I'm requesting that the following entries be added to Sui-Feng's trope list:
- Full-Contact Magic/MagicEnhancement: In the Official Bootleg, Soi Fon's Shunko is described as an advanced technique which drives kido into her arms and legs, greatly enhancing her striking power and resiliency. And, as seen in her fight with her former mentor, Yoruichi, it also allows her channel it into concentrated burts of energy!
- Pint-Sized Powerhouse: At only 4'11, she's one of the shortest characters in the manga. Despite her diminutive size, she can withstand surprising amounts of physical punishment, and is capable of moving large slabs of debris with minimal effort.
- This becomes even more the case when she activates her Shunko, which increases her physical strength and resilience by a considerable margin. In the anime only "Zanpukto Rebellion" arc, she used it to go toe-to-toe with Tenkken
, even though the latter was better than three times her size!
- This becomes even more the case when she activates her Shunko, which increases her physical strength and resilience by a considerable margin. In the anime only "Zanpukto Rebellion" arc, she used it to go toe-to-toe with Tenkken
- Power-Strain Blackout: Her bankai puts tremendous strain on her reiatsu to use. So much so, that it usually takes her three days to recover sufficiently before she can safely use it again. When she fought Barragan she was forced to fire a second shot, within minutes of firing the first, and lost consciousness as a result.
I've tried adding them myself, but the page is too big, and loads indefinitely when I try to edit it. Which is why I'm requesting someone else make the additions. Thank you.
Edited by 216.99.32.44
I think things like Axe-Crazy and Stepford Smiler ought to be spoilered out in regards to Unohana. You can do that with certain tropes, normally ones having to do with real twists like betrayal or death. This seems to be a similar case because it completely contrasts with her perceived personality.
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Agreed. Also, according to the Handling Spoilers page :
- Spoiling new stuff is generally frowned upon, but sticking an entire example behind a spoiler isn't much better. For internationally known series which have not been aired or legally released yet to their major secondary markets (some anime, for example), go ahead and tag it — once it's circulated enough that it's no longer a spoiler, Wiki Magic will do the rest.
These chapters are not released yet in the US (and, well, the anime was put on hiatus). Therefore, it would be best to hide those tropes under spoiler tags. Though, like it was said, there shouldn't be white lines everywhere (though, in these cases, it's not like we have a choice).
Edited by NonoRobot
If there's absolutely no other way to word it, so the spoilers have to cover the tags, I'll go along with it. I just thought too many were beginning to build up.
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Unohana: lady of war or not? I think her elegant swordsmanship and overall gracefulness in chapter 524 makes her worthy of the title. One troper seems to disagree and deleted my changes, reason being that she is basically a thug. Well, she is technically a Captain of Soul Society's military is she not? Besides, when did being a. crimminal disqualify one from being a lady of war?
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Let's just check if she fits the trope :
- Female Fighter: Check.
- Retains an air of grace and reserve not usually associated with violence (aka Proper Lady): Kiiinda check. Based on her personality during 95% of Bleach, she fits. The problem would come from the way she acts now. She is like a coin: she has two sides. Both co-exist.
- Highly placed (The Ojou): She's not a princess, but she's a very respected (and feared) captain (and one of the most ancient, to boot). Check.
- Not held up as a sex symbol like many female characters, and not paired with the protagonist: Check.
- Use an elegant weapon: Her zankaputoo fits. Check.
- More often a Fragile Speedster or a Glass Canon, though Jack of All Stats and Mighty Glacier examples exist: Well, Unohana may be a Lightning Bruiser. But, overall, I don't think that being eventually this stop her from fitting this criteria, which is very large in itself.
- Silk Hiding Steel type: Check.
On top of all of this, she's unusually The Medic. Overall, I think she fits the trope, though we need to make the distinction between her two different personalities.
Not at all. Lady of war is about grace during battle whereas when she's fighting she's supposed to be a vicious thug. She's called a vicious criminal and she got a major art style shift to make her creepier.
