Literature Tales Of Mu Discussion

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zeel
Topic
11:06:12 AM Mar 4th 2015
Is there a reason all the characters are listed and described on the main page rather than a characters sub-page? There are more than enough character related examples to flesh one out.
SeptimusHeap
12:16:05 PM Mar 4th 2015
I am guessing because nobody has started a character page, yet.
zeel
09:50:48 PM Mar 4th 2015
Working on one then, at [1] for now. I have Mackenzie done.
zeel
03:22:40 PM Mar 5th 2015
And the initial version is up. So far it's only the same characters that were listed on the work's page, but I intend to add more.
SeptimusHeap
03:37:04 PM Mar 5th 2015
I've cutlisted the sandbox. I presume it can be removed now, yes?
zeel
04:46:29 PM Mar 5th 2015
Yep, no longer needed.
Willbyr
06:07:51 PM Mar 5th 2015
edited by Willbyr
All the tropes that are now on the character page need to be removed from the work page; there's no reason for the duplication.
zeel
12:35:11 AM Mar 6th 2015
Examples removed.
Willbyr
Topic
11:33:45 AM Aug 1st 2014
edited by 150.148.14.5
This needs to be re-written:

  • Can't Argue with Elves: Hilariously subverted. The elves are immortal, wise, good at EVERYTHING and generally peaceful, but also arrogant as all get out and often absolutely batshit insane, especially when it comes to sexual matters (it is considered fairly rational elven behavior for a young elf to castrate the lover of a rival just to spite them, for example). They resent the weariness of their too-perfect lives and usually end up killing themselves. The major half-elf character in the story hates her heritage and everything to do with it.
    • It should be noted with Steff that she views herself as being an ugly talentless clod who looks about as much like a real woman (she's trans) as Sailor Bubba does, while Mack and her friends all see her as impossible graceful and artistically talented and it takes Mack and several other characters a long time to actually figure out that Steff isn't biologically female. This is explicitly stated to be caused by Steff being raised by elves, by whose standards she IS a clumsy talentless drag queen.
    • It should also be noted that most elves we see in the series are in the elven equivalent to their twenties, which are noted as being abnormally sociopathic in their dealings with pretty much everyone.
    • The main character Mackenzie Blaise has this viewpoint about some of her friends (notably Dee and Amaranth), seeing them as being inherently purer because of their species (dark elf and nymph, in this case), although that probably has something to do with how Mack thinks of herself as being inherently corrupted because of her half-demon heritage (which has some support in the story). Whether or not the reader is supposed to feel that any one race is supposed to be inherently better than others is hard to tell—we certainly see faults with all of them as the story goes on.
    • Merfolk in the MUniverse feel themselves to be inherently superior to all land species, although they don't really advertise this. However, as Mack discovers, it is rather hard to argue with them about this belief, as they on principle dismiss arguments from prey. To them, any land creature in water is food and no longer has a right to be considered a sentient being.
Willbyr
Topic
09:21:08 AM Jul 8th 2014
Moving these here to be redefined/moved to a new trope:

  • Rape Is Love:
    • Puddy, frequently. Groping Mack in public in less-than-gentle ways is just the start.
    • Hazel.
    • Leda plays into this, though it's more a "rape as compliment" thing.

Willbyr
Topic
04:52:40 PM Dec 4th 2013
edited by 198.228.216.163
I'm namespacing the Main/ links and doing some crosswicking while I'm at it. Anything that I'm not certain whether it fits or not, is a Zero-Context Example, or seems poorly written will be posted here.

