Some people didn't like Homura in the series and Rebellion "justified" their hate even further. Homura isn't an abuser. They aren't two humans. They're a magical girl/demon and magical girl/god.
She objectively isn't in the series unless we want to use a very broad interpretation of abuse and psychopathy. She's made and will probably continue to make a lot of bad decisions in any follow up work, but will eventually be redeemed. She has never in canon tried to hurt Madoka and only insults her out if justifiable frusteration.
The entire character conflict that is guarenteed to happen will be tragic, but like every thing else in this series, they will over come it and we as the audience will be granted catharisis.
Am I the only one concerned about how, and the end of Rebellion, Homura's rewrite of the universe seems to parallel an extremely abusive relationship with Madoka? Assuming she's in control of the changes, she's the reason Madoka is now the transfer student, meaning Homura changed things to put Madoka in a situation isolated from her former friends, and outright threatening her into going along with it all. Never mind the fact that she's effectively imprisoned and Mind Raped her like you wouldn't believe.
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That's not the complete truth. The point of the isolation and selective memory wipe was to prevent Madoka from ascending to godhood once again. Miki Sayaka would have immediately mentioned it so Homura changed the situation to talk with Sayaka to convince her into just living a normal life. Madoka's going to regain her god form and Homura will regain her demonic form, but Homura doesn't want that to happen until after the entire cast has lived long and happy lives as normal human beings; which was the entire point of her doing it. This way, she doesn't die, Madoka doesn't disappear into godhood with no one remembering her existence, and Kyubey is effectively neutralized. Madoka will remember everything and regain her powers, she and Homura will be in future conflict as eternal beings perhaps for all eternity, but Homura wanted Madoka back so that everyone in the cast could live happy lives for a brief moment in time before returning to the ascension and - in Madoka's case - godhood.
Edited by darkdracon5
So, is this show a deconstruction or not? The various pages about trope deconstruction make different points about why it is while the page Darker&Edgier claims that it's darker&edgier, but Not A Deconstruction, with the additional note that it's (solely) a reconstruction instead. In my opinion, the show is simply darker and edgier than the usual Magical Girl show, but it's in no way more realistic, like how it had to be in reality, mandatory. For example, regarding the deconstruction entry for this show, the mentor pet, which in this case is a meany who wants to turn girls into monsters, could as well want to get rid of dangerous monsters, it could just be both of it, it doesn't have to be any of it, so it's not deconstructive by that. It's just a dark variation, and I think this is the case with every other element in the show. Additionally, I would say, this is the case with the entire Magical Girl genre, because it's mainly based on magic, and magic can be about anything, but not realistic. So, would someone post another opinion on that matter or point something out that I got wrong about the show or the nature of a deconstruction?
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I think it's actually both; the more realistic aspects make it darker and edgier. The things about magical girl shows that raise questions that are ignored or have silly answers actually do have answers in Madoka, and they're usually pretty dark.
Why do the monsters only attack the city where the magical girls live? Because magical girls turn into monsters.
Why doesn't anyone just attack them during the transformation sequence? Because they have to hunt for the witches and have plenty of time to change before going into the witches' labyrinths.
Why doesn't anyone recognize them if all they change is their clothes? They are recognizable, but witches don't care about their secret identities.
How do they keep their secret lives from their parents? They don't. Most of them don't have parents, the other two just don't tell them anything, and for Madoka, her mother actually DOES figure out something is wrong and has to trust her daughter to handle it.
If they just want to be normal, why don't they just quit? They can't, they need Grief Seeds to survive.
The list goes on, but that's the basic idea. It's both.
What Kreimheld Gretchen (the witch of Madoka Kaname) does is consume the entire world in her barrier, her own personal "heaven". Isn't this what Devil-Homura does in the end of The Rebellion Movie , and does this count as Foreshadowing? I haven't seen the movie so I don't know the details.
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Nah, I don't think outright repetition is Foreshadowing.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Hey You!
