Unclear Description: Kicking Ass In All Her Finery

The trope is named a Distaff Counterpart to Agent Peacock, but many of examples on the trope page itself is "A woman is forced to fight while wearing a dress", not somebody who wears a pimped out dress into battle as part of her image.

Not that it is misuse (maybe?), but for true Distaff Counterpart the woman needs to have it as a part of her image, not "I have a scene or two when I fight wearing a dress", IMO.

• Wonder Woman was created partly to embody this. As Diana Prince, she had a lot of occasions to go out to dinner parties thrown by military brass in elegant evening gowns, jewelry, etc. She'd always have elbow-length gloves to cover up her bracelets. Sometime during the night it was guaranteed she would have to do some kind of ass kicking while still in her flossy attire. As Wonder Woman her original outfit included knee-length pleated culottes, which looked like a skirt most of the time unless she was doing something extremely active.
• Jean Grey can easily do battle in fancy dresses thanks to her Mind over Matter powers (although she will do an Action Dress Rip when more physical action is called for).
  • In the first X-Factor series, Jean even played with this. After she bought◊ a white fur coat to go with her Little Black Dress, she started a Snowball Fight with Scott using their superpowers.
• Yoko Tsuno once pointed out a rifle at two guys after one of them freaks out and almost gets her best friend/prospect boyfriend Vic shot to death while wearing a very fancy pink kimono. And she managed to get them to back down.
• Subverted in an issue of Black Widow, which sees Nat and X-23 raiding a hotel and casino, while dressed to the nines. Laura makes a point of ditching her heels and earrings before the shooting starts, though she's still wearing a very nice top and pants that wouldn't be the most practical to fight in.

From Comic Book section - all these intros do not sound like a Spear Counterpart to Agent Peacock- that is ''(certified) Badass woman has a fight once in a while while wearing dress and manages not to get it ripped, while in 90% examples of her normal appearances she wears clothes that are perfectly reasonable for combat".

• Spider-Man had a villain called Queen. She wore a simple but beautiful Little Black Dress in her debut issue. She wore similar dress in later issues, except with less coverage. She demonstrates her deadly skills in her debut issue where she overpowers Spider-Man with her Super-Strength and Sonic Scream, knocks out Captain America with a kick and ends the issue forcing a big wet kiss on the defeated Spider-Man.

This one sounds like Distaff Counterpart to Agent Peacock. "A certified Badass who wears pimped out dresses as part of her image", not "a woman, who is badass enough to hold her own wearing a dress in situations, where 95% of her action scenes have her abide to Real Women Don't Wear Dresses trope.

So... what the trope should be about?

edited 22nd Jan '18 7:59:19 AM by ChivalrousDelphine

Opening.

If it's lifestlyle trope, then what's the difference from Action Fashionista? If it is a situation trope, then how come it is a Distaff Counterpart to Agent Peacock (a lifestyle "Badass Metrosexual" trope)?

Also, sorry about confusion between Spear/Distaff counterparts in the opening post.

edited 22nd Jan '18 7:59:58 AM by ChivalrousDelphine

Not seeing how this situational trope could be the distaff counterpart to Agent Peacock. The latter is a character trope involving more than just fancy battle clothing. Remove that note and be done?

edited 22nd Jan '18 9:13:48 AM by eroock

Is this just Action Fashionista but doesn't always change her outfit?

Also, I don't see this as a distaff counterpart of Agent Peacock, which would be a female character who is butch but also badass whose masculinity doesn't affect her badassery. The normal inversion of AP could be a female character who is feminine but her femininity affects her badassery... or a male character who is feminine and not badass because of it... The gender roles and stereotypes play a part in the trope.

When I did the work on this trope on Russian Tropes site aka posmotre.li, I made the Kicking Ass in All Her Finery analogue the situational trope (with note that masculine version is possible when men are forced to fight in uncomfortable ceremonial outfits that should normally impair combat performance AND "impair" part is implied), while Action Fashionista analogue is Always Female with "fashionista" emphasis (the male version is under Agent Peacock analogue as it's nealry always a Dandy type character - so Action Fashionista is treated as a female Distaff Counterpart (not just a character with a lot of outfits, but an outfit fetishist one, like Kim Possible example from Action Fashionista page - since a girl cannot be called "metrosexual", but can be appearance/clothes fetishist aka "your uniform sucks, I'd better wear designer clothes to combat").