No, I agree with Nono. Usually, she's a Lady of War, but in this fight, she's showing a different side. That's all.
But this is basically her only fight in the entire series and it basically exists to say 'Remember how warm and motherly she looked before? It's a bunch of shit. She's vicious.'
You aren't a lady of war unless you're graceful and elegant while actually fighting. Unohana is basically Kenpachi while fighting. That's why she's the first Kenpachi.
It's only a different side of herself. She's still acting with more poise and reserve than your usual Blood Knight. She's still speaking politely, and still showing a very proper and stoic smile. These three pages emphasize the contrast between herself and Kenpachi thus far.
As I said, she's only showing a second side of her duplicitous nature.
She's not acting with significantly more reserve than your average blood knight. More than Kenpachi, sure, but what of it? Honestly, she started this fight by saying "Yes, we are only differentiated from the basest of villains by the fact that our teammates point us at people they like even less." Nice people don't say that. Graceful people don't dice you up with a sword and scathing words and then heal you so they can do it again and again. Elegant people don't talk happily about how their wounds ache whenever they hear someone speak.
You might call her a subversion but she sure as hell isn't a straight example.
Nice people don't say that? By whose rules? I personally say a person who freely admits their own hangups is rather nice. So what?
Her actions are only passive-aggressively hostile, and half of what she says is meant to rile Kenpachi up in the first place. Her internal monologue is a lot more thoughtful than her actions imply. furthermore, it's nigh-impossible to tell how graceful she's being just from still pictures alone, and there's absolutely nothing saying that they don't "dice you up". Especially since her entire purpose right now seems to be pushing Kenpachi to get stronger. I don't doubt that she's getting ample satisfaction from the battle, but that only makes her zig-zag of the trope, at worst.
She was smiling when she said that. She wasn't admitting a flaw. It's like she was sharing a joke with Kenpachi and the joke was on Soul Society.
Also, she's pushing Kenpachi by acting like the kind of bloodthirsty maniac he wants to face off against. So, again, she is not a straight example. The story says 'Unohana is being bloodthirsty' and then she cuts him up. The entire point of all this is how much it contrasts with how she normally behaves. She might be a technically skilled fighter, she might normally act all motherly and supportive, but right now she's using that technical expertise to butcher Kenpachi until he gets strong enough.
So what if she was smiling? It's not like telling a joke AND admitting a fault are mutually exclusive. If it were, Black Dude White Dude humor and Self-Deprecation wouldn't exist.
And again, so what if she is? Being bloodthirsty doesn't disqualify you from the trope. As I said, her words are passive-aggressive, her actions are composed, and it's only when she's trying to rile Kenpachi up that she really acts aggressive. I'm not seeing anything that justifies why this disqualifies her. She's a zig-zag or a double subversion at worst.
How about this: For now, why don't we just call her a Girly Bruiser and call it a day?
Edited by KingZeal
@Arha: You wrote "Unohana is basically Kenpachi while fighting". I respectfully disagree wholeheartly with you on that point. Kenpachi just smacks his sword at his opponent, delivering numerous blows like a madman, sometimes without even aiming (not to mention not even dodging, like in his duel against Nnoitra, where he finally wises up enough to stop screwing around). In chapter 524, Unohana delivers numerous precise blows to Kenpachi (to his neck, twice, and shoulder) and dodge with ease. Her fighting-style is nothing like Kenpachi's.
She was a thug (and acknowledged it): that doesn't mean she fights like him. Her character grew since the time she was the first Kenpachi: she became the captain of the 4th division, the division dedicated to healing people - things must have happened to push her to forsake her killing spree as the first Kenpachi. We don't know yet if she did that in order to find redemption for her past acts, or for an another reason entirely. She fell back into her "first Kenpachi persona" in order to make him want to fight her. Like King Zeal wrote, her inner monologue is suggesting that there's something more.