Could we get someone to fix the Kyubey face on the main page? It's sort of messed up, and I don't know how to correct that.
Talk about me? I'm sorry, but I'm too shy to do that.
is it just me, or did anyone else have an Oh, Crap! moment after the end of Movie 3: rebellion? I mean, homura outsmarts kyuubey, steals part of Madoka's godhood, rewrites the universe, erases the memories of all the other magical girls and leaves kyuubey a withered and disheveled heap of fur at her feet after she basically drives him whatever might pass as a despair event horizon for Cthulhu. Could be a crowning moment of awesome, but in this troper's opinion, she easily outdoes Gasai Yuno and Sengoku Nadeko for the Queen of Yandere and Love Makes You Crazy.
Edited by 129.19.92.21
I don't know if anyone's reading this, but I think we might need a franchise page for this series. Especially with all the new manga.
The Wordnomnom
I have a question: Did the creator of this work ever explicitly say it was a tribute to Geothe's work or about the sexuality of teenage girls? The Analysis page makes arguments for these things, but if the creater didnt specify then these are just guesses about the subtext, which seems like WMG to me.
While the breath's in his mouth, he must bear without fail, / In the Name of the Empress, the Overland Mail.
nor there
Okay, throughout the wiki I've been seeing entries for this show saying that Madoka's wish did not make [much of] a difference, and that things are still as horrible as before. Are things still as bad as before? Should those entries be revised?
I say this because the general spirit of episode 12 seems to be against that notion, and having seen the anime, I can say that one thing that it's honest about is tone. When Mami died in episode 3, the music that was playing was not her theme; in fact, this is the same episode when [[Magia]] started being the ending theme. When Sayaka became a witch, the atmosphere was as dark as appropriate, with her leitmotif (which isn't exactly peppy) playing throughout. Now, I suppose one could make a case for the opening being out of place, but a look at its lyrics will reveal that it essentially describes Homura's plot, both before and after the end of the show.
I'm sorry for what may have been a tangent, but I ask again: should the entries saying that Madoka didn't make [much of] a difference be changed?
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Yes, they should. Stuff like that belongs on the YMMV page.
Additionally, the show itself treats it as a big deal.
Just because the show treats something a certain way doesn't mean make it so. That's why we have the Esoteric Happy Ending trope, something the show says is an uplifting ending that really isn't, which is exactly the case here.
Shouldn't the spoiler warning come before the description of the series? With links to things like Deal with the Devil, Cosmic Horror Story, Neon Genesis Evangelion and so on, just the description itself spoils a lot.
I'm cleaning the page up a bit. Removed a few things:
This would work better in an Analysis article on the title than on the main page, since it seems to generate a lot of discussion:
- Or possibly not-so-mistranslated. "Puella magi" literally means "Girl of the Sorcerer". This becomes a plot point when it's revealed that Witches are Fallen Magical Girls. Not to mention the OST uses the correct translation for what's essentially Kyubey's Leitmotif, "Sis puella magica!" (You Should Be a Magical Girl!)
- "Puella" literally means "a young girl" but it's derived from "Puerulus", which means "a young slave". So when he says "You should become a Puella Magi!", he's saying "You should become a Magical Girl!" while also saying "You should become [my] Magical Slave!"
- "Magi", depending on the context, can be used in two ways: "Magician" or "Deceiver", the latter of which is the closest derivation.
- Now we have a new title for the series : Slave to the Deceiver, Magician Madoka.
Come on, you know this isn't what Arc Number means:
- Arc Number/Four Is Death: Number 5, and latter. More of a blink-and-you'll-miss-it, but it is constantly there, mostly done as a Rule of Symbolism. Comparable to how Final Fantasy uses it like a meta example, except, in this series, in a more subtle way. Crosses over with Arc Words numerous times. Most notable:
- Episode 5 is a Breather Episode, the only one of its kind, and Episode 10 (5 times 2) is a dedicated flashback episode, which showcases the previous four times Homura has failed. Conversely, look at what happened every four episodes. This is subverted for Episode 3, in which three is not an Arc Number but very important.
