History Main / FanDumb

24th May '17 5:39:27 PM GearWax
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[[folder:The '''Follower''']]
This is the kind of fan that hates/likes something about their series simply because others do too. They can't find legitimate things to talk about so they just follow a bandwagon. These people tend to have little interaction with other fans and they also usually hide their personalities online, instead acting anonymous. Similar to the Hipster Fan, but is actually a fan of the series.
[[/folder]]
''A fan who complains and praises about things in their fanbase only because others are doing the same.''
24th Apr '17 10:05:19 PM PippinPops
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* '''Toxic Genius''': A fan who seems to believe that the fact that other people are disagreeing with her/his strongly held opinions is not because they have different but equally strongly held opinions, but because s/he's just so much smarter than they are that they can't recognize her/his correctness. The operative term is usually "you just don't get it" (i.e."you're much stupider than I am and thus can't see why this show is amazing/dreadful"), couched in as patronizing and condescending a fashion as possible. This variant can also be found engaging in slightly pretentious (and often [[EpilepticTrees wildly off-mark]]) analysis of the show. Many times the Toxic Genius is often shown as being a single-character-interpreter blind to AlternateCharacterInterpretation, believing that only ''his/her'' interpretation of the character is correct. (Seen especially in character-heavy works like books, film, and some video games.) Likewise, s/he will [[FanHater not allow anyone to view the character any differently]].
* '''Toxic Visionary''': Like the Genius, the Toxic Visionary uses his perceived intelligence as a weapon ... except s/he thinks s/he's smarter than the creators. A self-proclaimed (if falsely-humble) expert on everything, the Visionary is given to long discussions about how the creators clearly don't understand their own work as much as s/he does, often peppered with phrases such as "I don't like the direction [the creator] is taking in [insert work here], "I'm not an expert on [X], but..." and even, in sufficiently bare-faced examples, outright coming out and saying "I could have written it better," said completely without irony. S/He can usually be found picking over the work for nonexistent {{Subtext}}, earnestly trying to settle questions [[ShrugOfGod the creators would rather leave unanswered]] and overestimating the significance of "hard" fandom as a whole.

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* '''Toxic Genius''': A fan who seems to believe that the fact that other people are disagreeing with her/his their strongly held opinions is not because they have different but equally strongly held opinions, but because s/he's they're just so much smarter than they are that they can't recognize her/his their correctness. The operative term is usually "you just don't get it" (i.e."you're much stupider than I am and thus can't see why this show is amazing/dreadful"), couched in as patronizing and condescending a fashion as possible. This variant can also be found engaging in slightly pretentious (and often [[EpilepticTrees wildly off-mark]]) analysis of the show. Many times the Toxic Genius is often shown as being a single-character-interpreter blind to AlternateCharacterInterpretation, believing that only ''his/her'' ''their'' interpretation of the character is correct. (Seen especially in character-heavy works like books, film, and some video games.) Likewise, s/he will [[FanHater not allow anyone to view the character any differently]].
* '''Toxic Visionary''': Like the Genius, the Toxic Visionary uses his perceived intelligence as a weapon ... except s/he thinks s/he's they think they're smarter than the creators. A self-proclaimed (if falsely-humble) expert on everything, the Visionary is given to long discussions about how the creators clearly don't understand their own work as much as s/he does, they do, often peppered with phrases such as "I don't like the direction [the creator] is taking in [insert work here], "I'm not an expert on [X], but..." and even, in sufficiently bare-faced examples, outright coming out and saying "I could have written it better," said completely without irony. S/He They can usually be found picking over the work for nonexistent {{Subtext}}, earnestly trying to settle questions [[ShrugOfGod the creators would rather leave unanswered]] and overestimating the significance of "hard" fandom as a whole.



A fan who appears to have nothing in his/her heart but loathing towards the show ... and yet still keeps coming back, often proclaiming her/his UndyingLoyalty to it in the process. Often a fan who's been burned in the past, s/he nevertheless keeps hanging around purely to complain about how s/he's been burned. The Loyalist Complainer is very fond of announcing that s/he has been burned once too often by the show and will be leaving the fandom, and yet s/he never actually seems to leave. Despite the fact that s/he just complains nonstop about it, should anything threaten the show's existence (such as a cancellation threat), hers/his will be among the loudest voices raised in protest of the cancellation. Basically, if you've worked in a business or public-service job, the Loyalist Complainer is, in summary, the type of customer who says they will not be coming back to do business with you, but comes back again and again. May be her/his {{Guilty Pleasure|s}}; in fact, s/he may proudly proclaim it as such in an effort to establish themselves as smarter than other fans.