Nono: You're looking at it superficially. Yes, Kenpachi uses no skill whatsoever while fighting while Unohana is a master at it. She also dodges attacks sure. But the way in which she is fighting is too brutal to be considered graceful.
Also, her inner monologue means nothing for this. What matter is how she carries herself during a fight. Yeah, she probably doesn't really like the whole blood knight thing much anymore. She was pretty upset when that Zero squad doctor guy told her to get back to fighting. However, when she is fighting, she does not show that attitude.
So again, if you're going to call her a lady of war, you are really missing the point of all this. The point is that her ladylike attitude goes out the window when it's time to fight. She's either not an example or a subversion.
Again, according to who? Who is defining what is "brutal" and "graceful" here? Where's the standard?
And her inner monologue means everything, because it casts her actions in a different light. And even then, her words are more passive-aggressive than outright biting.
There is nothing here that says "unladylike" at all.
Edited by KingZeal
Nowhere in the trope description of Lady of War is it mentionned that the Lady in question must fight "gracefully". The only requirement when it comes to the fighting-style comes from the weapon, which must "emphasizes her feminity". The closest trope in which the character must fight gracefully (that I know of) is the Dance Battler. Otherwise, many examples in the Lady of War trope page wouldn't be there (Balalaika from Black Lagoon is actually kinda similar to Unohana in some ways). And where you see that Unohana's style is brutal, all I see is an efficient battlestyle (once again, her battlestyle is nothing like Kenpachi's, the latter being brutal). Please note that her uniform isn't soaked in (Kenpachi) blood: she fits the "avoid getting her hands dirty" part of the trope.
It does say she has an "air of grace and reserve". That doesn't say she needs to fight gracefully, but that she carries herself tht way. And even now, she still qualifies. Even when insulting Kenpachi, she does so in a very reserve manner, and even when attacking, she is very swift and deliberate. "Graceful" at this point is coming down to semantics.
It's according to her. It's also according to the large amount of bloodshed and the swiftness with which she 'killed' him. It's also according to the fact that she's the first Kenpachi.
Also, her words are basically filled with contempt.
Basically, the Lady of War is a female fighter who retains an air of grace and reserve not usually associated with violence.
The first line. She's hacking him to bits, she gives off psycho smirks, she nearly croons about how her wound aches when Kenpachi speaks. Also, 'not getting your hands dirty' doesn't mean your hands and body stay physically clean, it means you avoid doing the 'dirty work.' Unohana is a killer. That's dirty work. Her swordsmanship is meant to kill the enemy. You don't refer to yourself as one of the worst criminals in Soul Society's history if you don't get your hands dirty.
Edited by Arha
The bloodshed and swiftness in which she killed him actually put a point IN the "grace" scale, not against it.
She's not "hacking him to bits". That's hyperbole. She's attacking with swiftness and precision. Then she stands reserved and poised and waits for him to make a move. That's part of the trope, too.
And that last part is flat out wrong. The trope page is completely talking about avoiding being dirtied or bloodied in battle, in other words, avoiding hits. You know, like she's doing now.
A Lady of War is almost always given an elegant weapon that emphasizes her femininity — often a bow, rapier or naginata, all weapons that have a certain choreographic element in the way they're wielded. They also allow her to avoid getting her hands dirty and usually invoke Wouldn't Hit a Girl as a result.
She also has a "choreographed element" in the way she wields her sword. That is, after all, the entire POINT of how she's teaching Kenpachi. The entire point to all of this is that she is teaching him a proper sword style.
Edited by KingZeal
"Avoid doing the dirty work" ? What do you mean by that ? Because if "fighting/killing" is the "dirty work", then I guess we have to clean all of the Lady of War page. Being a killer or not doesn't prevent a character from fitting into the trope's criterias. You are only focusing on what Unohana was, not who she is now. Her character is more complex than the psychotic facade she wore during chapter 523 (and 524 shows that there is more than she let on: during most of the chapter, her face is calm and collected, zig-zagging between an air of sadness and disappointment, expect page 13, where she becomes angry). She only gives psycho smirks in order to push Zaraki to fight her: this isn't her default expression.