  • Affably Evil — (this): "Few people mistake a noble dragon for a nice one more than once."
  • Apologizes a Lot — Dee is anything but a Dojikko, but she apologizes at the drop of a cowl.
  • Arbitrary Skepticism — Jamie from More Tales Of MU has a habit of dismissing as ludicrous rumors that readers of the main story know to be true.
  • Artistic License Economics — Delvers" (adventurers) have one of the highest tax-liabilities in the Imperium, but delving gear is tax-deductible. This encourages delvers to keep most of their wealth in the form of high-end magic items rather than simply flooding the economy with excess gold.
  • Embarrassing Tattoo — Mackenzie lets Amaranth write "Nymph's Toy" on her forehead in magical marker (like permanent marker, apparently, except that you can't wash it off or get rid of it by anything but magic (or, presumably, self-mutilation). Naturally, this happens right before they head out to the college town for the first time; Mackenzie very quickly goes from acting naturally about it (because she forgot it was there) to being mortified once she realizes why everyone is staring at her.
  • Fantastic Aesop — While prejudices exist against most non-human species in a manner clearly resembling real racism, a few of those discriminated against are literal man-eaters by dietary preference or culture. (Though nobody dares to discriminate against dragons on this basis.)
  • Fantastic Arousal — For Shirelings, it's strongly implied to be the feet.
  • Fatal Family Photo — Steff lampshades this in chapter 495 when Mack mentions that she prefers the stories of individuals in history to the stories of big battles, in reference to the games of Stone Soldiers Steff, Ian, Shiel, and Dee are playing.
    So give the little people names and make sure you have one of them tell the others about his girl back home just before you move them into arbalest range,[...]
  • Four-Temperament Ensemble — Mack (melancholic), Amaranth (sanguine), Steff (choleric), and Two (phlegmatic). Ian and Dee are both strong candidates for leukine.
  • Freudian Excuse: Steff.
    Don't you think I've earned a chance to be the one at the top of the shitheap for a while? Three more years and then nobody's going to fuck with me, ever again.
  • Hair-Trigger Temper:
  • Heroic Self-Deprecation — Mackenzie abhors violence, to the point that she'd rather die or get raped than risk hurting her attacker. Her compassion, empathy, and acceptance are borderline Messianic. She abjectly refuses to believe she is anything but irredeemably evil.
    • Well yeah, you get a lot of that drilled into your head when your father is a demon and your caretaker is a demon hunter. Not to mention that she has more Berserk Buttons than Bruce Banner.
  • Jerkass Gods — Lord Khersis once smote a confused little girl who was praying to him for guidance just because she was half-demon. And he's one of the nicer deities.
  • Immortality Bisexuality — Elves commonly use homosexuality as a form of birth control.
  • Immortal Procreation Clause — Elves are true immortals in terms of lifespan, and generally quite sexually potent as part of their being better than everybody. They keep their birth rate low by doing things that don't produce children.
  • Informed Ability — Amaranth seems to border on having Informed Flaws. Word of God is that if the author had wanted to write a Mary Sue, it would have been Amaranth without the flaws. The problem is that while Amaranth's perspective on some matters is clearly skewed, her actual effect on the storyline is always extremely positive.
    • Indeed, even her informed flaws are that she's not quite perfect. She's not quite as genius-level smart as she thinks she is, she's not quite perfectly adjusted, and she's not quite as sensitive and empathetic as someone perfect would be. Saying Amaranth has flaws is like saying that an M&M is less chocolatey than a Hershey's Kiss.
  • Mind Over Manners — Played straight with the telepathic priestess Dee. Subverted with "delicate blossom" Violet, who was raised by hippies and has no sense of boundaries.
  • Pay Evil unto Evil — A politicized kobold gets to put the case against "delving and discovery" (i.e. dungeon raiding) in Tales of MU. Magisterius University does, of course, have a big D&D faculty.
  • Wacky College
  • Wrong Context Magic — The story runs on this, where the laws of magic will change if they detect someone trying to figure them out. In-universe, science is a heavily discredited pseudo-, uh, science, much like people who believe in All-Natural Snake Oil in the real world. How, then, does the heavy use of Magitek work, in-universe? Carefully. Examining a complex spell too closely can break it. Since the local equivalent of television works in a way that no one believes should work, people are afraid to look too deeply into why for fear that it suddenly won't.
nogard8910
Topic
09:09:43 PM Jul 31st 2011
As Mack's father is referred to as The Man by the author, it sounds to me like it's better to use that than the fanon name Mack Daddy.
Willbyr
Topic
06:14:18 AM Mar 23rd 2011
I can't remember if the story actually says, so: Are Maliko, Suzi, and Kai Petting Zoo People or Funny Animals?
Magus
02:06:10 PM Apr 10th 2011
Most likely the former.
Willbyr
Topic
08:49:25 PM Mar 1st 2011
Per the last edit...if there's an alcohol-related trope that this could fit better, let's use it.

  • Wall Banger — Mackenzie is a serious lightweight, and becomes very plastered very quickly — literally falling-down drunk — when she drinks. But when the plot requires it, she's completely capable of perfectly clear-headed logical and moral reasoning, reaching the correct conclusion only moments before passing out. I wish I could do that!

