Five-Man Band cleanup

So one of the FMB members could have another trope like PCR, just not as their defining attribute?

edited 30th Jan '18 1:42:13 PM by Lymantria

I noticed that JoJo's Bizarre Adventure has different configurations listed on FiveManBand.Anime I To M and JoJosBizarreAdventure.Tropes E To F. None of them seem to fit the mold:

• Joseph's group doesn't even have five members. The one girl in the group is an Action Girl rather than The Chick.
• The part 3 protagonists don't have a single female member.
• Part 4's cast also lacks major women. The trope's page tries to shoehorn Yukako into the role, but specifically says that she's a subversion, which disqualifies her.
• Part 5's group has six core members, two of which are candidates for The Leader, two for The Lancer, and makes Narancia the Tagalong Kid even though he's as much a core member of the team as everyone else.
• Part 6's group has three female members, none of which are listed as The Chick. An argument could be made for F.F. to fit that role, but she's listed as The Mentor for some reason (she isn't actually a mentor to anyone, and is in fact the least experienced member of the group due to being a plankton granted sentience and trying to adjust to human life).

Recall that it isn't an example of Five-Man Band. There's no comment being made about Five-Man Band in the suggested edit.

~Water Blap, I edited my post now.

Thanks. I think the answer to your question is "yes." I'm pretty sure that's what was being discussed, though it was confusing. I think it depends on the primary role in general situations and fighting situations and the like. Y'know, the group dynamic and also the dynamics between each of the team members.

• Plucky Comic Relief can fit with any role in a Five-Man Band (Big Guy could be a Big Fun or The Smart Guy Could be a Ditzy Genius for example)
• Water Blap I think your write up for Teen Titans is a bit long, You don't need to explain in that much detail (more specifically the mention of the Bad Future, while interesting, isn't necessary and I think that Cyborg's section is especially long). Otherwise it looks good.
• Also you mentioned that you think that a Tagalong Kid can't be in a Five-Man Band (I may have misunderstood you) could you explain what you mean?

Tagalong Kid can also be part of the FMB in the same was a Comic Relief in my opinion.

Like if it's clearly The Big Guy, but they're a Pint-Sized Powerhouse they may also be the kid. Or if its a Child Prodigy Smart Guy, or if The Leader is a Rookie Red Ranger Kid Hero they may also be the 'tagalong kid' if their team is mostly adults or older teens.

But if the character's defining attribute is being a child, and you have to shoe horn their strength or intelligence, then that smacks of not being an FMB after all. But could still be a perfectly valid Team where Tagalong Kid can be their defining attribute.

Also agree that Teen Titans write up feels correct but too long. It's generally better to pare down to their defining attribute(s)/archetype(s) quickly before it ends up feeling like a whole character bio.

edited 30th Jan '18 10:56:25 PM by acrobox

I don't think the length is a problem. What concerns me is the talk about Plucky Comedy Relief and Tagalong Kid as acceptable in a Five-Man Band. It has five archetypes and that is it. The characters could have them, of course, and they might be used as context for a character being an example of one of the correct archetypes, but it does fit itself.

Now, can be please go to example cleaning? I agree that the Jo Jo's Bizzare Examples do not fit for the reasons listed.

We never said that they could replace a role in a Five-Man Band only that individual characters can have them as tropes outside of the 5 tropes in a Five-Man Band.

• Could we get rid of this one it doesn't include C3-PO and R2-D2 who are core members and Luke, while The Hero isn't The Leader at any point in the film, Obi-Wan and Leia lead at different points in the film but he doesn't.
• A New Hope:
  • The Leader Luke Skywalker
  • The Lancer Han Solo
  • The Big Guy Chewbacca
  • The Smart Guy Obi-Wan Kenobi
  • The Chick Princess Leia

The Star Wars example has been debated in the past: it provides the current page images for most of the FMB subtropes (with the robots for The Smart Guy instead of Obi-Wan).

edited 11th Feb '18 4:27:28 AM by Lymantria

Well the original Star Wars was based on The Hidden Fortress and they were supposed to be bystanders and low level extras and not actually part of the crew. Empire they were upgraded to that spot and Lando got The Sixth Ranger spot.

How is this for Negima Second Season ?

Five-Man Band: The Baka Rangers (Dummy Force in the dub) was once a throwaway line in the original manga about the 5 worst students in the class. It gets expanded to its own short miniseries in this where they spoof Sentai, gain powers to fight crime and constantly fail at trying to live up to their roles.