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A fan who appears to have nothing in his/her their heart but loathing towards the show ... and yet still keeps coming back, often proclaiming her/his their UndyingLoyalty to it in the process. Often a fan who's been burned in the past, s/he they nevertheless keeps keep hanging around purely to complain about how s/he's they've been burned. The Loyalist Complainer is very fond of announcing that s/he has they have been burned once too often by the show and will be leaving the fandom, and yet s/he they never actually seems seem to leave. Despite the fact that s/he they just complains complain nonstop about it, should anything threaten the show's existence (such as a cancellation threat), hers/his theirs will be among the loudest voices raised in protest of the cancellation. Basically, if you've worked in a business or public-service job, the Loyalist Complainer is, in summary, the type of customer who says they will not be coming back to do business with you, but yet comes back again and again. May be her/his their {{Guilty Pleasure|s}}; in fact, s/he they may proudly proclaim it as such in an effort to establish themselves as smarter than other fans.



This fan has an overdeveloped sense of entitlement, believing that certain works are aimed ''only'' towards members of her/his demographic. While it is true that certain works are, in fact, marketed towards specific demographics, the Mainstream Militant will insist that this means [[PeripheryDemographic members of other demographics]] are not allowed to enjoy those works. S/He'll typically act as if those fans who fall outside the target demographic somehow "cheapen" his own enjoyment of those works. S/He will make it known loud and clear that such fans are undeserving, and will attempt to run them out of the fandom. Often SuffersNewbiesPoorly.

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This fan has an overdeveloped sense of entitlement, believing that certain works are aimed ''only'' towards members of her/his their demographic. While it is true that certain works are, in fact, marketed towards specific demographics, the Mainstream Militant will insist that this means [[PeripheryDemographic members of other demographics]] are not allowed to enjoy those works. S/He'll They'll typically act as if those fans who fall outside the target demographic somehow "cheapen" his their own enjoyment of those works. S/He They will make it known loud and clear that such fans are undeserving, and will attempt to run them out of the fandom. Often SuffersNewbiesPoorly.



This is, although not the only type of Fan Dumb by any means, probably the most classic example of it. S/he is SeriousBusiness taken to the extreme. ''Nothing'' outside of the object of the fandom exists for this person, except perhaps the fandom itself. This means that they will attempt to discuss the object of their adoration every single chance they get, often attempting to twist or divert other discussions to this end, regardless of how awkward or nakedly inappropriate it is ("Yeah, it sucks that your father died; I felt exactly the same way when Captain Magnatron failed to defeat the Zargons in Episode 19"). This often leads them to exaggerate the actual significance of the work in a general context [[UpToEleven and then some]] ... and, naturally, leads to nothing but contempt from those who aren't quite as committed to the show as they are, or who (''gasp'') aren't part of the fandom at all and are sick of "don't they realize how ''important'' it is?" lectures. Naturally, any of the other listed types of Fan Dumb may find themselves ending up here. Unfortunately, this is how the vast majority of fandom is portrayed in the media, which is why [[StrawFan we have a trope specifically for that]].

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This is, although not the only type of Fan Dumb by any means, probably the most classic example of it. S/he is They are SeriousBusiness taken to the extreme. ''Nothing'' outside of the object of the fandom exists for this person, except perhaps the fandom itself. This means that they will attempt to discuss the object of their adoration every single chance they get, often attempting to twist or divert other discussions to this end, regardless of how awkward or nakedly inappropriate it is ("Yeah, it sucks that your father died; I felt exactly the same way when Captain Magnatron failed to defeat the Zargons in Episode 19"). This often leads them to exaggerate the actual significance of the work in a general context [[UpToEleven and then some]] ... and, naturally, leads to nothing but contempt from those who aren't quite as committed to the show as they are, or who (''gasp'') aren't part of the fandom at all and are sick of "don't they realize how ''important'' it is?" lectures. Naturally, any of the other listed types of Fan Dumb may find themselves ending up here. Unfortunately, this is how the vast majority of fandom is portrayed in the media, which is why [[StrawFan we have a trope specifically for that]].