- Walpurgis Night
is the night before May Day (or May 1st, or 5/1; this is also known as Labor Day) and the anime runs within April, the fourth month of the year. The Other Wiki has more information on this day, most of which is spoiler-filled for the Late Arrival.
In other words, Not An Example of Cessation of Existence:
- Episode 12: Averted after Madoka rebuilds the universe. It's implied that God-Madoka guides all the dead magi into the afterlife. In the new world when Sayaka exhausts her Soul Gem, Madoka shows up and takes her to see Kyosuke one last time and they discuss her wish, leading to Sayaka accepting what happened with the love triangle and being happy about how her wish turned out, then they both fade away together.
- Director Shinbo has stated in an interview that there is a "new universe" that Goddess Madoka takes dead magical girls like Sayaka to.
- Director Shinbo has stated in an interview
- Episode 12: Averted after Madoka rebuilds the universe. It's implied that God-Madoka guides all the dead magi into the afterlife. In the new world when Sayaka exhausts her Soul Gem, Madoka shows up and takes her to see Kyosuke one last time and they discuss her wish, leading to Sayaka accepting what happened with the love triangle and being happy about how her wish turned out, then they both fade away together.
Also cut this bit of Conversation In The Main Page from Artistic License – Physics:
- It's interesting to see Negentropism in mainstream fiction, but, of course, a whole bucket of scale issues has been thrown out the window for the sake of the story. If the "fit in your hand"-sized Grief Seeds pack enough punch to affect the energy budget of the entire universe, then they would have some very unusual physical properties indeed.
** That said, it's also canon that most of the energy comes from the Witch transformation itself, which is an emotional phenomenon that we don't really know the physics behind. The Grief Seeds are just absorbed for safety/lack of waste.
Is there a reason why this section was deleted?
- Les Yay: We have a separate page for this.
- Les Yay Shipping The amount of subtext this show gives to it's various main characters is staggering. Given the age of the main characters, the Les Yay may or may not be literal... but this has NOT gone un-noticed by fans or artists. Nor has this stopped them form ampping up what is seen.... but...
- Bury Your Gays: Kyouko, maybe. She does come Back from the Dead, but not until the final episode, and her death has all the hallmarks of the tragic end often associated with Girls' Love: Heroic Sacrifice, Together in Death, Go Out with a Smile. Averted with Homura; despite having very heavy subtext with Madoka, she survives until the end of the series and is the only Magical Girl who never dies in any of the timelines.Madoka may count if you interpret her feelings for Homura as more than friendship, but she doesn't actually die, only ascends to a higher plane of existence.
- The show was ranked as the best yuri anime. Go figure.
Several rather objective tropes are getting out of control, in both the Main page and the YMMV page (more so in the YMMV page, Double Standard and Die for Our Ship comes to mind). The thing is, a lot of entries are turning into discussions, resulting in natter that shouldn't really be taking place in the main pages. Someone should probably sort them out and remove a few thing.
Anyone think H.N. Elly/Kirsten may have been a Troll before she became a witch? I mean, trolls do covet the responses they cause, and Kirsten does have a covetous nature and she was implied to have been on the internet a lot. Does this have some plausibility?
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More likely an Attention Whore. Someone who puts legitimate effort into their work and wants to be acknowleged for it. She was shown with a sillohete which implies an Idol Singer, not really trollish in her attempt.
The Crystal Caverns A bird's gotta sing.
Can someone please tell me why Homura keeps getting labeled an emotional abuser on these pages? She has a very good reason for being distant and cold throughout the series and it's made very clear that she doesn't want to be, but she's run out of ideas and other options. Does it not count as an attempt at saving someone's life if she's not all bubbles and rainbows about it?
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