Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

It was also said in the discussion with Ewell is that his actions deviated from the system. That included the attempted murders of the children. Pretty much, he knew that the system was broken, but he manipulated the system in a way that benefited him.

Also, there was a scene from The Stand that we could use for the Stephen King page. It depicts a man being crucified on a cross while Randall was talking to the audience.

edited 4th Sep '14 12:07:04 PM by AustinDR

Yeah, while the point of Mockingbird was calling attention to a rotten system, Ewell is the worst kind of person in it. He knows the system is rotten and loves it because it helps him get away with his own crimes.

So there is one vote so far to keep Monique and Markos. Anyone else ?

Both.

It's been quite a while since I watched the movie, but my impressions combined with the current discussion compel me to vote on Ratched. Not a nice person, but no CM in my eyes.

To Monique and Markos.

By the way, I noticed that Harry Warden is still listed on the ymmv page for My Bloody Valentine 3 D. I don't think we ever made a decision to cut or keep. I suggested him a few months ago and got a few votes, but we never really reached a conclusion. We have probably been busy, but does anyone have any oppinions?

Here's his ymmv entry:

Harry Warden, in a case of Adaptational Villainy. In the original, he only went after the two admittedly negligent supervisors, with the excuse that he had been driven insane by being forced to eat the corpses of his companions who had died in the cave-in. In the remake however, he is shown to be a cruel and condescending bully who personally kills his fellow trapped miners to steal their oxygen supplies. He then slaughters nearly two dozen innocent people (most of them invalid hospital patients and children, according to a newscast) because...he was really pissed off.

He's not even the main killer though in the remake, right? I saw it in theaters, and barely remember him, so I'm inclined to think

BTW, I don't see the updated Kurata entry?

edited 4th Sep '14 3:07:18 PM by ACW

I'm gonna make a big post on Ratched soon as I can so we get a proper consideration

I'll withhold my vote on Ratched for now. I will note that I've wondered before whether she even meets the heinous bar, which is quite low with one accidental suicide and a lobotomy. I might also need to rewatch the scenes to confirm this, but in the movie at least I recall Ratched being quite shocked at Billy's suicide before McMurphy strangles her in response.

Also, we probably need to revisit the shooter from Uwe Boll's Rampage who was previously approved and written-up, even if it's just to expand the entry. There's a downright bizarre sequel released a few weeks ago where he seems to turn into a deranged Anti-Hero Well-Intentioned Extremist. I've only seen the Snob review so anyone who's actually seen it can correct me, but he apparently takes a TV station hostage to incite a rebellion against corruption in society. He does this by advocating to kill the entire upper class, shoots half the news staff, blows up the building at the end, and escapes again, so I wouldn't be surprised if there were even further sequels down the road. I'm mixed on this, because the impression I get is that it's just another shallow excuse (like the "overpopulation" nonsense from the first one) from a deranged mass murderer to cause as much destruction as possible. At one point for instance he shoots a woman merely for doing yoga, and at the end gives a kid a gun to shoot up some people. He sounds a lot more like a massive fan of domestic terrorism than some actual "revolutionary".

As a sidenote, I've fixed Kurata's entry on the sandbox

For some reason when I read "sequel to Rampage", my mind went to "sequel to Shoot 'Em Up".

What.

Short story: It's an Author Tract for Uwe Boll's political beliefs. Why he felt he needed to make the mouthpiece for his message a sadistic spree killer...

What...what's his message?

It is a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma. Unless Boll seriously does advocate mass murder as a rational solution to whatever societal problem may exist.

My first impression is that this is another Griffin case. The writer sets out to write some sort of Anti-Hero, but through sheer ineptitude ends up writing a straight villain instead due to the Death of the Author issue.

edited 4th Sep '14 3:58:22 PM by Morgenthaler

I've found a reason to disqualify a villain from Golden Sun: Dark Dawn.