Was really surprised that what is clearly a situational trope is treated as Distaff Counterpart to character type trope.

edited 22nd Jan '18 12:33:05 PM by ChivalrousDelphine

Action Fashionista is looking good while fighting and looking good in many different ways IE rather constant costume changes ala Cardcaptor Sakura, Final Fantasy X 2 and Lightning Returns Final Fantasy XIII. It would be a subtrope to Kicking Ass in All Her Finery IMO.

The 'she is dressed for a party and a fight breaks out so she is kicking ass in a fancy dress' IMO should be a sister trope to those and probably should get made. Could be gender neutral with a guy fighting in a suit that really isn't suited for combat.

edited 22nd Jan '18 4:30:13 PM by Memers

^ I see Kicking Ass in All Her Finery already acting as the trope you want to create. What's your definition?

A Distaff Counterpart to Agent Peacock. A woman who wears an impractical fancy dress, mini skirt or whatever worn into battle, they are not hindered by it and they or whoever put them in that cares about their appearance. If it is an armored dress then they are wearing Battle Ballgown [1]◊ Said definition is what that trope claims Kicking Ass in All Her Finery is.

Its also a supertrope to Frills of Justice which is Magical Girl's impossibly extravagant outfits. Frills of Justice also claims that its relation to Kicking Ass in All Her Finery is "Frilly dresses don't slow down the action".

Also I don't get any of that 'incidental combat' from the description, the image would also be massive misuse of that as well.

edited 22nd Jan '18 6:55:19 PM by Memers

I think the name is part of the problem because I assumed the same thing as all the other people using it.

A scene where a action girl kicks ass while dressed up her fine evening wear like a ballgown. Nothing denotes that it's an entire character type with the high-class/lady-like attire being part of her character image and a constant.

edited 22nd Jan '18 8:40:32 PM by shoboni

True, I could see a trope transplant with that line of reasoning. Or a new name for both tropes.

Also Action Fashionista could use a genderflipped redirect since males do qualify for the trope. Also could use a cleanup to get rid of the examples of characters only being a Fashionista for non-combat wear.

edited 22nd Jan '18 8:47:29 PM by Memers

Ignore this

edited 22nd Jan '18 8:51:44 PM by shoboni

Actually looking it up Fashionista is gender neutral, I never knew that, always assumed the -ista meant female. Barista too... shows you what I know.

So, a trope transplant? Cause when I checked, at least the examples on the page show Kicking Ass in All Her Finery being situation trope.

The existing examples of male Action Fashionista on the page don't seem all that different from The Dandy to not seem redundant - as The Dandy description actually says that The Dandy that is good in combat goes under Agent Peacock, and some descriptions of male Action Fashionista (like Robert Garcia from King Of Fighters in Videogames section) actually describe a Dandy type (his wardrobe in gameplay is just as limited as that of other characters).

If Agent Peacock is "Effeminate Badass" trope with emphasis on Effeminate, then it needs to have pruning from metrosexuals who were anything but girly (like Prince Rupert of the Rhine in Real Life example - he would have been volleyball grade tall even today (6'4'') with figure to match, but being fashion conscious he is under Agent Peacock now), and those being moved to Action Fashionista. Seems to make no sense to me, as Agent Peacock is being paired with The Dandy on this site - (Agent Peacock = Badass Metrosexual; The Dandy = just metrosexual, full stop, without indications of badassery).

Also, The Fashionista exists here as all female trope (distaff counterpart to The Dandy), making Action Fashionista being gender neutral even more confusing.

I propose the following:

1. Action Fashionista to become the what the Kicking Ass in All Her Finery intends to be from description (but does not in examples). Also, while the word "Fashionista" is gender neutral, the page needs pruning of examples, as many male examples seem to me actually being The Dandy / Agent Peacock trope. Or the description needs to be rewritten with more emphasis on "fashion conscious/Action Dandy" than to the size of character's wardrobe shown on panel/screen.

