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Foil characters in your works.

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annebeeche watching down on us from by the long tidal river Since: Nov, 2010
watching down on us
#1: Apr 14th 2011 at 6:06:37 AM

Foil characters are characters on a common ground who differ greatly from each other.

For a pair of characters to be considered a foil, they have to have something in common, a common ground on which to be compared. They also have to be virtually polar opposites of each other.

A good example of a pair of foils in fiction is Mufasa vs Scar in The Lion King. They can be compared because they are brothers who compete for the throne. We know that the former is brave and honorable, while the latter is a snivelling coward, that the former is a good king and father figure, while the other is not.

If you're anything like me, you probably make foil pairs without even realizing. Take some time in this thread to identify foils and gain a better understanding of your own work.

edited 14th Apr '11 6:07:56 AM by annebeeche

Banned entirely for telling FE that he was being rude and not contributing to the discussion. I shall watch down from the goon heavens.
AtomJames I need a drink Since: Apr, 2010
I need a drink
#2: Apr 14th 2011 at 6:22:23 AM

I admit I like my foils and in my time I have made a few. Take my Superhero Verse for example. Right off the top of my head I can say I have three sets of foils:

  • Nate Novaks VS Quantum Roberts. Both are extremely intelligent, rich and for the most part have managed to avoid being useless within my Verse. However, both have a vastly different outlook on Humanity and their place in the world. Nate believes that Mankind is for the most part stupid, selfish and couldn't possibly continue on without him. Quantum on the other hand is more optimistic and sympathetic, believing his just helping Humanity along.They do however both share love for their children. Nate may be one of the worst white collar criminals around, but he genuinely cares for his son.

  • Ms Amazing VS The Amazium Man. These two are more like emotional foils than anything else. Both lived relatively mundane existences, both were generally met with apathy for most of their lives, resulting in inferiority complexes and both share an origin that involves Magic Meteors. These two differ however in how they use their newfound gifts. Ms Amazing tries to give her life meaning by being a superhero, even though she knows its a ridiculous idea. Amazium Man on the other hand lets out his frustrations and goes on rampages despite the fact he could be more if it weren't for his feelings of anger and self-pity.

I would mention the third but I'm still working on it. Though you could really say that my entire verse is itself a foil to a Parralel Reality inhabited by evil versions of heroes.

edited 14th Apr '11 6:23:43 AM by AtomJames

Theres sex and death and human grime in monochrome for one thin dime and at least the trains all run on time but they dont go anywhere.
CrystalGlacia from at least we're not detroit Since: May, 2009
#3: Apr 14th 2011 at 6:26:31 AM

For a real life example, my sister and myself. She's athletic and tomboyish, I'm a bit more girly and something of a recluse. We compliment each other perfectly without clashing too often. ' w '

For a fictional example, I have a husband/wife pair, Raphael and Celia Cline. Celia is very calm (unless she's having a depression episode) and rather tomboyish. Her husband is neurotic and effeminate. They kinda need each other.

I'd add my protagonist, Kiyoi Shimada and his identical twin brother if they could stand to work peacefully with each other, but that's never going to happen, no. Not even in a Power Trio setting.

I think there's one more, but I can't think of it right now.

edited 14th Apr '11 6:29:15 AM by CrystalGlacia

"Jack, you have debauched my sloth."
MajorTom Eye'm the cutest! Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Eye'm the cutest!
#4: Apr 14th 2011 at 6:38:56 AM

I have a few instances.

  • Mathias Watkins vs Tenchi Yamanaka. Mat's got a tendency for impulsive, spur of the moment actions in addition to his passionate behaviors. Tenchi is calm, collected and disciplined most of the time and prefers planning (from simple plans to complex schemes) out his next moves. Naturally, the two are best friends.
  • Another but later example (spoilered out) is Daniel and the Vyron Sniper Elensa (part of the Nanayoukai* command wing of the Vyron). Daniel's distant and aloof and quiet to most folks keeping to himself. Elensa on the other hand is full on emotion-aholic oftentimes obsessed or passionate about what she's doing. Interestingly, the two have a history together as rivals in the field of sniping. She is madly in love with him. (Especially madly.) This was due to a prior showdown many years earlier.

I have more I know that, but these two are sufficient for this post.

"Allah may guide their bullets, but Jesus helps those who aim down the sights."
dRoy Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar from Most likely from my study Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
#5: Apr 14th 2011 at 6:39:35 AM

In my story....

