goblins live in shitty places." During their metamorphosis, a goblin will magically absorb the 'essence' of her environment. When she is reborn an orc, she will sport adaptations for that environment. Orcs will pass on these adaptations to their goblin children but only the adaptations they gained when becoming orcs and not the adaptation they themselves inherited from their parents.
  • "Any knowledge orcs have is instinctual." Orcs will 'remember' any general information their parents specifically gained in their lifetimes but not anything their grandparents knew. If an orc isn't careful, they may forget, or just become sloppy with, which information is something they've learned and which they inherited, thus effecting what they pass on to their children. How different orcish societies address this varies.
• Hobbits
  • "We gotta have some fuckin' hobbits but they can't be hobbits really because that's copy-righted." Brownies, they're chimp people.
  • "But we tend to forget they exist." Theirs is an ancient race whose once great empire was violently shattered in time immemorial. It was so long ago, they don't even remember. Now they exist either in isolated rural communities or scavengers among the urban poor. Their existence is dismissed by everyone else.
• Humans
  • "Humans are the standard by which other races are compared." Back in the day, before humans existed, all the other races did. They took a gander at one another, saw that they had the same basic shape and collectively labelled that shape 'humanoid'. During times of peaces, other races got together and they got... 'peaceful'. This happened so much that many races interbreed themselves into oblivion. The races that are left are those who, by a combination of cultural isolationism and strong genetic incompatibility, remained pure. The resulting descendants were an unidentifiable slurry that could only be called 'humanoids', later shortened to just 'humans'.
  • "Humans are jack-of-all-trades." With big mixed soup of genetic traits that humans are, eventually the dominant traits floated to the top and that turned out to look like, well, what you expect humans to look like. Thankfully, all the shitty stuff turned out to be recessive, but so did all the cool stuff. Genetic throwbacks happen, on occasion, but then you're just playing the Superpower Lottery.
  • "Humans are wide spread." Humans inherited the nations and consolidated the numbers of their ancestor races. Elves, Dwarves and Orcs once counted themselves a few among many. Now they are basically three of four race, because now everyone else is human.
  • "Humans are diverse while other races are a Planet of Hats." While other races have splinter cultures and nations, each race has a mother culture they obviously were hewn from. Humans inherited the splinter cultures of many different mother cultures, their identities as a group of people, religions and beliefs, mannerisms and tabboos.
  • "Humans can breed with anything." Human genetics by this point are fairly, er, fluid. Humanoid included things we'd call monstrous humanoids, bestial humanoids, all alongside regular humanoids. Whatever Creator made this world hadn't ever meant for any one thing to be able to breed with everything else but had left the door open to a chain of things, each 'cousin' to the next thing and the last thing and able to interbreed which just that. Elves, Orcs and Dwarves proved that races will sustain themselves as hybrids are either absorbed back into the whole, their descendant's genetics buried under the mainstream until they are indistinct from the original, or they wander off to join the other half of their genes. Humans are what happens when, instead, family lines meander all over the place. The result is something 'cousin' to damn near everything. Elves, Orcs and Dwarves, plus whatever other purestrains are left, are now viable candidates for human wiles.
  • "Half-Human Hybrids are not actually called that." Since the veracity of humans as a race is in doubt, when a human does interbreed with one of the remaining purestrains, children are called half-whatever the non-human parent is. The other half is 'everything else', so calling the child anything else is an excercise in being anal. And if the parents had stuck with anal in the first place, they wouldn't be having this kid.

I thought up the name "Mother of Mountains" because it sounds so cautionary—I mean, you only get a good look of mountains from a distance, so you definitely wouldn't run up and hug someone deemed the mother of them. Name aside, she's actually more an earth-deity than a specific mountain one—she just represents the rock/metal/gemstone aspect of earth more than the soil/plant-life aspect that most people think of. There's a more conventional earth-deity running around somewhere, so I'm not worried about that.

And volcanoes, oooooh. I always knew volcanoes would be somewhere in her domain.

So with that in mind, I now have a solid myth floating around in my head: The Mother of Mountains was born as the much kinder Sings-by-Moonlight, but while she and her husband were reigning, a divine war happened in which her people were nearly destroyed and they fled to the Gods' Cradle. After a massive Heroic BSoD, she learned how to fight from her husband and then requested to face the opposing side alone. Her enemies laughed when they saw her walking out alone to meet a host of warriors, but they learned otherwise when she declared herself the Mother of Mountains and obliterated them with an eruption/avalanche.

Everyone knew she'd be fighting on her own, but they did NOT expect a full-on volcanic eruption—so barring her husband, even the other gods became at least a little scared of her. When things calmed down, she refused to answer to her old name and didn't return to the lowlands with the others; her husband has to go back to the mountains to visit her.

I'm thinking she either lost her deity children in the war, or she got a really bad injury to the abdomen/womb and became infertile, which is why she's now held in such caution by expecting parents—not so much "jealousy that she can't have children" as "resentment/trauma from how she lost hers." She's definitely going to be a patron of smiths, miners, and sculptors in addition to her role watching new mothers. Plus, the Mama Bear aspects of her nature are very obvious.

I'll think up a name for her husband later. XD

edited 15th Dec '14 9:25:35 PM by Sharysa

A mountain is a natural disaster waiting to happen.

As deadly in its cold stillness as a forest fire or hurricane. There's a reason even in this modern age mountains still claim the lives of those foolish enough to think to conquer them.

The main idea? I would personally assign is pride.