Hacking him to bits is pointing out that she's efficient and brutal.
Do you really think Unohana is going to come out of this unscathed? She's going to continue to cut Kenpachi up until he manages to get her. She's a brawler and a power fighter.
I really don't know why you don't get this. She is not ladylike when she fights. At all. She looks significantly less feminine when fighting than she does when just walking around.
^ What's important is how she's fighting now. Also, avoiding the dirty work in a fight often involves not inflicting lethal, bloody injuries.
Edited by Arha
You're making up the rules. Once again, if your description of the "dirty work" applied to the trope, we would have to wipe clean the entire Lady of War trope page. Being a lady of war doesn't mean that you don't inflict lethal or bloody injuries, at all.
No, but it does that the fighting is less violent looking. This is VERY violent looking.
Also, is this argument going anywhere? You two obviously aren't going to change your minds and I'm not going to either.
It doesn't say that anywhere on the page. Besides that, she is NOT brawling with Kenpachi. She's not taking his hits blow for blow. When she can, she's dodging or deflecting them. If she were tanking them, you'd have an argument.
Oh and how nice to know you have no intention of changing your mind. You should have just said that from the beginning.
You have no intention of changing your mind either. Not all my edits are perfect and I admit that. For example, someone put up Retired Monster for Yamamoto and Unohana and I took it down. It was clarified and readded and I decided it could stay. However, this is a case where I feel you simply do not understand the trope in question.
So, again, it's either not an example or it's a subversion.
Edited by Arha
I'm perfectly fine with changing my mind if the argument is valid. I haven't found any of yours to be valid.
Your reasons have, thus far, been based on assumptions about the trope which are not actually on the description itself.
If you feel like talking about it further please take it to the Bleach thread so we can have enough people around to form a consensus.
Heh... I was sleeping, I couldn't participate to the debate when it took place on the Bleach thread (well, it was 1:00 AM here at the time).
@Arha: I didn't like the way you introduced the issue on the Bleach thread, to be honest (this was derisive: just because we disagreed doesn't mean you were entitled to act like that. You could have presented the issue objectively. Instead, you presented your point of view as the right one right off the bat, while dismissing those who didn't share it, without presenting the arguments of both sides). That being said (I wanted to clear up that with you), I think the people there made their decision (recap):
- Alfric: [Wait] Wait and see.
- Arha: [No] Doesn't think she's a Lady of War.
- Blood Raven Fan: [Wait] Considers she acts calm. She didn't flow into a "berserker fury". Is in favor of waiting before applying (or no) the trope. Makes the distinction between Retsu and Yachiru personas.
- Bocaj: [No] Doesn't think she is one because "she lacks reserve". "She's tactically reserved but personality-wise, not really."
- byakugan 0889: [Yes/Wait] Needs more evidence, but would be rather in favor of Lady of War.
- Crimson Flame Knight: [No clear point of view, so I guess it's a Wait/No ?] Provides an example of a character who is both a Blood Knight and a Lady of War, though he mentions that "Just because someone's calm and tactical does not mean they're a Lady of War."
- Gilphon: [No] Considers she doesn't keep her normal personality while in Kenpachi mode.
- kay 4 today: [No] Doesn't think she's a Lady of War.
- King Zeal: [Yes] Thinks her actions doesn't contradict with the Lady of War trope.
- Nonorobot: [Yes/Wait] Thinks she may be a Lady of War, though if I had participated to the topic I would probably have withhold my judgement until further updates.
- Oh no a bear: [No] No. Think she's more Ax-Crazy than anything.
- Ogodei: [???] Doesn't quite know what to think about the fight.
- Saiga: [No] "Fuck no she isn't". "It's too fucking obvious". End quote. Agrees with the rest.
