Not a trope about swords or stones Crowner Changed 10/24/11: Sword In The Stone

First of all, there's the fact that the trope name is one "The" away from becoming the title of two works. I wouldn't have a problem with that if the trope were actually about swords stuck into stones, but the trope is a tad broader than that: it's about "certain special items that only an attuned person can use". What's more, the name would be better served attached to a trope that's actually about swords in stones.

So I suggest a split: one one hand we remove the examples that involve "items that only an attuned person can use" into a new trope (assuming we don't have it already), and we keep Sword In The Stone as a trope about stories that use Swords in Stones as a homage to the Arthurian story.

Avatar art by Lorna-Ka.

So this is basically something that only its Chosen One(s) can acquire or wield? Isn't that Loyal Phlebotinum?

Hmm, at < 100 wicks, let's classify the usage. Gimme a few minutes to tally them up...

Emphasis on a literal something-in-a-stone:

• All Myths Are True (image caption)
• Madman
• Golden Sun Dark Dawn
• Implausible Fencing Powers
• Kagerou
• Lunar The Silver Star
• Characters.Mai-HiME
• Nodwick
• Secret Of Mana and wicks:
  • Double Subversion
  • Never Accepted in His Hometown
  • The Chosen One
• Shadow Hearts and wicks:
  • Improbable Weapon User
• Sticks to the Back (The Legend OF Zelda The Wind Waker example)
• Characters.Tales Of The Visitors
• The Wheel Of Time

Emphasis on something only usable by its chosen one(s):

• Batman The Brave And The Bold
• Silent Mobius
• Artifact of Death (see also)
• Chasing Time (and Characters.Chasing Time)
• Characters.Fate Nuovo Guerra
• Finders Rulers
• Forgotten Realms (?)
• Characters.Green Lantern
• Characters.Harry Potter Factions
• Inuyasha
• Prince Valiant
• Soul Eater (and Characters.Soul Eater)
• Superpowered Evil Side (Wild Arms 2 example)
• The Blue Sword
• Characters.The Digimon Epics
• The Iron Dream
• The Savage Dragon
• Witchblade

Both of the above, not necesarily Arthurian reference:

• Der Ring Des Nibelungen (sword + ash tree + Siegmund)
  • Richard Wagner (same mention)
• Ichiban Ushiro No Dai Maou (?)
• Journey To The West (?)
• Nintendo Power (The Legend Of Zelda example)
• Power Rangers Lost Galaxy

Deliberately Arthurian reference (the Sword In The Stone):

• Arthur King Of Time And Space
• Chain of Deals (House Of Mouse example)
• Dark Age Europe (index)
• Excalibur
• Excalibur in the Stone
• Fate Stay Night
• Genius Bonus (Tears To Tiara example)
• King Arthur (strangely enough)
• Stock Weapon Names
• The Once And Future King
• Disney.The Sword In The Stone
• Thomas Malory
• TheDresdenFiles.Tropes N-Z

Mistaken for The Sword In The Stone, the work:

• Chaotic Evil (Disney example)
• Science Fiction Versus Fantasy (Kingdom Hearts's Merlin)

I have no idea:

• Always Chaotic Evil (Kyou Kara Maou example)
• Characters.Bionicle
• Doraleous And Associates
• Earth Abides
• JustBugsMe.Furry Fandom
• Graham Mc Neill
• Horus Heresy
• Ikki Tousen
• Juushin Enbu
• Katanas Are Just Better (Dragon Quest example)
• Oglaf
• Ramayana (Impossible Task?)
• DarthWiki.Scarlet Sanctuary
• Space Wolf
• Strike Witches (? — What Do You Mean, It's Not Symbolic?)
• Swat Kats
• DarthWiki.Terra Course
• The Last Rune
• The Legend Of Korah
• Unskilled, but Strong (Fate Stay Night example)

Exempt:

• Cool Sword (supertrope/index)
• Tropers.Ghilz (troperpage)
• I Like Swords (supertrope/index)
• TropeNamers.Religion And Myth
• Pantheon.Treasures (Just for Fun)
• Weapons and Wielding Tropes (index)

edited 3rd Mar '11 8:42:09 PM by Stratadrake

An Ear Worm is like a Rickroll: It is never going to give you up.