The Old-Timer has been around for a very long time, maybe even since the beginning, and they won't let you forget it. They have an overdeveloped sense of entitlement, but it's based on how much time they've invested, rather than money or devotion. Because they've stuck with it over the years, they believe that they're far more important to the franchise than these kids and "Johnny-come-latelys" who have only just arrived, and resent the show changing in any way to include them. They view the franchise through a sharp NostalgiaFilter; the show is [[NostalgiaAintLikeItUsedToBe never as good as it used to be]], and any criticisms raised of the show at/before this point will be viciously rebuffed. LongRunners especially will attract Old-Timers who will resent and attempt to get rid of younger fans who had the misfortune of being born after they were. It can also happen to works that are no longer in production (classics) but still manages to attract [[PeripheryDemographic younger fans]]. Essentially, they're the [[GrumpyOldMan grumpy old men]] of the fandom constantly complaining about the good old days and shouting at the "young whippersnappers" to "get off their lawn", saying that they're too young to deserve it. Very commonly they may be found complaining about something that back in their day was a problem ... yet they complain at the lack of it now, acting like those adults who make better lives for their children yet say "back in my day we [did unpleasant action X] and we liked it." Or alternatively, if a show (or medium) tries to get some newer fans, they complain about people who [[NoTrueScotsman are not true fans]] and act like a five-year-old upset that their newborn baby sibling is getting more attention than they are. Point out to this fan that they and the members of their group are ''old'', and that a franchise that isn't able to recruit new fans to replace the dying memebers will die.

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The Old-Timer has been around for a very long time, maybe even since the beginning, and they won't let you forget it. They have an overdeveloped sense of entitlement, but it's based on how much time they've invested, rather than money or devotion. Because they've stuck with it over the years, they believe that they're far more important to the franchise than these kids and "Johnny-come-latelys" who have only just arrived, and resent the show changing in any way to include them. They view the franchise through a sharp NostalgiaFilter; the show is [[NostalgiaAintLikeItUsedToBe never as good as it used to be]], and any criticisms raised of the show at/before this point will be viciously rebuffed. LongRunners especially will attract Old-Timers who will resent and attempt to get rid of younger fans who had the misfortune of being born after they were. It can also happen to works that are no longer in production (classics) but still manages to attract [[PeripheryDemographic younger fans]]. Essentially, they're the [[GrumpyOldMan grumpy old men]] of the fandom constantly complaining about the good old days and shouting at the "young whippersnappers" to "get off their lawn", saying that they're too young to deserve it. Very commonly they may be found complaining about something that back in their day was a problem ... yet they complain at the lack of it now, acting like those adults who make better lives for their children yet say "back in my day we [did unpleasant action X] and we liked it." Or alternatively, if a show (or medium) tries to get some newer fans, they complain about people who [[NoTrueScotsman are not true fans]] and act like a five-year-old upset that their newborn baby sibling is getting more attention than they are. Point out to this fan that they and the members of their group are ''old'', and that a franchise that isn't able to recruit new fans to replace the dying memebers members will die.



This fan might express what is a healthy amount of criticism ... but ignores the chain of decay, middle management and [[ExecutiveMeddling all those who contribute to decision-making]] as an explanation to why things go poorly, instead preferring to focus his/her ire on an easily named and recognized target regardless of what their involvement in this might have actually been. This target then becomes the subject of blame for all of the things that go wrong with the show, [[MisBlamed whether they can reasonably be blamed for it or not]]. Furthermore, any failings or missteps are subsequently treated not as human error or the kind of slip-ups that any creator may encounter from time to time, but evidence that her/his target is out to spite him/her personally.

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This fan might express what is a healthy amount of criticism ... but ignores the chain of decay, middle management and [[ExecutiveMeddling all those who contribute to decision-making]] as an explanation to why things go poorly, instead preferring to focus his/her their ire on an easily named and recognized target regardless of what their involvement in this might have actually been. This target then becomes the subject of blame for all of the things that go wrong with the show, [[MisBlamed whether they can reasonably be blamed for it or not]]. Furthermore, any failings or missteps are subsequently treated not as human error or the kind of slip-ups that any creator may encounter from time to time, but evidence that her/his their target is out to spite him/her them personally.



This fan refuses to see any faults in the object of her/his love at all, even if they're staring him/her right in the face. Tends to go beyond merely liking something to an irrational state of mind where his/her appreciation of it means that it cannot possibly have any faults at all. They will also [[OpinionMyopia not realize how other people could possibly not like it]], and will likewise [[ComplainingAboutPeopleNotLikingTheShow tell them they're worthless]] for not finding it the best thing since sliced bread even though this mentality can lead to ''massive'' HypeBacklash. The Willfully Blind are fond of the QualityByPopularVote and ReviewsAreTheGospel lines of argument, often insistently referring to reviews, ratings or sales figures to support this assertion. If they encounter evidence of a flaw that even they cannot ignore, they are then likely to rationalize it with the excuse that "It's still better than [optionally, [[SturgeonsLaw ninety percent]] of] everything else" or "The rest will make up for it." When encountered here on Wiki/TVTropes, these people tend to be fond of attributing any and all criticisms to an alleged UnpleasableFanbase, as if that automatically invalidates them.