• Alex betrays his clan, and especially his mentor, in search for the forbidden powers of Alchemy (without intending to save the world; he just wanted the power for himself). He slaughters a Tolbian army just because he could. He seduces a woman just so he could get closer to a royal artifact, and then leaves her to die. And that's just the tip of the iceburg. Even Blados and Chalis are wary of him.

Firstly, that writeup doesn't explain him at all (it didn't even get into the third game). Secondly, Alex normally would count if it weren't for a Pet the Dog moment halfway through the game. Alex manipulates one of the supporting characters into activating the Apollo Lens under the promise that if he does, his sister will be saved from execution. After this is all said and done, Alex honors his deal and saves Hou Zing. This could easily fall under Pragmatic Villainy except Alex goes actively out of the way of his plan to bargain with Volechek, frees Hou Zing and the other prisoner, and makes the journey of the heroes somewhat easier without any other consequences. Monsters don't do that; if there's any opposition, state it now or I'll bring it to be cut.

edited 4th Sep '14 6:51:09 PM by Scraggle

That's a clear disqualifier, no opposition from me.

Also fine with Alex being cut.

Agreed with cutting Alex.

Cut Alex.

Here's the next list of entries (9) I wanted to post that either haven't been brought up before, or were brought up once never resolved. They're all fanfics, of which I think there are 3 keeps, 5 cuts, and 1 unsure (Garoth from the last one listed).

• Complete Monster: [Chrysalis] has betrayed everyone who has ever trusted her, including her own followers who are (because she is a Hive Queen) her own kin. She has consciously allied with Ahtu and the Night Shadows against all Earthlife in pursuit of her ambitions. She has shattered the sanity of her top minion Princess Ceymi, the better to subject her wholly to her will; and she wants to do the same to her secret daughter Fluttershy.

Great, another Pony darkfic. Sounds like a keep though. On the same topic, an entry was cut from My Little Balladeer, but I can find no discussion on it. Was this ever approved?

• Complete Monster: While he was never presented as a nice person beforehand, and considering all the blood he's spilled and continues to spill, even in the story itself, overall, it's when The Lord murders Black Lightning in front of his daughter Thunder, and then calmly tells her she deserves the pain she's feeling for chosing to be a hero that he completely crosses any chance of returning past the Moral Event Horizon.

Cut. Only lists a Moral Event Horizon, likely redeeming traits.

• Freudian Excuse: Implications dropped in multiple stories that he suffered immense torture and trauma, repressed it, and somehow it led to his obsession with efficiency and perfection.

• Complete Monster: Mr. Pupa, in almost all of his appearances. It's one of the few things almost all of the works and canons agree on.
  • While Mobster Kingpin doesn't appear nearly as often, Wigmund canon has him as one when he does. One fic has him listed as one of the only pure evil figures of the city (Mr. Pupa, predictably, is another), he owns a portal to Hell, and it's implied that he has children raped on stage in front of an audience for their amusement.
    • MK gets even worse in Heart Full of Empty, where he plans to nuke the city so that demons can take over Earth.

Cut. The first one has zero context, the second doesn't list a lot of crimes, there seems to be Offscreen Villainy (thank god for that!), and considering the work's name and the work page description I really doubt that it's even taking it seriously.

• Complete Monster:
  • Kitsune's Nine-Tails, which sought to traumatize that version of Naruto and influenced him into becoming a murderer.
  • Yagura has entered the Complete Monster club with lifetime benefits. He's a cannibal, commits whimsical genocide, and wants to turn all of humanity into wild animals so he can have more fun with these goals. His version of the Three-Tails has committed the same crimes, discussed them with him, revels in it, and is more or less The Man Behind the Man for Yagura. For added salt, it tells Kazama that it planned the Uzumaki genocide. It deserved being obliterated from existence by Amatsu-Mikaboshi.
  • Izanagi, to the point where his own counterparts don't like him. At the first sign of defeat, he tried to destroy the world via Colony Drop, which caused Hashirama to call him a monster. It's implied that he forced Izanami to prostitute herself as part of her "training", and her escape attempt only led to him mutilating her, and due to her immortality...

