redefine & rename (new crowner Oct 29): I Got Better

There's a lot of misuse of this trope, and it seems to be because people are mistaking it for a Stock Phrase, rather than what it is (Back from the Dead with absolutely zero explanation). So I propose a soft split: Type 1 is the current trope, while type 2 is when characters use the invoke the trope name (generally as a Shout-Out to Monty Python), whether there actually is a good explanation or not. EDIT: I somehow managed to create this discussion in such a way that it doesn't show a trope repair shop tag on the I Got Better page. If someone knows how to fix that, it'd be appreciated.

edited 27th Jan '11 5:39:39 PM by Discar

I fixed the trope-thread attachment problem so there is now a banner on the I Got Better page.

I am a bit unsure about a split. On one hand, I can understand that it would probably be quite difficult to cut out all examples that were just uses of the Stock Phrase. On the other hand, while I definitely think that your type 1 description of the trope is a trope, I do not think that type 2 is a trope.

My impression is that uses of a trope name as shout outs to the name itself rather than the meaning of the trope are typically frowned upon as misuse of a trope. If we soft split this one then I think that might encourage people to misuse other tropes in a similar way and I think that would not be a good idea. Now, I suppose we could soft split most of those tropes too, but I still think that both parts of a soft split need to be able to be justified as tropes. Feel free to disagree with me there though.

edited 27th Jan '11 5:50:18 PM by LouieW

I personally think a lot of the potholes for this are more semi-snarky remarks on certain mediums or works where Death Is Cheap, like comic books. As in:

"Super Bob died during the Crisis Crossover (he got better)."

Uses like this are more about death being cheap then about coming back from the dead without explanation. At least some of the time, there will be an explanation for this sort of thing.

Not sure if that needs fixing or not, but it's worth noting.

We could have such examples link to Back from the Dead or Death Is Cheap, depending on the series.

You're probably right, although I do understand where the idea is coming from. If Super Bob is an A-list superhero, the details of his resurrection don't really matter - he'll get better no matter what. Death Is Cheap still probably sums up the situation better, though.

This is the second thread on the topic (I know because I made the first one).

Misuse of this trope comes in two forms:

1 - Using it in cases where the explanation for a character's recovery is explicitly known in the canon. Remember, I Got Better only applies to cases where there is no other explanation, because I Got Better is the explanation.

2 - Using it as a generic Stock Phrase when the context is really something else, like It Gets Better, Took a Level in Badass, Rescued from the Scrappy Heap, Character Development (et al infinitum).

Since this trope is meant to be type I, the usage of tropes as a phrase should be cut. And this trope, should probably get a rename to show a handwave on a No One Could Survive That!. Possibly, Guess Someone Could Survive That.

I definitely agree with renaming. This is a trope I tend to see misused more than used right.

There are 3427 wicks, counting redirects, so I need to sample ~60 pages to check for misuse.

I'm going to grab every third page starting from the A's (because linking ptitles is a pain with the ~ markup borked) for the main title and skipping Sandbox, Contributer, and Index pages.

For the purposes of a "correct" wick, I'm not going to be familiar with all of this media, so some of them might actually look correct but aren't for one reason or another.

• ABLU Haired Medic - Correct
• Abuse Is Okay When It Is Female On Male - Incorrect, used to mean a person's flaw got better.
• Acceptable Nationality Targets - Incorrect. Used to mean New Orleans was not completely destroyed.
• Ace Lightning - Correct
• Action Bomb - Correct
• Advance Wars Role Play - Correct
• Afraid Of Needles - Incorrect, used to mean someone got over a fear.
• A Game of Gods - Correct
• Agony Beam - Correct
• Akai Ito - Correct

• Alastair Reynolds - Incorrect, used to mean a character recovers their original memories/personality.
• Alice19th - Correct
• Alien Lunch - Correct
• Alive The Final Evolution - Incorrect, used to mean a character recovers from amnesia.
• All for Nothing - Correct
• All Love Is Unrequited - Incorrect, used to mean life gets better.
• Altar the Speed - Incorrect, used to mean two characters get back together after splitting up (what?).
• Always Save the Girl - Incorrect, used to mean a character recovered from a brain tumor.
• American Dragon Jake Long - Incorrect, used for character development.
• An Arm and a Leg - Incorrect, a character recovers from having his arms and leg blown off.

• And Show It to You - Correct as far as I can tell
• Angel - Incorrect, used to mean a character recovers his memories.
• Angel Beats! - Incorrect, used to mean a character recovers after being demoted to an NPC.
• Anguished Declaration of Love - Can't tell. Appears incorrect, though.
• Anime - Correct
• Anime - Correct
• Anime - Incorrect, used to mean a character driven insane gets better.
• Anime - Correct
• Anime & Manga - Correct
• Anime & Manga - Correct

• Anime & Manga - Incorrect, used to mean a character whose Berserk Button was pushed gets better.
• Animorphism - Incorrect, used to mean a character that was turned into a newt gets better.
• Antagonist in Mourning - Correct
• Anyone Can Die - Incorrect, surprisingly, used to mean a character reduced to a dumb beast recovers.
• A Plague on Both Your Houses - Correct
• Apologises A Lot - Incorrect, used to mean getting over a character flaw
• Archangel Michael - Correct
• Arcia Chronicles - Incorrect, used to mean a character survives against impossible odds
• Ardy Lightfoot - Correct
• Artemis Fowl - Correct