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This fan refuses to see any faults in the object of her/his their love at all, even if they're staring him/her them right in the face. Tends to go beyond merely liking something to an irrational state of mind where his/her their appreciation of it means that it cannot possibly have any faults at all. They will also [[OpinionMyopia not realize how other people could possibly not like it]], and will likewise [[ComplainingAboutPeopleNotLikingTheShow tell them they're worthless]] for not finding it the best thing since sliced bread even though this mentality can lead to ''massive'' HypeBacklash. The Willfully Blind are fond of the QualityByPopularVote and ReviewsAreTheGospel lines of argument, often insistently referring to reviews, ratings or sales figures to support this assertion. If they encounter evidence of a flaw that even they cannot ignore, they are then likely to rationalize it with the excuse that "It's still better than [optionally, [[SturgeonsLaw ninety percent]] of] everything else" or "The rest will make up for it." When encountered here on Wiki/TVTropes, these people tend to be fond of attributing any and all criticisms to an alleged UnpleasableFanbase, as if that automatically invalidates them.
24th Apr '17 9:53:40 PM PippinPops
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The Character Lover is identified through his/her fixation on a particular character appearing within the story rather than the story itself, which they then take to extremes. They often come in one of two variants:

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The Character Lover is identified through his/her their fixation on a particular character appearing within the story rather than the story itself, which they then take to extremes. They often come in one of two variants:



** '''Mad Protector''': When a Mad Bride/Groom gets a bit too overprotective, they take tips from the HateDumb. They like a character and spew bile at any other character they perceive to be mean or doing horrible things to the character. It doesn't matter if the "meanie" did mean or horrible things because it makes sense in the story, or they're just doing their job as a villain, what matters is "how dare that character be mean to my baby!" And so begins the Mad Protector's hatred to those "meanies," putting them into a disliked list, demonizing and maybe even becoming a Hate Monger for that meanie, on the basis that s/he is so mean to the character they love. Sometimes if the meanie is just exceptionally mean and universally hated, this might not look like not quite a Fan Dumb. Most of the time, though, they love to attack "meanies" with their own reasons to be mean.

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** '''Mad Protector''': When a Mad Bride/Groom gets a bit too overprotective, they take tips from the HateDumb. They like a character and spew bile at any other character they perceive to be mean or doing horrible things to the character. It doesn't matter if the "meanie" did mean or horrible things because it makes sense in the story, or they're just doing their job as a villain, what matters is "how dare that character be mean to my baby!" And so begins the Mad Protector's hatred to those "meanies," putting them into a disliked list, demonizing and maybe even becoming a Hate Monger for that meanie, on the basis that s/he is they are so mean to the character they love. Sometimes if the meanie is just exceptionally mean and universally hated, this might not look like not quite a Fan Dumb. Most of the time, though, they love to attack "meanies" with their own reasons to be mean.



This fan often seems to have no WillingSuspensionOfDisbelief, often leading them to criticize or refuse to accept plots, characters and themes that might be [[NecessaryWeasel necessary or even essential for that show or genre to function]]. S/He often appears to be a member of a PeripheryDemographic who cannot or does not wish to accept that the show is not actually aimed directly at him/her (if at all), and yet resents the fact that it is not actually aimed at him. Therefore, any complaints about how it's ''not'' aimed at her/him are legitimate complaints and considered "weaknesses." If the work in question is aimed specifically at children, expect this kind of fan to pick out dubious evidence from the work as "proof" that it is ''actually'' for adults.

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This fan often seems to have no WillingSuspensionOfDisbelief, often leading them to criticize or refuse to accept plots, characters and themes that might be [[NecessaryWeasel necessary or even essential for that show or genre to function]]. S/He They often appears appear to be a member of a PeripheryDemographic who cannot or does not wish to accept that the show is not actually aimed directly at him/her them (if at all), and yet resents the fact that it is not actually aimed at him. them. Therefore, any complaints about how it's ''not'' aimed at her/him them are legitimate complaints and considered "weaknesses." If the work in question is aimed specifically at children, expect this kind of fan to pick out dubious evidence from the work as "proof" that it is ''actually'' for adults.



