The Scrappy Cleanup

Think this entry should be cut from the Danganronpa Scrappy page:

• Hifumi Yamada is disliked for being a stereotypical Fat Bastard nerd, his perverted tendencies towards female characters, the No Yay relationship between him and Alter Ego, killing off Kiyotaka (who is one of the more popular characters), and generally being unimportant for most of the plot. While people still felt bad when Hifumi died, a lot of that sympathy goes away once you realize Hifumi tried to have everyone besides him and Celeste killed, and he's still an Asshole Victim regardless of whether or not he believed the accusations that Kiyotaka raped Celeste to be true. Even beyond that, Hifumi murdered a man for something he didn't do, not even bothering asking Kiyotaka about it before beating him to death. With all that under his belt, it's hard to feel bad for Hifumi, and most people didn't mourn his loss. A 2017 popularity poll conducted on Reddit saw Hifumi come in last place among every Danganronpa character, even below the Big Bads and Hate Sinks, which says pretty clearly just how much Hifumi is disliked.

Having played the game, Hifumi is very much a Hate Sink as his character is meant to be little more than a disgusting pervert. Any “sympathy” the game gives to him is mostly Played for Laughs. Permission to delete?

Edited by dvx105 on Aug 10th 2022 at 12:51:27 PM

Unsure about that one. His death scene is played tragically with him regaining his memories of his school life before dying for real, and his free time events end with Makoto’s typical “I think we’ve finally become friends in the truest sense of the word” speech he gives at the end of every other set free time events, so I’m willing to say he has some sympathetic moments.

Yeah, Hifumi is gross in plenty of ways, but he's got a human side and is given real sympathy, especially when his death is remembered.

As mentioned before, I believe that Cameron from the Pokemon anime is a scrappy. I don’t think the Japanese fandom likes him too much as they claim they do. Cameron even seems to have been excluded from even future cameos and that hints that even the creators know that fans don’t want to see him again.

I want to restore the entry, but I’m open to criticism.

• Cameron. Introduced at the end of the Junior Cup arc, he displayed far greater traits of an Idiot Hero than Ash ever did. Not only did he miss the tournament, but he thought the Unova League took place in Ecruteak City in Johto. He also got Ash lost in the woods, and even his own Riolu is disappointed with him; affectionately giving a Face Palm at his actions. It doesn't help that one, he defeated fan favorite Bianca in what many perceived to be a cheap win, and two, the kid has scary-ass evolved Pokémon that prove to be a huge threat, like a damned Hydreigon and his little Riolu which seems to have gotten through Training from Hell like one would expect from Ash's Pikachu. To add further insult to the injury, he brings only 5 Pokemon to an official Unova League match of 6-on-6 against Ash. Worse yet, Cameron's Riolu has received a lot of hate due to how he mimics his trainer's hyperactive attitude. The worst of all is Riolu evolving to Lucario as a last ditch attempt to defeat Ash's Snivy and Pikachu in the league. And then it happened: Lucario defeated Pikachu, and Cameron won the battle against Ash, meaning Ash has yet again lost a major league, this time to such an air-headed trainer, and adding insult to injury in that Cameron was handicapped by having one less Pokemon than Ash. But as a bit of small consolation, Cameron lost to Virgil, who then went on to win the league.

What evidence is there's he's not that popular in Japan? Give that, trim it to five sentences (none of the anime's other Scrappy's are more than five on why they're hated) to stop it from being ranty, and I'd that.

Also from TheScrappy.Pokemon:

• Of all the scrappies in Pokemon, none are quite so infamous as Mindy. Located in Snowpoint City, which houses the penultimate gym, she offers to trade you her Haunter for a Medicham. Haunter evolves into the Ghost-type powerhouse Gengar when traded, and Medicham are rather common on the nearby Route 217. So, it seems like a no-brainer to say yes. The problem? Her Haunter holds an Everstone, an item which prevents evolution when held. So, she essentially gives you a Haunter which you have to evolve on your own. Mind you, trade evolution is such a Scrappy Mechanic that one of the most common changes in ROM Hacks is its complete removal. To make matters worse, you don't know going in that it'll have an Everstone. And to rub salt in the wound, she's laughing at your face after the trade and explains that she made it hold an Everstone, implying she isn't some oblivious person not knowing what that rock does, but a massive bitch that's trolling the player. So, the game basically pulls the wool over your eyes which is what really cements Mindy's scrappy status, and many a tirade has been made on various forums about her.

