split WhiteAndGreyMorality and : Rousseau Was Right

courtesy link

1-Is possible one side not be human.This is mentioned in the own trope description- in the ending of the second paragraph. 2- Nothing forces one side be the "right" or "white". Many examples of Grey-and-Gray Morality are also Rousseau Was Right examples.(coff... coff... Princess Mononoke)

Crowner:[1]

edited 26th Jul '10 4:10:47 AM by MagBas

Wait, did it mix an aesop with a moral setting?

I believe so.

Hard split.

edited 23rd Jul '10 12:07:32 PM by rallyfan9000

Well, by far is 1 vote to split and 1 vote in general. BUMP.

Definitely split.

Split.

I think I did discuss before to split into White-and-Grey Morality and Humans Are Good(being the opposite of Humans Are Bastards).

edited 25th Jul '10 12:00:26 PM by Meophist

Split.

Split.

Is there an echo in here?

Split.

Yes, an echo.

edited 25th Jul '10 2:41:03 PM by FarseerLolotea

Crowner.

Crowner added.

Bump.

Where is this crowner of which you speak?

Ah, here it is: linky

edited 30th Jul '10 7:27:23 PM by Deboss

Attached crowner.

The crowner seems in 100% favour for the split, so we can split the page now right but...should Rousseau Was Right redirect to Humans Are Good or White And Grey Morality?

^For that, I'd vote for Rousseau Was Right.

Rousseau Was Right should redirect to Humans Are Good. Or vice-versa, I guess, but "Humans Are Good" is easier to spell.

edited 18th Aug '10 7:48:34 AM by Roxor

I favor Rousseau Was Right redirecting to Humans Are Good. I'd like to raise the point that White and Gray Morality is the more general trope, however, and since the trope is being split it might deserve that redirect more.

...and since the trope is being split it might deserve that redirect more.

NOT when the other trope is actually reflecting the main point of Rousseau Was Right in the first place.

Yeah. Just thought I would mention it, though.

Um, why hasn't this been split yet?

Do we need to move to a Page Action crowner?

Since the crowner has officially been called in favor of splitting, we now need someone or a group of someones to write up the text for the two new pages.

I believe the current description for Rousseau Was Right is good enough for Humans Are Good; One just needs to cut out the references to the Enlightenment, but, perhaps, keep the page quote.

->Our will is always for our own good, but we do not always see what that is. —>— Jean-Jacques Rousseau, French philosopher during the Enlightenment

Humans Are Good is a strong pro-humanity motif that states that all humans are genuinely and intrinsically good and noble in their hearts; that all bad things are merely mistakes and misunderstandings of each other and that once these have been cleared, Utopia will certainly be achieved. The culmination of this motif is a Patrick Stewart Speech. Unlike the universal Humans Are Bastards theme, this one lives far down the ideal side of The Scale.

The most obvious identifier of this theme is the absence of genuine Villains in the show. The absolute worst character you find will be a Well-Intentioned Extremist, rather than truly evil. The conflict will emerge from something apart from the characters' desires: they might fight one another based on a misunderstanding, because their way of life forces them to, or because they have incompatible goals, which are nevertheless equally beneficial for everyone; or the "villain" might be something non-human, such as an impending disaster, a mistake made with powerful technology, or Scary Dogmatic Aliens.

Sometimes this trope appears in slightly altered form, suggesting that we could get along if only J. Random Factor wasn't preventing us. Regrettably, this often turns into a Take That! against communism, Christianity, patriarchalism, or whatever the author thinks is to blame for us not living up to our presumed inherent goodness. At this point, we have moved from Humans Are Good to The Man Is Keeping Us Down.

Interestingly, Being Evil Sucks may not factor into this at all, or be intrinsically a part of it, depending on whether the villains/antagonists actually set out to do evil or not. Oh, and you can pretty much bet Being Good Sucks will be a completely verboten trope: in works where Humans Are Good, good is not just easy but rewarding.

Perfect Pacifist People is the trope for a society of Actual Pacifists with this view. On the downside, can result in Well Intentioned Extremists and Utopia Justifies the Means.

May be related to Good Is Not Dumb, Humans Are Special, Children Are Innocent, Earn Your Happy Ending, and Honor Before Reason. Opposite of Humans Are Bastards, Humans Are Morons, Hobbes Was Right, Always Chaotic Evil, and in a storyline sense, Black-and-Gray Morality (which is why White-and-Grey Morality redirects to this article). See also Black-and-White Morality and Grey-and-Gray Morality. Compare Humans Are Flawed. If there are apparently genuine villain characters, expect it to turn out not only that they all used to be sweet kids by nature, but also that the damage to their moral character is reversible or, in the worst-case scenario, could have been avoided if only people had listened to the idealists. (This may not apply unless they're human though.) It may also feature in Society Is to Blame, depending on the outcome of the story. Works in which this trope is at play without becoming cloying or unbelievable have a tendency to restore one's faith in humanity.

edited 18th Aug '10 9:54:45 AM by SeanMurrayI

Is there any reason the Humans Are Good trope can't keep the name Rousseau Was Right?