The opposite of the Fandom Moral Guardian (as seen below), these fans demand that a work go DarkerAndEdgier, even when it would be to the detriment of the work. Furthermore, their idea of a darker turn is usually exceedingly puerile, devoid of nuance, and overall sophomoric and immature; instead of more complex and difficult themes, they would be ''far'' happier with unfunny anti-PC humor, gratuitous violence and bloodshed, oversexualization and adolescent-level depictions of sexuality, and [[{{Wangst}} overwrought melodrama and blind pessimism and nihilism]]. In short, they don't actually want a truly DarkerAndEdgier work, they want one that caters to their own underdeveloped, childish tastes. In practice, they are most commonly the purveyors of cringeworthy fanfics and fanart; if you spot a fanwork that has the above characteristics, you're probably witnessing one of these in action. Overly edgy and one-dimensional [[OriginalCharacter OCs]] are another dead giveaway; on the rare occasions where they make themselves known to the creators, they're probably complaining about the "kiddification" of a work or trying to insinuate that it hasn't been keeping up with the times (in spite of the fact that most of their suggestions will ''instantly'' date a work if taken seriously).

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The opposite of the Fandom Moral Guardian (as seen below), these fans demand this fan demands that a work go DarkerAndEdgier, even when it would be to the detriment of the work. Furthermore, their idea of a darker turn is usually exceedingly puerile, devoid of nuance, and overall sophomoric and immature; instead of more complex and difficult themes, they would be ''far'' happier with unfunny anti-PC humor, gratuitous violence and bloodshed, oversexualization and adolescent-level depictions of sexuality, and [[{{Wangst}} overwrought melodrama and blind pessimism and nihilism]]. In short, they don't actually want a truly DarkerAndEdgier work, they want one that caters to their own underdeveloped, childish tastes. In practice, they are most commonly the purveyors of cringeworthy fanfics and fanart; if you spot a fanwork that has the above characteristics, you're probably witnessing one of these in action. Overly edgy and one-dimensional [[OriginalCharacter OCs]] are another dead giveaway; on the rare occasions where they make themselves known to the creators, they're probably complaining about the "kiddification" of a work or trying to insinuate that it hasn't been keeping up with the times (in spite of the fact that most of their suggestions will ''instantly'' date a work if taken seriously).



These fans tend to spring up when the show goes from being a cult favorite to the mainstream. They are often prone to "I judge you if you like..." or "I judge people based on whether they have seen..." They tend to resent the influx of new fans as "plebeians" and "Johnny-come-latelys" who are infiltrating and bringing down the tone of their previously exclusive, niche little club. As an [[SmallNameBigEgo ego-stroking exercise]], they might actually try to set themselves up as an elite and attract any lickspittles and [[InternetMimic mimics]] they can find; alternatively, expect to hear a lot of whining about how the show has [[ItsPopularNowItSucks "Sold Out" or "Gone Commercial"]], whether it's true or false. Ask this person why on Earth their enjoyment of a show should be affected by the fact that some guy 2,000 miles away is also enjoying the show but without being of group X.

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These fans tend This fan tends to spring up when the show goes from being a cult favorite to the mainstream. They are often prone to "I judge you if you like..." or "I judge people based on whether they have seen..." They tend to resent the influx of new fans as "plebeians" and "Johnny-come-latelys" who are infiltrating and bringing down the tone of their previously exclusive, niche little club. As an [[SmallNameBigEgo ego-stroking exercise]], they might actually try to set themselves up as an elite and attract any lickspittles and [[InternetMimic mimics]] they can find; alternatively, expect to hear a lot of whining about how the show has [[ItsPopularNowItSucks "Sold Out" or "Gone Commercial"]], whether it's true or false. Ask this person why on Earth their enjoyment of a show should be affected by the fact that some guy 2,000 miles away is also enjoying the show but without being of group X.



Sometimes a fan's frustration towards the Fan Dumb goes full circle and [[HeWhoFightsMonsters creates its own Fan Dumb]]. A Litter-Bearer seems to [[FanHater hate his fellow fans]] to the extent that even valid criticism can be dismissed simply because it's coming from a fan and not an "approved" source like an outside critic. Convinced of the stupidity and utter worthlessness of their fellow fans, they begin to see things from such a skewed perspective that in their eyes, any disapproval from the fanbase just proves that the creator is right and the show is good. They tend to leap upon all complaints in the same fashion as the Misplaced Champion, only replacing the aggression with sneering condescension. In extreme cases, this can extend to the Litter-Bearer himself, who believes that if s/he, or any other fan, doesn't like the product, "it's fine the way it is, and if we don't like it, that's ''our'' problem." Litter-Bearers can often be identified by their liberal use of the word "we" in complaining about the fandom.