Mindy was cut twice prior as this is such player trolling she's supposed to be hated for it. But she was removed from Hate Sink per its cleanup as too little narrative/plot involvement to count. If it can be explain why she's hated for different reasons than intended for it then she'd count, anyone have such? If not what to do with the entry?

Missed that. Thanks for clarifying that.

Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on Aug 10th 2022 at 6:10:50 AM

Diantha was just discussed last page, she's not a Replacement Scrappy because she didn't "replace" anyone. She's just a champion.

I’d also like to see some evidence that the Japanese fanbase actually hates Cameron, and that evidence should be more than just “Because I think so.”

Yeah that's just a long list of things he did that are annoying. It's not explaining the audience reaction

Not about pointing a required clean up, but do we have a thread to discuss whether a character qualifies as The Scrappy or not? A bit like the Complete Monster thread?

Or if it's this thread, what are the qualifiers?

Edited by ChrisX on Aug 10th 2022 at 11:36:28 PM

No, and we don't really want such a thread? Characters can be discussed here if needed but we really don't want to make CM-thread clones.

Going back to Diantha, is she even hated in Japan? Just being lackluster =/= being hated, and the entry on Pokémon reads more like a list of complaints rather than noting that the fanbase hates her.

A popularity poll reported by Smogon actually places her above Alder and Wallace (though she still has very few votes), so perhaps the entry should be either retooled under Americans Hate Tingle or removed entirely.

As a reminder, popularity polls only ask you who your favorite character is, so Diantha not having that many votes just means that she doesn't have that many people who consider her their most favorite character.

That being said, her being top of the lower half list makes me think that it's not likely she's actually hated by the vast majority of the Japanese fanbase, so I'm leaning towards her Scrappy entry being cut altogether.

I've never met anyone who hated Diantha. Most people just find her mediocre. Plus she was recently allowed to win against Lance in the anime, so if anything she's probably more popular now than before.

I'm kinda inclined to agree with adding Cameron though. I know for certain that he's absolutely hated by Western audiences. Even Western fans that like the BW anime as a whole usually dislike him. And truth be told, I've never actually seen any evidence that Japanese fans feel the opposite way.

To be fair, IDK if anime portrayal has any impact on the games since a lot of game players don't care much for the anime and many anime characters are way different from their game counterparts. So Diantha could be cool there and still unpopular in the games.

In my experience most of the game fans don't really care about the anime. I've been on multiple sites where the anime discussion is made up of a very small fraction of people who participate in game discussion, including our own forums.

Hell, our general Pokémon thread has nearly ten times the post count of our anime thread. And that doesn't even take entry-specific threads (e.g. the SWSH thread) into account. There have even been a couple times where people trying to start anime discussion in the general thread got shooed out.

Edited by Karxrida on Aug 11th 2022 at 1:55:45 AM

Diantha definitely doesn't count for reasons already stated. None of the three champions who could qualify as Replacement Scrappy count either imho. Even Hau is at worst a Base-Breaking Character.

Cameron, on the other hand, gets left out of every anime tie-in. Even other polarizing Conference opponents like Tobias and Alain still get mentions and cameos nowadays. Cameron gets nothing. That should say something about how few people like him.

Edited by badtothebaritone on Aug 11th 2022 at 4:01:35 AM

That last bit feels more like playing guessing games with what the creators of the show were intending. I don't think we should add that entry back unless there's more solid evidence that the Japanese fanbase actually hates the guy.

Also, that proposed Cameron entry has the character of Virgil listed as a Creator's Pet, which I'm also not sure he actually is. Any evidence stronger than "Because I think so" that he meets all four criteria?

Characters can be discussed here if needed but we really don't want to make CM-thread clones.

Okay. Let me try something from The King of Fighters entry. Usually there's only the entry of Bao right here:

• The Scrappy: Bao. Added to the Psycho Soldiers team in '99. Too annoying to fight as, overpowered (at least his first incarnation) to fight against, and stealing Kensou's powers. The strangest thing about this? He was conceptualized as beginner-friendly. How they could screw that up so much is a mystery.

After looking at various entries, I think I might try to consider BOTH of Kim's usual teammates, Chang Koehan and Choi Bounge.

Choi used to be a case of Germans Love David Hasselhoff or Mexicans Love Speedy Gonzales that he had a fanbase in Korea, but right now, it's all silent. In the Americans Hate Tingle entry of the page, Chang and Choi get a mention but it's written with Zero-Context Example.