• Artifact of Death - Correct
• Ascended Extra - Correct
• As Long as There Is Evil - Correct
• A Song of Ice and Fire - Incorrect, character survived grave wounds but not without consequences or explanation.
• A-Team Firing - Uncertain. The characters survive being shot, but it doesn't say if it was fatal.
• Atop the Fourth Wall - Incorrect, character recovers from Heroic BSoD.
• Author Appeal - Incorrect, character recovers after being turned into a human blueberry (what?)
• Avatars II When Qwaritch Takes Revenge - Correct
• Awful Truth - Incorrect, person recovers from leukemia.
• Babylon5 - Correct

• Back from the Dead - Correct
• Badass in Distress - Correct
• Bad Boss - Incorrect, used to mean a character's arms have regenerated
• Bakugan - Correct
• Banjo-Kazooie - Uncertain, no context
• Batman And Robin - Correct
• Batman Beyond Return Of The Joker - Correct
• Battle Butler - Correct
• Battle Of The Network Tans - Incorrect, used to mean character gets over a flaw
• Bayonetta - Incorrect, Brainwashed and Crazy character gets better.

Okay that's 32 correct uses, 26 misuses, and 2 unknowns.

That's 45% misuse, folks.

edited 28th Feb '11 8:46:18 AM by ccoa

One of the key requirements for this trope is that the character's recovery is never explained. It has no explanation given, whether in-universe and/or for the audience's benefit. So if there's a clearly defined explanation (I remember citing Ivanova's recovery from Only Mostly Dead as a misuse) for the recovery, it's misuse. So the Monty Python quote in Animorphism may or may not be misuse, just dictated less on the fate he recovered from and more by whether or not anyone knows why/how he did it.

edited 28th Feb '11 10:23:37 AM by Stratadrake

According to the trope description, the character has to die, or at least last be seen in a situation that no one should be able to survive, in addition to turning up alive and unharmed with no information given. So that example still isn't correct, since being turned into a newt isn't normally fatal in fiction in and of itself.

EDIT: These are the key requirements of the trope:

• The character either dies or is last seen in a No One Could Survive That! sort of situation.
• The character comes back.
  • Often, but not always, without any serious injuries or psychological problems.
• No real explanation for their survival is ever given.

So this is yet another case where the Trope Namer is not even an example of the trope. We have a fairly narrow trope, but a very broad title.

edited 28th Feb '11 11:46:30 AM by ccoa

The title happens to be one of the catchier Stock Phrases for the trope, though at the risk of being read too literally.

As for the Trope Namer, Baleful Polymorph can be a nonlethal way to "get rid of" someone.

First things first, the Trope Namer quote's got to go, because displaying a non-example front and top does nothing to contribute understanding to the trope.

Second thing, rename. The trope namer isn't an example, and for nerds, it isn't notable as an example either, and is used elsewhere to mean something other than the trope.

Okay, how about this:

Redefine I Got Better to be about whenever a character recovers from or survives something serious, usually something that they wouldn't be able to recover from easily (or at all), without explanation given. Rename it to something less likely to be abused, like Inexplicable Recovery or Unexplained Recovery.

edited 1st Mar '11 8:18:53 AM by ccoa

So for example: if we saw a character's leg get cut off- hey we might as well use the Black Knight, also from Monty Python And The Holy Grail- if we see the Black Knight get his leg cut off but then he turned up later, all limbs attached, with no explanation; before that would not be an example, after what you said, it would be.

Exactly. It seems there is a broader trope here than just a Death Trope.

Use I've seen seems to be a stock phrase about getting over something, and that's the Hand Wave.

I'm actually surprised that the misuse was only 45%. In my experience it's seemed to be near 100% misuse as the Stock Phrase.

The trope name I Got Better is completely unworkable in my opinion. It sounds like something very broad, and it's being used for that very broad idea in almost half of it's uses. And it's something that's too broad to be a trope - recovering from something (and that something is everything from death to personality flaws to romantic issues) is not a trope.

A rename is desperately in order. Redifining and/or splitting may be, but I don't see a way to make the current title work at all.

And I even volunteer to clean wicks, although I'd appreciate help with almost 3500 to do. @.@

edited 1st Mar '11 2:53:44 PM by ccoa

I remember there being several proposed alternatives in the previous thread, like Unexplained Recovery.

Unexplained Recovery sounds good but wouldnt that include instant recovery from Comedy examples like Amusing Injuries.

edited 1st Mar '11 3:13:47 PM by Raso

Not sure. The explanation for Amusing Injuries is often Rule of Funny.

The page should probably include a short note to explain how it's different from Amusing Injuries anyway.

So, probably crowner time.

The problem is that there are a lot of examples that don't actually fit, but they still do for humor. For example, the current page quote:

->Nassana: Shepard? But... you're dead! ->Commander Shepard: I got better. —>— Mass Effect 2

He did not "get better." There was a very detailed explanation—it took two years, the most advanced medical technology in the universe, and ungodly sums of money to bring him back. However, within the context of that conversation, its used perfectly: Shepard never gives Nassana a more detailed answer than "I got better." That's why I was thinking allowing for use as a Stock Phrase to continue.

I'd suggest re-purposing I Got Better for the stock phrase, but then it would be misused for the trope. I really don't think it's a good idea to continue to let the trope decay, however. Using it for both "unexplained recovery" and "stock phrase 'I got better'" is too broad, and we still have the problem of rampant misuse for neither definition.

If you want, however, you can add that option to the crowner. Let the voting masses decide. :)

edited 8th Mar '11 12:11:44 PM by ccoa