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Sometimes a fan's frustration towards the Fan Dumb goes full circle and [[HeWhoFightsMonsters creates its own Fan Dumb]]. A Litter-Bearer seems to [[FanHater hate his fellow fans]] to the extent that even valid criticism can be dismissed simply because it's coming from a fan and not an "approved" source like an outside critic. Convinced of the stupidity and utter worthlessness of their fellow fans, they begin to see things from such a skewed perspective that in their eyes, any disapproval from the fanbase just proves that the creator is right and the show is good. They tend to leap upon all complaints in the same fashion as the Misplaced Champion, only replacing the aggression with sneering condescension. In extreme cases, this can extend to the Litter-Bearer himself, who believes that if s/he, they, or any other fan, doesn't like the product, "it's fine the way it is, and if we don't like it, that's ''our'' problem." Litter-Bearers can often be identified by their liberal use of the word "we" in complaining about the fandom.
13th Feb '17 3:28:24 PM LondonKdS
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This fan is marked by an obsession with romantic relationships in a work that was never intended to be a romance. Related to the Culture Alien, they're the kind of person who, instead of criticizing the tacked-on romantic subplot, criticize the alien invasion for getting in the way of the B plot, and when called on it they refuse to take "It's not a soap opera" for an answer. They will pitch a fit possibly even [[HateDumb flounce from fandom]] if their OneTruePairing is {{Jossed}}. They may be a fanatical fan of one character or one pairing, or they may just have an uncontrollable desire to PairTheSpares or just the entire cast with little logical reason. They take crack pairings seriously and will never shut up about it. Either way, there is no situation where romance is too frivolous, inappropriate, or downright creepy for them.

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This fan is marked by an obsession with romantic relationships in a work that was never intended to be a romance. Related to the Culture Alien, they're the kind of person who, instead of criticizing the tacked-on romantic subplot, criticize the alien invasion for getting in the way of the B plot, and when called on it they refuse to take "It's not a soap opera" for an answer. They will pitch a fit possibly even [[HateDumb flounce from fandom]] if their OneTruePairing is {{Jossed}}. If their favorite pairing is same-sex, they may well launch a campaign for "LGBT representation" that is suspiciously narrowly focused on "make that one pairing with the two hot actors canon". They may be a fanatical fan of one character or one pairing, or they may just have an uncontrollable desire to PairTheSpares or just the entire cast with little logical reason. They take crack pairings seriously and will never shut up about it. Either way, there is no situation where romance is too frivolous, inappropriate, or downright creepy for them.
19th Dec '16 2:14:53 AM DoctorNemesis
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Although a Fan Dumb often holds idiosyncratic views about the show and demonstrates a passionate interest in it, it is important to note that neither controversial views or intense interest are themselves indication of Fan Dumb; differing viewpoints are inevitable in a large gathering of people (and kneejerk objection to a differing opinion simply because it's a differing opinion is often a good sign that you belong in Fan Dumb yourself), and most people join fandoms in the first place ''because'' they're [[SeriousBusiness passionate about something]] and they want to celebrate it with other people who find it special. Many people manage to hold contrary or passionately enthusiastic viewpoints whilst still remaining civil and decent; similarly, many dismissed as Fan Dumb hold views that, on the surface, are actually quite reasonable. The problem with Fan Dumb is not necessarily the level of interest or the viewpoint, but the way it is expressed; even a reasonable argument will sound insane if it's being screamed in someone's face.

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Although a Fan Dumb often holds idiosyncratic views about the show and demonstrates a passionate interest in it, it is important to note that neither controversial views or nor intense interest are themselves necessarily indication of Fan Dumb; differing Dumb in and of themselves. Differing viewpoints are inevitable in a large gathering of people (and kneejerk objection to a differing opinion simply because it's a differing opinion is often a good sign that you belong in Fan Dumb yourself), and most people join fandoms in the first place ''because'' they're [[SeriousBusiness passionate about something]] and they want to celebrate it with other people who find it special. Many people manage to hold contrary or passionately enthusiastic viewpoints whilst still remaining civil and decent; similarly, many dismissed as Fan Dumb hold views that, on the surface, are actually quite reasonable. The problem with Fan Dumb is not necessarily the level of interest or the viewpoint, but the way it is expressed; even a reasonable argument will sound insane if it's being screamed in someone's face.
2nd Dec '16 11:09:23 AM HasturHasturHastur
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The opposite of the Fandom Moral Guardian (as seen below), these fans demand that a work go DarkerAndEdgier, even when it would be to the detriment of the work. Furthermore, their idea of a darker turn is usually exceedingly puerile, devoid of nuance, and overall sophomoric and immature; instead of more complex and difficult themes, they would be ''far'' happier with unfunny anti-PC humor, gratuitous violence and bloodshed, oversexualization and adolescent-level depictions of sexuality, and [[{{Wangst}} overwrought melodrama and blind pessimism and nihilism]]. In short, they don't actually want a truly DarkerAndEdgier work, they want one that caters to their own underdeveloped, childish tastes. In practice, they are most commonly the purveyors of cringeworthy fanfics and fanart; if you spot a fanwork that has the above characteristics, you're probably witnessing one of these in action. Overly edgy and one-dimensional [[OriginalCharacter OCs]] is another dead giveaway; on the rare occasions where they make themselves known to the creators, they're probably bitching about the "pussification" of a work or trying to insinuate that it hasn't been keeping up with the times (in spite of the fact that most of their suggestions will ''instantly'' date a work if taken seriously).