A mountain saw the birth of your civilization and shall see the end. The hottest fires from the heart of the earth but pleasantly warm her feet; she parts the very clouds and declares her supremacy over the sky. Even the greatest of storms weeps ineffectually at her skirts. Entire armies scramble like ants to seek the most temperate paths through her domain, lest her power crush and freeze them. Nations have sheltered in her shadows and fled from her screams. The turn of the seasons is nothing to her, for she will out live nations and entire species. The only enemy that could, even would, best her is the slow decay of time and it will be hundreds of thousands of years in it's murder.

Pride is only natural for one of the queens of the earth.

With a strong mythology like that, the Mother of Mountains just continues to fascinate me. In a way she reminds me of Daenerys Targaryen. I also appreciate how you very cleverly twisted the Persephone Myth. In fact, with an injury to her womb/abdomen, you would be making some pretty strong connections to the Fisher King from Arthurian Mythology. With a feminist message to boot too!

That being said, I think Matues might be on to something in regards to her Pride. Reading her story again with that aspect of her personality in mind, it actually comes together really, really nicely. You basically end up with a character who, through injury and the death of her children, has essentially been robbed of her primary purpose of reproduction and rearing children, but, unlike her male counterpart in the Fisher King, she rises above her loss and becomes a considerable force to be reckoned with.

Very engaging stuff!

edited 16th Dec '14 4:28:31 AM by J.G.Crowne

Thanks for the feedback, guys! I'm just going to make the "infertile vs. lost her children" thing a regional difference. It's an empire, they're not going to compare notes about it. Plus, the end result is the same—horrible child-related loss, Sings-by-Moonlight goes berserk on the people responsible, and she's now the Mother of Mountains who will burninate/avalanche you if you piss her off (also don't call too much attention to your adorable babies, or she may want their souls back).

Didn't realize the Persephone connotations—I was actually thinking of Macha from Irish mythology. She was forced to race a chariot on foot while heavily pregnant due to her husband's weird-ass drunk bet, won the race but lost her twin babies from the stress, and cursed the men of Ulster to feel labor pains every nine years for the loss she suffered. I always wondered what happened to her husband—he messed up pretty fucking bad, especially since she actively tells him not to talk about her in some versions, and yet he's never mentioned again (although it might just be that we lost any records of his myths).

For the regions that believe the Mother of Mountains "only" became infertile, it's taboo to mention that X-Deity or Y-Deity is her child because they're afraid of dragging up her painful memories, so they call them the children of her husband's "first/other wife." The culture's polygamous, so it's common for men to have two or three wives if they can afford it. And it's technically true that his "first wife" Sings-By-Moonlight is dead seeing as she renamed herself, took on a new persona, and has an entirely different role in the pantheon than she used to.

You know what, there's a crapton of chthonic symbolism in this, so time for myth hunting.

edited 16th Dec '14 6:57:11 AM by Sharysa

I've been working on a few Eldritch Abomination types. One of my most favored ideas is a being known to his/her/they/its followers as Jester for the laughing clown motif.

It's avatar is the best thing I can describe, it is described as a long black shadow of a man with irregular proportions and strange green accents instead of actual distinguishable features. Piercing green eyes which when observed can be described as filled with madness, and a long green jack-o-lantern like grin that just appears unnatural on anything shaped like a man.

And that Avatar is just a remote body so Jester can communicate with it's followers, anyone who ever sees anything close to what he actually is tends to go mad. To say nothing of what he does to "empower" people, he basically up and stabs them and sucks the life and blood out of them, replacing it all with what is considered his blood, colloquially known as just ruin. The results vary from a minor skin condition to deforming mutations.

As for his goal, the closest anyone can get is that he wants to destroy reality, but not just reality itself but all realities in existence. Reasons vary from theory to theory, such as one suggesting that since the multiverse is ever changing his original aspirations were pointless as there were countless other universes where they never came about, others suggest that he is madness itself and that he just wants to end that madness by making sure nothing can ever go mad again.

I am still working on him a bit... any ideas and suggestions?

edited 16th Dec '14 7:19:08 AM by echoingsilence

i think the omnicidal maniac thing could probably be replaced for the better with an alternative motivation.

the impulse to destroy is a very understandable one for humanity, and i feel that kind of takes away from eldritch nature of the jester.

rather, perhaps change its goal as less "destroy everything" and more "fundamentally alter the way everything works (to unpleasant results for its inhabitants) for the sake of better satisfying whatever drives it; if you want to keep the omnicidal maniac flavor to it, make one of its fundamental changes immortality with only minor regeneration and no anti-aging so it can better torture and kill its inhabitants over and over again, rather than just once..

or perhaps the changes are made to better sate its appetite for whatever it feeds on; feeding on negative abstract concepts is a very...eldritchy thing, and essentially frames the situation as a case of a higher being breeding us as cattle akin to the way we do our livestock, albiet with no intention of being "humane" because it literally doesnt understand (or give a shit about) the concept.

or maybe it doesnt care about humanity or the various realities in any way at all; we're simply caught up in the middle of a battle between two monstrous entities far beyond us, and one of them just hasnt made its presence known to us because we cant fathom it's existance like we can the jester.

edited 16th Dec '14 9:13:42 AM by Tarsen

I did plan for him to only view humanity as tools for his goal. Puppets for him to use (since he did take care to make the Avatar approachable by most sentient life) but that could work. Since his plan was doomed to failure as the nature of the multiverse would have negated what he did by splitting into two universes, one where he succeeded, one where he didn't.

One where he is actively trying to fundamentally change reality to better suit him as he is madness and fear incarnate works, and guarantees him a bigger chance of winning.

As for warring with other beings, in more comical writings he has a rivalry with another being who calls himself Chronos.

But I like these ideas you have suggested.