About the quote by Grognor on the "quotes" page.

The rest of his post reads: "Screw you guys. Hard games are what real men play, and true Final Fantasy fans know that no game in that series has has any redeeming qualities whatsoever since the sixth game." Is this sarcasm?

A question as to where this would go:

There are several subsets of Fan Dumb, however, I've seen one that seems almost exclusive to video games, but can't seem to figure out where it would go.

I've nicknamed it "Fandom Denial," for the moment, where an absolutely obsessive fan of a video game or game franchise virulently denies being a gamer, claiming it's too "nerdy," and that they are only there for the background story and the philosophy (so related a bit to the Toxic Missionary subset).

A very good example is The Elder Scrolls, with it's oodles of background lore. There was one particularly infamous member of the fandom who seemed at first to be a Toxic Visionary, however when the discussion drifted to how the gameplay mechanics may cause some of the lore "issues," he said something to the effect of "We aren't talking about games. Games are for a special class of nerds who should all be neutered." Leaving aside, for the moment, the irony of someone willing to flame and threaten people over differences in opinion over a fantasy world calling someone else too nerdy, The Elder Scrolls is a game franchise.

The related fandom/hatedom tropes seem so far to be: Toxic Visionary Toxic Missionary Public Medium Ignorance (Games as Art debate) Creator Worship/Death of the Author (Worshipped Michael Kirkbride, all other writers completely ignored).

So, is there space for this in Fan Dumb, does it deserve its own page, what? I'm not sure where to put this, if it goes anywhere at all.

I'm confused about the "Easily Impressed" breed.

The "Malignant" form makes perfect sense, but the "begin" form seems to be just someone who enjoys stuff without worrying about other people's opinions, AKA not fandumb.

Is it me, or many types of Fan Dumb are Not So Different? The Unpleasable Fan and the Vocal Loyalist, for example.

Does anyone think that Fan Dumb needs a Flamebait, Fanspeak or YMMW banner much like Hate Dumb?

Oh and even though i'm not a mod, i'd recommend a Rule Of Cautious Editing Judgement when it comes to this. I see one too many pages where Fan Dumb exists because "They just are" and heated debates on the matter, and unlike Hate Dumb, little is actually being done about it. If this page isn't going to get a Flame War or YMMW banner, at least give out a good reason to why the fans are "Fan Dumb."

Is there a type of fan dumb to describe fans who take tropes like Animation Age Ghetto or What Do You Mean Its For Kids a little too far? They'd be the sort that retroactively apply gloomy elements to the children's entertainment they enjoyed in their youth (or even ignore tropes like Parental Bonus or Periphery Demographic and claim that children's media they enjoy are actually not even for kids in the first place) because they're obsessed with the objects of their fandom being taken seriously, or the type that believes "sex and gore" = "mature".

Where could that kind of mentality go?

I don't know if there's a name for this in any circles yet, but a distinct variety of fandom that I've found particularly obnoxious for a long time is something I like to call a "Soap Opera Fan in Denial" or, more simply, a "Matchmaker". This is the kind of person who gets antsy about waiting to see when Character A and Character B are finally going to kiss, or hook up, or whatever in spite of how unimportant such a theme is to the series in question. These are people who won't take "It's not a soap opera" for an answer; they get personally offended that Leela and Fry aren't constantly making out and discussing their feelings, they give Resident Evil 5 only a 7 out of 10 strictly because "the potential for drama in the Chris/Sheva/Jill triangle was wasted", and they write lengthy, furious rants about how Harry Potter's first kiss was with Cho. Is the driving force of your TV show a bungling loser who can't get a girlfriend? They DEMAND to see this guy get a steady, boring relationship. Does your book star a male/female team who neither display any romantic interest in each other nor give any reason to believe they would even be a compatible couple? They will send you sternly-worded mail asking "WHEN are they going to admit that they love each other?" Maybe they're voyeurs, maybe they just see themselves in the loser characters too much, maybe they simply share Marge Simpson's knee-jerk "Everyone must be paired up" philosophy; one way or another there is no situation where romance is too frivolous, inappropriate, or even downright creepy for them. And they must be stopped.

This is similar to the kind of person who demands answers to the questions that the author refuses to answer (usually because they are stupid questions): "How does Strong Bad type with boxing gloves on?" "Is Hobbes truly alive, or just a figment of Calvin's imagination?" Is there anything like this anywhere on the site? Because I think it warrents some attention.