I think the reasoning is that they're mostly comic relief and kind of awkward to use as far as a Fat and Skinny pair goes. Additionally, their presence means that Kim's team will most likely include those two as opposed to other potentially cooler characters (like Jhun Hoon or May Lee Jinju, or even Kim's sons Jae Hoon or Dong Hwan). They've been there since the first installment in '94 and they have such little fandom and generally generates 'Ugh' reaction when they're in a roster, as if people groaning that they're taking up roster space that could have been used for someone else cooler.

In XIV, they took up a whole team with new leader Xanadu, to which while he's not a scrappy, he's just... ignorable. In XV, they're completely absent f rom the base roster, but then so was Kim and Xanadu. Kim has been announced for Season 2 DLC, but while people still wonders if there will be teams in DLC, people have been hoping that in case it's about teams, then they hope Chang and Choi are NOT Kim's teammates, they're hoping that the two still stuck with Xanadu in the 'nowhereland' he's headed in the end of XIV.

So... considering those, are Chang and Choi fit as scrappies? If this is too series-specific, please let me know and I'll take it to the Discussion page of the series (I'll probably remove other ZCE examples in Americans Hate Tingle). Would love to bring this to the VG forums for discussions, but I'm banned from the VG forum section for good (and I'm fine with the status quo at the moment) so Discussion page is the next best thing.

Thanks.

Edited by ChrisX on Aug 11th 2022 at 9:24:58 PM

Bao is just a Tier Induced Scrappy as they're disliked for gameplay reason, not The Scrappy which is hated for writing/narrative reasons. Are Chang and Choi hated for gameplay or narrative reasons? Is there proof the reason you state they're disliked is a widespread complaint?

And it sounds like we want to cut Diantha as while she's a step down from prior regional champions she's not outright hated enough to count. That the case?

Probably I should discuss with the Discussion page, but here's the thing: KOF XV is going to have their Season 2 DLC packs announced later, what's teased so far is that Kim is going to be one of them. From a majority of discussion (like in Reddit), most people seems like hoping that they don't get Chang and Choi. These are the reasons that I gather so far:

• They're supposed to be comic reliefs, but they're basically hapless criminals that tries to go back to criminal ways, only stopped by Kim who keeps dragging them for his crazy rehabilitation term in the name of justice. ^note Now Kim himself is considered by a lot as crazy, but he's also a Reconstruction of this attitude of Justice Will Prevail: He knows he'll be thought as crazy, but he will regardless stand up for justice for. This... clashes really hard with Chang and Choi. They're never harmful like some other monsters out there, but they're not being considered charismatic at that.
• Kim has gotten his own roster of peculiar close friends that could very well become his teammates. Most prominently Jhun Hoon and May Lee, both of them coming with their own unique styles of Taekwondo and generally also beloved by fandom. Chang and Choi, however, has been around since KOF 94 so they're considered by SNK as 'iconic' for the 'South Korea Team', so SNK tends to more or less try to bring them back for 'nostalgia's sake', which doesn't sit well with the fandom. Basically, Chang and Choi are always considered 'stealing spots for what could be more interesting teammates for Kim or even spot in the roster for anyone else'. Granted, since the Tales of Ash arc, SNK has been trying to deviate this, and for the most part, people are taking it well when they don't see the duo:
  • In KOF XI, he's part of the Fatal Fury Team with Terry and Duck King.
  • In KOF XIII, his teammates were Raiden and Hwa Jai.
  • In KOF XIV, his teammates were Gang-Il and Luong. (Gang-Il was not that received well, but at least it was more about how he's more 'ignored') Unfortunately, Chang and Choi are in the roster with newcomer Xanadu, to the point the fandom wished Xanadu (who's more or

Reddit seems to think of them very lowly, but... it's Reddit. I'm not sure. I probably should bring this to the Discussion page of the YMMV page to confirm. You think?

Discussion pages are generally dead. You're not going to get much done taking it there.

On Rhythm Heaven:

• The Scrappy: Out of the three Gatekeepers in Megamix, Paprika does not have a very high reputation for hosting some hardest challenges in the Game.

I don't think this counts since it's for gameplay reasons, not characterization.

Yep, that can be safely cut.

badtothebaritone: Well, someone actually replied in the Discussion page. But as far as I know of, we don't have a notifier for discussion threads... or do we?