NXTangl
04:21:27 PM Mar 10th 2011
I don't actually know, but I would like to add a Justification for posterity (since it isn't on YMMV anymore)

Willbyr
Topic
11:08:47 AM Aug 1st 2010
There needs to be a Show Within a Show entry about Mack's cycle warriors and Sooni's shoujo series...I'd do it but I don't have the time right now and I don't remember enough details about either.
Willbyr
Topic
06:44:39 AM Jul 23rd 2010
edited by Willbyr
Per the last edit: The site's admin is really starting to crack down on use of first person and This Troper material in main pages, so if you see it anywhere in the page(s) you're looking at and have the time, please take a moment and cull it out.
Semiapies
Topic
05:50:55 PM May 22nd 2010
edited by Semiapies
To answer your question in last edit explanation, Willbyr, I do think "MUniverse" is correct.
Willbyr
07:53:31 PM Jun 3rd 2010
Oh...heh, took me a second. I was actually asking if I'd spelled Callahan's real name right. :-)
70.140.21.227
Topic
12:11:00 PM May 17th 2010
From all I've seen on the archived discussion for this article, don't you think Het Is Ew is arguably justifiable for this article?
Willbyr
05:12:40 PM May 22nd 2010
Not necessarily...it's not a focal point, to be sure, but Ian's relationship with Mack is still there, just buried under all the other stuff going on right now.
Semiapies
05:54:15 PM May 22nd 2010
And buried under the super-Comic-Book Time of the series. I don't think it's been five days since Mack was last over at his dorm.
70.140.21.227
07:30:25 PM Jun 3rd 2010
Hmm, I see. My opinion's kind of biased as the only sexual encounter of there's I've read is when she was ordered to give Ian a blowjob. Compared to how 'divine' the S&M RP between her and Amaranth is shown to be, Mack and Ian's sex was awkward, clumsy, and for the most part unsatisfying, with seething resentment from both sides. I dunno how their relationship develops in later chapters, but Ian so far to me has seemed to be a Take That of the stereotypical heterosexual college loser. Thats just me though
Semiapies
01:11:17 AM Jun 5th 2010
You may be a ways back in the story; Mack and Ian have worked out how to have a much better sex life.
Scherzo09
01:02:44 PM Jan 31st 2011
Well, Het Is Ew is more than just thinking being heterosexual is bad; its about portraying people who have 'normal' sex lives (Monogamous, vanilla sex) as being somehow 'repressed'.
Willbyr
Topic
09:47:24 PM Apr 16th 2010
Which would be more appropriate for Mack Daddy - Affably Evil or Evilly Affable?
Taelor
08:24:26 AM Apr 17th 2010
I thin you could probably make a strong case for either. Right now, I don't think we really know enough about him or his motivations to say one way or the other.
Semiapies
04:23:49 PM Apr 17th 2010
I think Affably Evil, as Evilly Affable is "we see this character doing horrible things, but we like him". He's manipulative as Hell (rim shot, please), but we never see Mack Daddy doing much that's blatantly evil, and he is, well, affable.
Willbyr
07:32:50 PM Apr 17th 2010
That's what I was thinking...I started to put it in as Affably Evil but thought I'd better get some opinions. I'll put it in, with some clarifications.
Semiapies
08:19:49 PM Apr 17th 2010
Good deal.
Semiapies
Topic
05:11:14 AM Mar 7th 2010
edited by Semiapies
To quote Ki TA: 'Criticisms of the work are appropriate; Criticisms of the author are appropriate when worded properly in specific tropes. "She pretty much bans anyone who disagrees with her about anything" doesn't hit that watermark.'

Oy. Well, this could be an entirely new person who's shown up obsessed with Alexandra Erin, how she's "famous" for banning people from her forums, and how anyone who disagrees with this person using the wiki as an avenue for personal attack is just trying to hide the truth. Or someone could have remembered when I pointed out that he was pretending to be entirely different people posting from the same IP. *shrug*

The Schedule Slip example as it now stands is correct, though. I don't believe Erin has managed more than two Tales of MU posts a week at any point since medical problems back in mid-2009. Usually it's been one per week, with occasional updates of Other Tales of MU and missed weeks.
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