For reference, there were previously five different CMs listed here. Cut Kitsune for failing the heinous bar compared to Yagura and Izanagi, keep Yagura, cut Izanagi for a possible redeeming trait.

• Pet the Dog: Yes, really, once long, long ago, he spared Hanzo's life as a child in a moment of kindness...or possibly arrogance.

• Complete Monster: The Director had utterly no problem with killing children. With one exception, he doesn't even show any emotion over it, except faint amusment.
  • Dan Phantom, but that much is a given. He gets points for roasting the above individual's neck, but loses them again after killing Sam in front of Danny's eyes.

Dan Phantom is a clear cut considering he kills another villain out of disgust. Cut the Director for now unless they can explain what this Villainous Breakdown over killing a child entails. There's also a ridiculously high heinous standard in general:

• Moral Event Horizon: Anti-Cosmo destroying Fairy World, Sanderson killing HP, The Director executing Remy, President Fulton rounding up kids and putting them in concentration camps, Dan...doing just about anything he does, Freakshow killing Jorgen... yeah, these happen a lot.

• Complete Monster: At the beggening of the series, Hattori cooly contemplates removing a man's face, eyes, and vocal chords, then examining their skeletal system to create a disguise. He also mentions he will always keep his subject alive, even in such a state.

Basically a stub article. Cut and leave a note asking the contributor to explain it.

• Complete Monster: Kokabiel. He’s a sadistic bastard who will happily torture his enemies to death, callously sacrifice his own soldiers even in situations where it wouldn’t be necessary and all but states he plans on raping Rias and Sona before killing them just to piss off Sirzechs and Serfall. Then there’s his Moral Event Horizon…

Keep. In addition to the listed crimes, the Moral Event Horizon in question is apparently killing God, his father.

• Complete Monster: The Dalek Inquisitor General. Daleks are a race whose hat is "Omnicidal Maniac", but this guy is nasty even by their standards. Having to work with him is considered a Fate Worse than Death, and he's The Dreaded to the point that the Daleks arguably fear him more than they fear The Doctor!

Cut. He sounds bad, but I'm not quite sure if he's so much worse than the rest of them when the only additional thing he does next to his entire species's rabid genocidalism is to be a Bad Boss, which I'm not sure there's even a demonstration of, making it an Informed Attribute. Offhand, do canon Daleks have moral agency? It sounds like they're simply designed to be monstrous.

• Complete Monster: Death Bringer Garoth, one of the Mazoku lords under Chaotic Blue. He's responsible for the destruction of Al-Hazard, the corruption of the Book of Darkness, the chaos that engulfed Saint Kaiser Olivie's reign as well as her death, the disruption of Precia's experiment and the corruption of Alicia into Levi (who is a black-hearted monster in her own right thanks to his influence), and possibly more heinous acts.
  • Alicia, later named Levi, does horrible things to Lutecia and Reinforce, quickly putting her into this category.

Alicia has no moral agency, since she was apparently literally resurrected to be a monster by Garoth. There's almost no context due to Fan Myopia on Garoth himself, and the work page isn't very insightful.

edited 5th Sep '14 6:55:54 AM by Morgenthaler

The latest Doctor Who episode established that Daleks are not only genetically engineered to be absolute xenophobes, but also have mechanical parts designed to eradicate any thoughts that run contradictory to that doctrine.

I support cutting Alex. I have finally requested that the Cluny and Slagar rewrites be added to the Redwall page. Since my Internet access is sporadic at best, could somebody keep an eye on that subpage and make sure it actually happens?

I agree with these cuts.

edited 5th Sep '14 9:15:58 AM by AmbarSonofDeshar

@ Morgenthaler Haven`t seen the film yet, but if Bill shows the same pleasure while *doing his deeds for humanity* like in part 1 he remains a solid keep.

(Just out of curiosity: Does he finally die in this film?)

edited 5th Sep '14 9:43:22 AM by forenperser