- wander lust warrior: [Wait] Wait and see, doesn't have enough data to make his judgement.
I class the [x/Wait] opinions under the [Wait] response. So, it's 1 Yes, 6 Wait, 6 No, 1 ???. By democracy, the "Wait/No" wins. The issue is dropped until further updates which may (or may not) indicate that she could fit the Trope.
PaperMaster
I think the pages need a reorganisation. We already have a problem with this one as it's getting too big and needs to be split ASAP.
Characters.Bleach Number X isn't exactly the best way to split.
I'm thinking:
- Bleach should be made an index for all character sheets.
Then convert the rest of the subpages to:
- Bleach Ichigo And Co
- Bleach Gotei 13 Squads 1-7
- Bleach Gotei 13 Squads 8-13
- Bleach Main Antagonists
- Bleach Vizards And Fullbringers
- Bleach: Arrancars
- Bleach Soul Society And Karakura Residents
- Bleach: Wandenreich
- Bleach: Anime-Only
Names are placeholders, of course. I'm putting Gotei 13 in separate sections because the page covering all of them is too big. We could potentially split Fullbringers and Vizards, too.
Yay/nay?
Edited by lu127 "If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer Hide / Show Replies
Hold on. I'm looking at the history, and this part bothers me; we can't add any death-related tropes on Byakuya because it was "unconfirmed."
Actually...it was confirmed. It was confirmed on the same page where you see his body. Plus, he's pretty much a huge bloody mesh. There's no logical way he could've survived that.
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I agree, he's freaking DEAD
Blank Eyes Shattered Zanpakuto Bathed in blood AND VERBAL CONFIRMATION OF HIS DEATH
Changing it back now...
"Having enemies just means you have something to stand up for"
"No logical way he could have survived that"....How long have you been reading Bleach?
Byakuya may indeed be dead; I even believe it myself. But he could have got his head cut off and be cut into 18 pieces and I still wouldn't be surprised if he came back. In this manga, you can survive pretty much anything.
I think the problem is that the quincy has used the very method Akon warned Ichigo not to use only two or three chapters before hand. Since Akon pointedly told Ichigo disappeared reiatsu should never be automatically equated with death without further investigation, it's not really surprising some of the fanbase wants further evidence before regarding Byakuya as a confirmed death. They're only following Akon's advice, after all.
Edited by Wyldchyld If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
As of the latest chapter, Ichigo is thinking of Byakuya and the other shinigami and says to himself "I won't let you die". So, not rock-solid confirmation, but he might indeed live.
Where does kubo say that Unohana is the most beautiful woman in SS? In what interview?
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I don't know about 'most beautiful woman' but the Bootleg does say: 'Strong yet beautiful, Captain Unohana epitomises the ideal Japanese woman' (pg 177).
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Should the Meaningful Name trope be listed for Nemu? I thought her personal name was written in katakana. Doesn't that mean any attempt to link her name to any kanji meanings is complete guesswork on the part of the fandom? Or is there somewhere that provides a kanji meaning for her name?
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Where would the characters from the new arc, Ryūnosuke Kyuki and Shino go? They're Gotei 13 Shinigami, but we don't know their division, and Shino is now pretty much dead.
Why aren't the seiyuu/V As listed for this page? I guess I'll do it myself...
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
I am tired of all this reverting of the name romanizations. The 3rd Databook Masked has already come out and has the new spellings, (see here
◊, image made courtesy of the Bleach Wiki's Masked Project staff).
Now, can someone help with changing back all the names to the new spellings? Cause I'm tired from repeatedly doing this, my computer is downright crappy from overworking, and Loads And Loads Of Characters plus multiple name spelling variations makes it difficult for me to track down every instance.
Edited by MarqFJA Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus. Hide / Show Replies
Why is it spelled "Barragan" here, while it's still spelled "Baraggan" in the actual wiki?
Someone unilaterally reverted all the new romanizations, which I had applied before we had to split the sheet into two. "Baraggan" is the offical romanization as per the 3rd Databook Masked (see link above).