2. Kicking Ass in All Her Finery being made a purely situational trope, as the examples on the page fit this. Also made gender neutral.

edited 24th Jan '18 3:11:31 PM by ChivalrousDelphine

Uhh The Dandy is NOTHING like Action Fashionista...

• The Dandy is the constant vain hedonist that usually avoids uncouth combat or dirty work lest he get dirty or ruin his manicure.
• Action Fashionista is about those guys and girls that wear different extravagant, and likely inappropriate for fighting, costumes. Sometimes to the extent of a different outfit for each fight. They might wreck the outfit each outing or something and get a new one, it does not matter. It’s the opposite of Limited Wardrobe for fighters. Occasionally it’s their outright superpower ala Cutey Honey, Final Fantasy X 2 and Lightning Returns Final Fantasy XIII and others you will see scenes of them shopping for said outfits or making them themselves.

edited 24th Jan '18 3:28:10 PM by Memers

So, what the trope somebody like Robert Garcia fits under? He is NOT noted for Unlimited Wardrobe (which is stated), and " costume of a character changes between versions of the game" (which are sometimes years apart) does not sound like Action Fashionista at all?

What the trope fashion conscious but not outright feminine in appearance metrosexuals, who are badass in combat, shall fall under? Or do I pay too much attention to excess femininity line in Agent Peacock current description?

I do not know who that is.

But if they are like Pierce Brosnan style James Bond badass Pretty Boy / Bishōnen in a million dollar suit and manicured while still kicks ass and such I don’t see why they wouldn’t be Agent Peacock. But if we want that trope to lean more heavily on the androgyny and girly side then possibly make a new trope.

edited 24th Jan '18 10:55:32 PM by Memers

I'd say either fix the description of Agent Peacock to match examples of not too androgyne Badass Metrosexuals to fit, or fix Action Fashionista to focus on Badass Metrosexuals instead of "just" outfit fetishists in frequently stupid/impractical clothes.

As of now, the description is severely narrowing, but people add the Badass Metrosexual examples nevertheless.

Maybe they'll address the issue in Badass tropes cleanup project, but there people only browsed it in cursory fashion.

Yeah no on 'badass' that word shouldn't be used on the wiki, it has too many non-combat meanings.

And the whole Action Metrosexual thing would be an entirely different trope from Action Fashionista, an example might be both sure but they are very different. Action Fashionista only needs a little clean up and clarity. It already has some male examples too, there are probably a good amount more but still that's where clarity could come in.

edited 25th Jan '18 3:08:52 AM by Memers

I think that TRS thread on Agent Peacock is needed, as it and hypothetical Action Metrosexual will have a lot in common. I'll maybe create it (or wait a bit until Badass cleanup reaches this).

And Robert Garcia is a character from King Of Fighters videogame, that is listed under Action Fashionista, but he has nothing like Unlimited Wardrobe - just a Sharp-Dressed Man.

Well that entry is misuse IMO also it doesn't even link to the work its from.

And why would the badass cleanup thread reach this? None of these tropes use the word 'Badass' in them thus are not in the scope of that thread.

EDIT: Badass in a Nice Suit would probably be the trope and that would be within the scope of the Badass thread, although that one would likely just get a rename.

edited 25th Jan '18 3:18:40 AM by Memers

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Sandbox/BadassTropes These are within the scope of index - though neither Action Fashionista nor Agent Peacock are noted as problematic (though they were in the cleanup thread itself).

Badass in a Nice Suit has unhealthy focus on business suits to serve as Action Metrosexual, so Agent Peacock is still more fitting for The Dandy who is not afraid to get his carefully manicured hands dirty in action, whether he is overtly feminine (to the almost crossdresser point) or just fashion conscious.

But that's tangential and warrants another TRS.

What should be done to Kicking Ass in All Her Finery? Since a lot of examples on the page itself treat it as a situational trope, maybe trope transplant?

IMO we can either just create the new incidental trope and migrate those examples there or both tropes do not get the name and we rename this one and make the new trope.

I don't really care either way but as it stands all the incidental examples are misuse for the trope on the page.