I'm a (socialist) professional writer serializing a WWII alternate history webnovel.
cityofmist turning and turning from Meanwhile City Since: Dec, 2010
turning and turning
#6: Apr 14th 2011 at 9:19:36 AM

My protagonist, Aurelia, and her partner, Cal; they both had slightly dysfunctional childhoods (Aurelia was raised to be a useful asset to her politically powerful family, while Cal's parents were collateral damage in a political murder when he was thirteen) which have left Aurelia as The Stoic, a Deadpan Snarker and a firm believer in Grey-and-Gray Morality and Cal as a nice, if very emotional guy who hates any kind of callousness. Contrary to all expectations (including, for a while, mine) they do not at any point start dating.

Scepticism and doubt lead to study and investigation, and investigation is the beginning of wisdom. - Clarence Darrow
animemetalhead Runs on Awesomeness from Ashwood Landing, ME Since: Apr, 2010
Runs on Awesomeness
#7: Apr 14th 2011 at 2:35:59 PM

My hero and her lancer.

Yuki is cold, calculating, and tries to think before she acts.

Leo is brash, emotional, and likes jump in, sword swinging.

Both use similar fighting styles, Yuki is a Kung-Fu Wizard while Leo is a Magic Knight. Each one thinks they're the hero, and they rub off on each other quite a bit.

No one believes me when I say angels can turn their panties into guns.
FreezairForALimitedTime Responsible adult from Planet Claire Since: Jan, 2001
Responsible adult
#8: Apr 14th 2011 at 3:11:22 PM

I am definitely guilty of creating unintentional foils. Probably because I Write Who I Know, and I'm one of a real-life Red Oni, Blue Oni pair*

. A couple of my examples:

  • In my Wordkeepers series, Alex is a foil to both The Hero Nick, and The Lancer/The Smart Guy Ran.
    • Alex and Ran are both Fish out of Water characters, who have discovered late in their teens that they are mages—Ran because she was given her True Name at birth semi-accidentally, and Alex because he was adopted from a mage family. Both of them were thrust into the magical world in rather traumatic ways. Both of them are reckless and careless with their new abilities. Their reactions are different, however. Ran, described as the group "mad scientist," rises to the occasion with curiosity; she sees her new surroundings as a mystery to be unraveled. Her recklessness stems from curiosity, and testing her limits. Alex reacts with antipathy, and becomes withdrawn. His recklessness stems from close-mindedness, and a refusal to learn what's safe.
    • Alex and Nick both had less-than-sparkly childhoods, and both tend to be somewhat antisocial. Both of them hail from somewhat aristocratic families: Nick's is huge and stretches beyond his parents, but he's been hiding from it. Alex's was much smaller, but the people he was adopted by were also wealthy, albiet more noveau rich. Both of them are orphans, though they were orphaned at different ages. However, while Nick slowly learns to come out of his shell, and ends up being Not So Stoic, Alex is much ruder and secluded from others. They also react very differently to conflict; Nick tends to want to avoid it, and, if he ends up in it, he wants to end it quickly and without much harm to any side. Alex, however, is The Combat Pragmatist, and is unfraid to kill if need be.

On the other hand, in my novel Always a Hero, the two obvious and intentional foils are Cora and Boyse. Both of them are Deadpan Snarkers with rather abrasive and insulting tendencies, and both of them are incredibly certain that each of them knows best, whatever the situation may be. They're both hotheaded, and those hot heads collide very frequently. But the person with the "advantage" changes as the story goes on— while Boyse starts out seeming "more right" than Cora, since she is unecessarily rude and casually selfish, eventually Boyse ends up being completely dominated by his grudge towards her, to the point where he becomes consumed with putting her down—to the detriment of the world they're trying to save.

"Proto-Indo-European makes the damnedest words related. It's great. It's the Kevin Bacon of etymology." ~Madrugada
chihuahua0 Since: Jul, 2010
#9: Apr 14th 2011 at 3:44:42 PM

Hmm...Justin Peterson and Landras, and pretty much every duo I have.

edited 14th Apr '11 3:45:05 PM by chihuahua0

Ronka87 Maid of Win from the mouth of madness. Since: Jun, 2009
Maid of Win
#10: Apr 15th 2011 at 12:37:10 PM

I'm another one who creates foils unintentionally. I think it stems from the idea that you want to create characters who aren't repeats of each other, so you make them as different as possible. Also, the more different they are, the more often they'll clash, and conflict drives stories.

Probably my favourite pair of co-star foils are from my epic fantasy. Lian's a rebel leader, a tactician who is always thinking up ways to fight the good fight. She grew up poor, isn't well-educated, and hates the nobility, who she blames for the invasion of the country. She's very suspicious and critical, but has a deep connection to and empathy for the common man— almost to the point of fanaticism. She's also very short.