• The Leader: Asuna Kagurazaka (Baka Red),. All the get up and go and decisiveness of a leader but being an idiot her actions always fail.
• The Smart Guy: Yue Ayase (Baka Black), The Brilliant, but Lazy member of the team who prefers sucking on a boxed drink than doing work.
• The Big Guy Ku Fei (Baka Yellow), The Anime Chinese Girl of the crew, loves to hit things and eat. The dub gave her Hulk Speak instead of ending every sentence in ‘aru’.
• The Chick: Makie Sasaki (Baka Pink), Butt-Monkey of the series, spends the first two shorts crying and complaining on how the camera cut off her intro and getting sent on errands instead of into battle. She almost got her own in-series spinoff series ‘Go Go Baka Pink’ but it was rejected by the studio. Major Chickification from her original series self who is made of iron and won’t let anything get her down.
• The Lancer Kaede Nagase (Baka Blue) the quiet ninja who’s only real lines are opposing view points to Asuna and what’s going to happen if they don’t do whatever.

edited 11th Feb '18 5:35:43 AM by Memers

• There's a few problems with that one firstly it has more than 2 girls, second does Yue actually do anything with his or her (I can't tell based on the name) intelligence if not then that's another problem. Finally Makie doesn't seem to actually fit as The Chick based on your description as she doesn't seem to fit the roles peacekeeper and The Heart of the group.

• Also if you want to argue that the robots aren't The Smart Guy or aren'tt all that important (both of which I disagree with) that doesn't change that Obi-Wan and Leia are in charge and not Luke.

edited 11th Feb '18 12:59:41 PM by papyru30

IIRC, it was strongly argued that Luke is The Hero. And the Star Wars group was a Five-Man Band because FMB used to consist of The Hero et al. but now it's The Leader et al. If I had to guess, someone shoehorned Luke into The Leader in order to keep the Star Wars example part of Five-Man Band.

On the history page for A New Hope, the last Five-Man Band example had Luke as The Hero before the whole thing was cut...

On FiveManBand.Film, it looks like entries for The Hero were just changed to The Leader without much discussion (back on 14 July 2012). Here's the page in this thread during that time period. There really doesn't look to have been a lot of discussion of the Film subpage.

Whether the FMB should include The Hero (as it was originally) or The Leader (as it was changed to) is an old and long debate. Is this the place for that?

Either way Obiwan isn't part of the band in a new hope. He dies as soon as Leia joins, so they never really get to operate as a team of 5. And the example totally disregards the droids who have as much if not more screentime than just about any other character.

edited 11th Feb '18 8:57:37 PM by acrobox

Baka Pink's catchphase that gets cut short is 'everyone get along Baka ~' and Baka Black's special ability is inane trivia although that doesn't specifically appear in Negima Second Season, only in the live action series.

And its a deliberately designed spoof of Sentai based of a single panel joke in the original manga, I dont see how gender really matters here and matters in general.

edited 11th Feb '18 8:02:04 PM by Memers

All examples must fit the gender restrictions. If you want to change them, start a TRS thread.

That is quite sexist and does not make sense especially in this case when it is a deliberate invocation of Sentai Five Man Bands.

If it is a deliberate invocation of the trope then it should be the trope....

When Sailor Moon rebuilt Magical Girl by grabbing Sentai elements it also brought the Five-Man Band dynamic with it. Yes Pretty Cure 5 and Smile Precure are both perfect examples of all girl Five Man Bands, they literally follow every single stereotype.

I don't think having two girls on the team disqualifies something from Five-Man Band. We were just talking about how a FMB could have a max of two women in the band.

The Baka Rangers have 5 girls though.

Then it doesn't count.

I have been arguing that it could be any number of women so long as only one is in the "feminine" role. My post in 1544 is more of a descriptive summation of the previously agreed upon part.

We do have Amazon Brigade if they don't actually fit into the specific roles.

The Baka Rangers are 5 girls though, they were a single note joke in the original manga as they were the 5 worst students in the class with Baka Black as lead being the worst.

The Negima Second Season version of them was a series of 8 shorts of them being a full Sentai squad with Baka Red in the lead spot with the worst grades, fitting the specific color and personality for the leader, and they fight and die to Dr Pooh. It is further used in the live action◊ and Negima Neo although it’s studying that is their enemy.

Aside from Makie, who gets a lot of ‘girly’ stereotypes, there is literally nothing in the shorts that assigns anyone else genders. They might as well be guys.

But again several all girl Magical Girl teams are Five Man Bands as well.

edited 12th Feb '18 8:56:46 AM by Memers

Memers, I didn't decide on the rule and you're derailing this thread. If you want to change the trope's definition, bring it up with a mod or in Trope Repair Shop and go back to cleaning up the trope as it is in this thread.

edited 12th Feb '18 1:02:04 PM by Lymantria

Are we removing them or not? Personally, I think both should go.