Yeah, I agree with splitting.

Have The Sword In The Stone be the name for homages on that, while have "items attuned to a specific character" be... Character Specific Attuned Item?

Death is a companion. We should cherish Death as we cherish Life.

Done analyzing the wicks.

BTW, how does "only usable by its chosen one" compare to Loyal Phlebotinum?

An Ear Worm is like a Rickroll: It is never going to give you up.

It looks like there is some confusion happening.

I think a rename is in order here. There's some misuse going on and it shares its name with a work, so it seems clear that the title is bad.

edited 3rd Mar '11 8:33:42 PM by troacctid

Rhymes with "Protracted."

I had a little difficulty sorting the wicks into each category.

An Ear Worm is like a Rickroll: It is never going to give you up.

Only the Chosen May Wield?

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.

^ Before checking every page, I know that that must be the name for one trope. It immediately calls to mind a particular trope.

I will now actually check that the thread is about that trope.

EDIT: Yes it is. I want that name.

Loyal Phlebotinum is a subtrope, possibly even just a sister trope. The "loyalty" is stricter behaviour while "the chosen" is a dropped requirement.

edited 4th Mar '11 11:12:00 AM by SomeSortOfTroper

Chosen By The Phlebotinum?

But soft! What rock through yonder window breaks? It is a brick! And Juliet is out cold.

Chosen By The MacGuffin?

An Ear Worm is like a Rickroll: It is never going to give you up.

Chosen By Excalibur? Assuming it's a weapon of some kind.

Fight smart, not fair.

Sword In The Stone was a pre-existing phrase before the movie, or the book. In fact the book took it from one of many versions of the King Arthur story.

It's the most famous example.

It's the most parodied example.

The example is known almost exclusively for selecting the king and/or Chosen One.

It's achieved cultural osmosis status.

It's not an uncommon way to describe this trope by people off wiki. I've had authors describe a plot development as a "Sword In The Stone scenario" or "like the Sword In The Stone".

Because of the above I think the best thing to do would be to tighten the description to attuned artifacts that are evidence of a character's role. (ie, being able to wield this weapon means he must be the chosen one, or he's the special sidekick who will support the chosen one, or whatever.)

Maybe add "Scenario" to the end.

By the way, has there been any evidence of misuse?

edited 5th Mar '11 8:19:49 AM by Sackett

It's not always thought of as this trope. It's often mistaken for Excalibur these days.

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.

People are confusing it with "Swords in stones." [1]

Rhymes with "Protracted."

But are those just some old sword stuck in a stone?

Or are they swords that are attuned to their owner, and the ability to pull it free proves the person is the hero or whatever?

Going by the count in the post you cited, among those identified, about 1/2 are attuned, 1/4 are homages to Arthur (meaning that they are lampshading this trope), about 1/3 emphasize the sword in the stone part (and I checked a couple of those, the All Myths Are True one really ought to be considered an Arthur homage).

When someone says: "Sword in the Stone" they always mean the sword that gets pulled from the stone to prove Arthur is the true king.

When they say "Excalibur", they might mean the sword in the stone, or they might mean the sword given Arthur by the lady of the lake. So there is confusion, but it's only confusion when we use the sword's name. When the sword is called the Sword In The Stone, then we know which Excalibur they mean, and people know that the sword in the stone is the one that proves who is king.

Which is why I say this isn't a bad name for a trope about an item that is attuned to a person, and so the ability to use that item marks the person as the Chosen One or whatever the special deal is for the user of that item.

edited 5th Mar '11 2:18:23 PM by Sackett

If the confusion is about the sword's name, that means it's relevant to the trope name.