I just read through the types list and I couldn't find one type that I think belongs here. Of course, I should get a second opinion, so here's my short explanation:

This type of fan is one who claims that Super Zombie Robot Wars III is the best in the series despite never having actually played SZRW 3. Often, after SZRW 9 is declared by the rest of the fandom to be the best, this fan will continue to claim that SZRW 3 is far better than SZRW 9. He will occasionally use examples to show why he believes this, but since he has never played SZRW 3, these will invariably be of the It Was His Sled variety. This fan often rants about how They Changed It Now It Sucks.

Real-life examples of this would be Final Fantasy fans with FF 7 or Pokemon fans with Gen1 and/or Gen2 games. Not to say that all FF 7 or early Pokemon fans haven't played the games, of course.

I don't know if somebody noticed this, but the second post of this thread in the QueenZone forum shows examples of most of the types regarding the Queen fanbase:

http://www.queenzone.com/forums/1224448/ruined-forever.aspx

I'm putting this here because I don't think it needs to be noted on the main pages, for a reason.

This trope has no right to exist, since it is only used as a pothole to insult people who dare to think differently from the mindless TV Tropes hivemind.

A minor name-change suggestion, but I'm wary of just editing it into a core page like this: "King (or Queen) Customer" could be simplified as "Royal Customer".

I hate to admit it, but I think I'm a bit of a Mad Bride here. I haven't seen a single episode of Fullmetal Alchemist or Soul Eater since Envy and Crona died, and one of them technically didn't really die off. Hope I can avoid this and force myself to watch Death Note after L's death. God I miss him!

Would the addition of a Troper tales page be welcome? It often seems that fandom can best be understood though individual stories. Or would this just lead to Flame Bait?

I have, in various ways and at various times, been Fan Dumb a whole lot. At least, by the standards of the page. I have a whole website about taking what other people made and imagining it *with effort and/or taste*. Then we create fan works based off of that. Now, because of my perspective on the media arts, I may not have the right to say something like this, but shouldn't it be stated in the page that a lot of Fan Dumb characteristics can be YMMV? Because by the way the page handles things, it seems that there's no such thing as error, laziness, or greed in a given work, and therefore, if you want improvement or if you even recreate the original work with a different perspective and improvements in particular areas, and ESPECIALLY if you voice your opinions, then you're automatically Fan Dumb.

There's no such thing as a perfect work, and MOST works are less than ideal. So Fan Dumb depends on the context and the attitude of the person, and Fan Dumb can, at times, be YMMV. This page seems to have an intimidating attitude that all kinds of fans who don't just "smoke a bowl and accept it" are Fan Dumb, and by implied peer pressure it discourages creative and honest alternate opinions and perspectives altogether. That's just not right...

I was in a Fan Dumb. I started a one man war against anyone who went out of there way to bash the show Loonatics Unleashed. I regret it now but I just really despise the general crappy treatment this show gets and part of me would be happy to continue the fight.

I wonder if it would be possible to add a new category of Fan Dumb.

Sort of the opposite of the Mad Matchmaker, the fans who are convinced that there is no romantic potential in a series, that saying two characters could get together is an insult to the series, and if romantic subplots start to develop, will cry foul and claim that the series is catering to the shippers and/or the series is going downhill. Maybe they had a bad run in with crazy shippers that scarred them, maybe they have a personal reason for hating the word 'love', or maybe they just don't think it goes with the story. But for whatever reason, these people just can't stand the idea of romance developing, no matter how logical or illogical the situation.

In other words, these are the people who apply No Hugs, No Kisses to an extreme.

This doesn't include those who dislike romance in a story - just those who take it upon themselves to crusade against the idea. It's one thing to protest a pairing that popped up three episodes ago involving a new character that is suddenly contemplating marriage with a long running series character; it's another to insult the creator for fleshing out a pairing that's had subtext since the beginning. Or to protest the very existence of fans who enjoy romantic pairings.

We seem to have a lot of groups for fans who believe the series should go a certain way or die - I think we should add a few more classifications for fans who want the story to stay in place and never change.

I'm unsure about the meaning of "Hipster Fan". At first I just assumed it was about fans who jump ship when something becomes popular, and indeed, it makes reference to Its Popular Now It Sucks. However, the rest of the section seems to be about things that are popular for being well-reviewed. I thought "Hipsters", at least memetically, were more known for liking things for their obscurity, not for their popularity or for being well-reviewed. Does this maybe need a different name?