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Why is Soi/Sui's name spelled "Sui-Fon"? "Sui-Fon" isn't even mentioned in her Spell My Name With An S section; the two names that she normally shows up as are "Soi Fon(g)" or "Sui-Feng" - "Sui Fon" is like some kind of strange hybrid.
likes the cheeses.
This page is currently in danger of reaching server-breaking size. See this thread for details. If action isn't taken, this page could be in danger of being locked.
My suggestion would be to split all of the current folders into individual pages. The (currently) under Goten 13 would still be a little bit on the large side, but it would at least give us some breathing room. Does anyone have any objections to this idea?
edit: Never mind, it looks like someone else has split the page. Good work!
Edited by Meeble Visit my contributor page to assist with the "I Like The Cheeses" project!
Do we have confirmation that Gin is dead? I mean, this is Bleach; other characters have survived far worse injuries.
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It's heavily implied, but not confirmed. If you compare with Grimmjaw, I'd say Grimmjow seems to have slightly better chances to still be alive, as he didn't have a "goodbye" sequence, or an "I feel like I'm dying" one. Which Gin had. But right now, he's still not Deader than Dead
I follow the Law of Fictional Mortality: A character is considered alive until irrefutable proof is given otherwise. Irrefutable proof being such things as: showing the character suffer, or has suffered, an instantly fatal wound (ie. brain death, decapitation, or (near) complete destruction of the body); showing that the character is missing one or more vital organs (eg. his unbeating heart sitting on a desk); or explicit confirmation of death from a suitable source ("He's dead, Jim").
Implication proves nothing.
Edited by Qazyr
If there's no confirmation shouldn't we edit it out then? I think it'd also be a good idea to keep the spoilers to a minimum too.
Also, while we're talking about Gin, is it confirmed that Aizen was stealing pieces of Rangiku's soul? All I remember from that chapter was Aizen's goons beating her up.
Something's wrong with this page. It doesn't appear to be locked, and yet my edits aren't showing up. When I edit again, the edits are gone, as if they were never entered.
... Please don't tell me that the page got over the size limit again. This would be the third time already.
EDIT: Hmmmm. Works fine for me. How about you?
Edited by MarqFJA Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
As far as I can see NEW additions (such as the last two edits: 9th Nov '10 5:26:34 PM KantonKage and 10th Nov '10 7:15:33 AM BlackKnightZero) do not show up. Editing what is already there (like you did) works fine.
Edited by shadowblack
That does not make sense, because my first edit should've had a net increase on the page size, as I was changing all instances of "Szayel" to "Szayelaporro".
Edited by MarqFJA Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
I just made two edits to the page. The first one (changing Illifort to Yylfordt) worked just fine. The second (which involved adding a trope, not just editing what's already there) did not. I'll leave it to someone more knowledgeable to guess why.
Then we can only assume that the page got over the size limit (I think it was 500 MB?). Maybe we should ask a mod or Fast Eddie to check on the actual page size to be sure.
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
We'll have to separate the Bleach 2 page, then.
In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
That seems to be the case. Has anyone contacted the mods so we can verify the exact nature of the problem, though? I don't want to go through all the trouble of figuring out how to split the page and then discover that it was just a system error rather than the page reaching maximum size.
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
This page is too long to be practically read regardless of how it was broken. Besides, it's not like splitting the page is all that hard. See, I just did it. Could probably stand a better description.
See you in the discussion pages.
I honestly can't tell whether she's referring to him as leaving as "death" or just...yanno, leaving.
http://www.mangareader.net/94-57918-10/bleach/chapter-423.html
So, is Gin alive? I would say he's alive, but...
Should we replace Gin with Rose? Both their links are in different sections anyway (Aizen's cohorts and Exiled Soul Reapers respectively), it would be nice to update it for accuracy. Same for the other Visoreds who got reinstated. (Shinji and Kensei)