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.

Yes...

Which is why I think naming it something with the sword's name, like "Excalibur Chooses The King" is worse then naming it Sword In The Stone.

Since you see... the name is the confusing part. No one is confused about what the Sword in the Stone is, or what the trope is that is associated with it.

The confusion is in one direction:

If I say: Excalibur -> Does he mean Sword In The Stone (sword that chooses the king), or does he mean the sword given by the lady of the lake (the powerful magical blade?)

If I say Sword In The Stone -> Ahh, he means the sword that chooses the King.

edited 5th Mar '11 2:23:12 PM by Sackett

The question is, if this trope has nothing to do with swords in stones, why are half of its wicks specifically referring to swords in stones? I seriously doubt that the "Sword in the stone" variation is the most common form of this trope by that wide a margin. If the trope name were working, we would expect it to attract examples whether or not they involve a sword being stuck in something, and that's not happening. Thus, it's not being correctly used.

Rhymes with "Protracted."

Since it's not always pre-"loyal" to someone specific and not always narrowed to the Chosen One, i propose simple Only The Worthy May Use.

After all, the trope is close in purpose and use to Only the Worthy May Pass.

...And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense - R.W.Wood

There is no difference that I can discern from what this trope is supposed to be and Loyal Phlebotinum, except that might be used specifically for weapons, which is silly. Keep this page but rework it so it's about literal swords in stones, since the Arthurian legend has become homaged, parodied and played with enough that it can be its own trope. All examples of "weapon that only the chosen one can use" should be moved to Loyal Phlebotinum.

edited 18th Mar '11 4:22:51 PM by MC42

"Thorough preparation must lead to success. Neglect nothing."

If an example is "Only the chosen one can take the MacGuffin" but with no Loyal Phlebotinum, does this count as the trope? Because several of the "misused" examples would fit this description.

If this isn't part of the trope, it should be something.

Australia The country with a 2 party system But all the power with independents

bump

bump

Sword In The Stone was a pre-existing phrase before the movie, or the book. In fact the book took it from one of many versions of the King Arthur story.

It's the most famous example.

It's the most parodied example.

The example is known almost exclusively for selecting the king and/or Chosen One.

It's achieved cultural osmosis status.

It's not an uncommon way to describe this trope by people off wiki. I've had authors describe a plot development as a "Sword In The Stone scenario" or "like the Sword In The Stone".

I am not surprised at all that one third the examples use the actual "Sword Stuck In a Stone proves The Chosen One" scenario, since it's so massively referenced everywhere.

I haven't seen much evidence of misuse. Going by the count in the post listing examples, among those identified, about 1/2 are attuned, 1/4 are homages to Arthur (meaning that they are lampshading this trope), about 1/3 emphasize the sword in the stone part (and I checked a couple of those, the All Myths Are True one really ought to be considered an Arthur homage. The Wheel Of Time one is clearly an example of this trope as drawing the Sword is explicitly the prophecy that identifies the Chosen One).

Because of the above I think the best thing to do would be to tighten the description to attuned artifacts that are evidence of a character's role. (ie, being able to wield this weapon means he must be the chosen one, or he's the special sidekick who will support the chosen one, or whatever.)

Maybe add "Scenario" to the end of the name, so it's Sword In The Stone Scenario.

edited 22nd Sep '11 6:18:59 AM by Sackett

Again, the absence of several prominent fictional examples of the trope which are not swords in stones—Thor's Mjolnir, The Elder Wand from the Harry Potter series, the Vampire Killer whip in Castlevania, Kyle Rayner's Green Lantern ring (and possibly others), EVA Unit 01 in Neon Genesis Evangelion, (arguably) most weapons in Metal Gear Solid 4—very strongly suggest that the name and picture (which is Just A Sword And A Caption, with no indication that the sword is attuned to a particular user), and the Arthur-focused description are making people think that this trope is only about swords in stones.

Avatar art by Lorna-Ka.