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The opposite of the Fandom Moral Guardian (as seen below), these fans demand that a work go DarkerAndEdgier, even when it would be to the detriment of the work. Furthermore, their idea of a darker turn is usually exceedingly puerile, devoid of nuance, and overall sophomoric and immature; instead of more complex and difficult themes, they would be ''far'' happier with unfunny anti-PC humor, gratuitous violence and bloodshed, oversexualization and adolescent-level depictions of sexuality, and [[{{Wangst}} overwrought melodrama and blind pessimism and nihilism]]. In short, they don't actually want a truly DarkerAndEdgier work, they want one that caters to their own underdeveloped, childish tastes. In practice, they are most commonly the purveyors of cringeworthy fanfics and fanart; if you spot a fanwork that has the above characteristics, you're probably witnessing one of these in action. Overly edgy and one-dimensional [[OriginalCharacter OCs]] is are another dead giveaway; on the rare occasions where they make themselves known to the creators, they're probably bitching complaining about the "pussification" "kiddification" of a work or trying to insinuate that it hasn't been keeping up with the times (in spite of the fact that most of their suggestions will ''instantly'' date a work if taken seriously).
27th Nov '16 1:39:43 PM WillBGood
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This fan refuses to see any faults in the object of her/his love at all, even if they're staring him/her right in the face. Tends to go beyond merely liking something to an irrational state of mind where his/her appreciation of it means that it cannot possibly have any faults at all. They will also [[OpinionMyopia not realize how other people could possibly not like it]], and will likewise [[ComplainingAboutPeopleNotLikingTheShow tell them they're worthless for not finding it the best thing since sliced bread]] even though this mentality can lead to ''massive'' HypeBacklash. The Willfully Blind are fond of the QualityByPopularVote and ReviewsAreTheGospel lines of argument, often insistently referring to reviews, ratings or sales figures to support this assertion. If they encounter evidence of a flaw that even they cannot ignore, they are then likely to rationalize it with the excuse that "It's still better than [optionally, [[SturgeonsLaw ninety percent]] of] everything else" or "The rest will make up for it'. When encountered here on ''Wiki/TVTropes'', these people tend to be fond of attributing any and all criticisms to an alleged UnpleasableFanbase, as if that automatically invalidates them.

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This fan refuses to see any faults in the object of her/his love at all, even if they're staring him/her right in the face. Tends to go beyond merely liking something to an irrational state of mind where his/her appreciation of it means that it cannot possibly have any faults at all. They will also [[OpinionMyopia not realize how other people could possibly not like it]], and will likewise [[ComplainingAboutPeopleNotLikingTheShow tell them they're worthless worthless]] for not finding it the best thing since sliced bread]] bread even though this mentality can lead to ''massive'' HypeBacklash. The Willfully Blind are fond of the QualityByPopularVote and ReviewsAreTheGospel lines of argument, often insistently referring to reviews, ratings or sales figures to support this assertion. If they encounter evidence of a flaw that even they cannot ignore, they are then likely to rationalize it with the excuse that "It's still better than [optionally, [[SturgeonsLaw ninety percent]] of] everything else" or "The rest will make up for it'. it." When encountered here on ''Wiki/TVTropes'', Wiki/TVTropes, these people tend to be fond of attributing any and all criticisms to an alleged UnpleasableFanbase, as if that automatically invalidates them.
27th Nov '16 1:38:48 PM WillBGood
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This type of fan is someone who complains about a flaw or something in the work, only, when it's remedied, to find something else to complain about, pull one of the ItSucks cards on it, or simply insist that the improved version or a sequel that fixes the flaws is "not a true entry" '''''ILikedItBetterWhenItSucked because''''' [[ILikedItBetterWhenItSucked it fixed the flaw(s)]]. This form of Fan Dumb is so prevalent that it got its very own trope see UnpleasableFanbase. Especially commonly overlaps with the '''Old-Timer'''.