Kuei is the King Incognito of the country, who stumbled on Lian's rebel band while fleeing the invaders. He's good-natured but kind of an idiot— he was a figurehead king, so he's well-educated, but very naive. He feels embarrassed by his poor leadership and is trying to help the war effort any way he can. He's also over six feet tall in a world where men are usually only about 5'9.

Needless to say, they clash often. I like the setup they have, because it allows for conflict but also growth. My plan for this story is to have Kuei eventually take on a lot of Lian's leadership characteristics; Lian, in turn, would mellow out a bit and learn to balance her extremist views. I made them opposites height-wise because: 1) originally it was a comic and I wanted a better contrast; 2) I like the idea that Lian, shorty short, is more mature than Kuei; 3) it adds a level of insecurity to Lian, who is always struggling to be taken seriously by others, while Kuei has this natural air of authority because he literally dominates every room he's in.

Thanks for the all fish!
SPACETRAVEL from ☉ Since: Oct, 2010
#11: Apr 15th 2011 at 2:13:24 PM

-Demetrius London and Baron Hans Lyon, and I'm afraid it's nothing unique, just a Spock and McCoy thing (respectively). They're both called upon for similar tasks, but, well. Demetrius plays a similar role as foil to Lux III, with both being creepy children and the latter being the impulsive one who is more inclined to play situations by ear even though he could plot like a motherfucker just as well as Demetrius if he wanted to.

-This one hasn't really got the opportunity to play out yet, but when both characters were alive, Inspector Takei and Aubrey London had the (respective) red and blue thing going on. They are friends who are both markedly dark, and without being bad. The former is quite expressive—and obviously mentally unstable. He will dive into anything that might kill him. The latter delivered this line in a completely conversational and deadpan manner:

"This was my idea: does [your zombie minion] have to smash their heads in? And do whatever it is [your zombie minion named Mort] does with the brain. You leave quite a mess when you take it out. For lack of a better phrase, projectile bleeding. Masks and gloves are of no protection—with the disheartening number of rogues who dare to disrespect you, [ill crime lady who is hemhorraging black fluid all over the office], [we in the mortuary business] go through full suits like socks. If [your zombie minion who wears a Prohibition-era suit and sweet hat] must kill them at all, would [your zombie minion who you keep talking about like he's your cat] object to switching to poison, perhaps, or a lethal injection? As a favor to us, who clean up after him."
He sees just as many dangerous things (in fact...), but just walks into them. Kind of like Mordor.

Conclusion: the Londons were put on their earth to give everyone a blue oni. It actually sounds plausible.

edited 15th Apr '11 2:14:15 PM by SPACETRAVEL

whoever wrote this shit needs to step on a rake in a comedic fashion
annebeeche watching down on us from by the long tidal river Since: Nov, 2010
watching down on us
#12: Apr 16th 2011 at 10:06:11 AM

I'm giving in to the urge and dumping some of my own foils:

  • Beowulf and Heardred: semi-intentional. They're first cousins and princes of Geatland. The latter is an ideal Scandinavian prince, while the former is very far from ideal. Heardred has a lot of self-confidence, while Beowulf doesn't. Heardred is kind of a prick, while Beowulf strives to be nice to people. Don't get me wrong, though, both guys are hopelessly spoiled, just in completely different ways.
  • Hygd and Beowulf's mother: intentional. Hygd is the wife of Hygelac the king (Beowulf's uncle), and Beowulf's mother is Hygelac's sister. They're both motherly figures for Beowulf. Beowulf's mom is upset that Beowulf isn't anything like his late father and is subtly abusive in that regard, working with Hygelac to turn him into a "proper" man. Hygd, on the other hand, understands Beowulf and supports him in what he actually can do (skaldry, playing the lyre). Hygd and Beowulf's mother clash a lot.
  • Hygelac and Hrothgar: unintentional. Hygelac is King of Geatland, and Hrothgar is King of the Scyldings. Hrothgar is actually a fairly weak King with little confidence and power (partly because he's old, partly because of trauma from Grendel), while Hygelac is as reckless as his name suggests. On the other hand, Hrothgar is far more strategic than Hygelac. He is also, ultimately, a nicer and more generous King.

edited 16th Apr '11 10:06:21 AM by annebeeche

Banned entirely for telling FE that he was being rude and not contributing to the discussion. I shall watch down from the goon heavens.
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