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This type of fan is someone who complains about a flaw or something in the work, only, when it's remedied, to find something else to complain about, pull one of the ItSucks cards on it, or simply insist that the improved version or a sequel that fixes the flaws is "not a true entry" '''''ILikedItBetterWhenItSucked because''''' '''''because''''' [[ILikedItBetterWhenItSucked it fixed the flaw(s)]]. This form of Fan Dumb is so prevalent that it got its very own trope see UnpleasableFanbase. Especially commonly overlaps with the '''Old-Timer'''.
27th Nov '16 1:38:28 PM WillBGood
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This type of fan is someone who complains about a flaw or something in the work, only, when it's remedied, to find something else to complain about, pull one of the ItSucks cards on it, or simply [[ILikedItBetterWhenItSucked insist that the improved version or a sequel that fixes the flaws is "not a true entry"]] '''''[[ILikedItBetterWhenItSucked because]]''''' [[ILikedItBetterWhenItSucked it fixed the flaw(s)]]. This form of Fan Dumb is so prevalent that it got its very own trope see UnpleasableFanbase. Especially commonly overlaps with the '''Old-Timer'''.

to:

This type of fan is someone who complains about a flaw or something in the work, only, when it's remedied, to find something else to complain about, pull one of the ItSucks cards on it, or simply [[ILikedItBetterWhenItSucked insist that the improved version or a sequel that fixes the flaws is "not a true entry"]] '''''[[ILikedItBetterWhenItSucked because]]''''' entry" '''''ILikedItBetterWhenItSucked because''''' [[ILikedItBetterWhenItSucked it fixed the flaw(s)]]. This form of Fan Dumb is so prevalent that it got its very own trope see UnpleasableFanbase. Especially commonly overlaps with the '''Old-Timer'''.



This fan loves something to such a powerful extreme that they constantly feel that it's threatened by a franchise [[DuelingShows competing]] [[DuelingMovies against it]]. Thus, they feel they ''must'' defend it at all costs, even if it means starting a war. Even if the other franchise has a friendly [[FandomRivalry rivalry]] with it (and even if the two franchises overlap in some way), the two franchises being compared with each other at all is simply too much for the warmonger. They will go out of their way to bash the competing franchise and attack its fans, using their passionate love for a certain franchise as a weapon by citing how much more successful/popular/well-reviewed/enduring it is in comparison (they will then [[HypocriticalFandom hypocritically take offence to being fired back at by the opposing fandom]]). They will also push away any fans that happen to like both the franchise they like and the competing one simultaneously, because they regard that as betrayal. [[SarcasmMode How dare they like both! You can't like Thing X and Thing Y at the same time! They should be enemies!]]

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This fan loves something to such a powerful extreme that they constantly feel that it's threatened by a franchise [[DuelingShows competing]] [[DuelingMovies against it]]. Thus, they feel they ''must'' defend it at all costs, even if it means starting a war. Even if the other franchise has a friendly [[FandomRivalry rivalry]] with it (and even if the two franchises overlap in some way), the two franchises being compared with each other at all is simply too much for the warmonger. They will go out of their way to bash the competing franchise and attack its fans, using their passionate love for a certain franchise as a weapon by citing how much more successful/popular/well-reviewed/enduring it is in comparison (they will then [[HypocriticalFandom hypocritically take offence offense to being fired back at by the opposing fandom]]). They will also push away any fans that happen to like both the franchise they like and the competing one simultaneously, because they regard that as betrayal. [[SarcasmMode How dare they like both! You can't like Thing X and Thing Y at the same time! They should be enemies!]]
27th Nov '16 1:37:11 PM WillBGood
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This type of fan is someone who complains about a flaw or something in the work, only, when it's remedied, to find something else to complain about, pull one of the ItSucks cards on it, or simply [[ILikedItBetterWhenItSucked insist that the improved version or a sequel that fixes the flaws is "not a true entry']] '''''[[ILikedItBetterWhenItSucked because]]''''' [[ILikedItBetterWhenItSucked it fixed the flaw(s)]]. This form of Fan Dumb is so prevalent that it got its very own trope see UnpleasableFanbase. Especially commonly overlaps with the '''Old-Timer'''.

to:

This type of fan is someone who complains about a flaw or something in the work, only, when it's remedied, to find something else to complain about, pull one of the ItSucks cards on it, or simply [[ILikedItBetterWhenItSucked insist that the improved version or a sequel that fixes the flaws is "not a true entry']] entry"]] '''''[[ILikedItBetterWhenItSucked because]]''''' [[ILikedItBetterWhenItSucked it fixed the flaw(s)]]. This form of Fan Dumb is so prevalent that it got its very own trope see UnpleasableFanbase. Especially commonly overlaps with the '''Old-Timer'''.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Main.FanDumb