It's probably not a good idea to insult an entire subsection of a genre "Just the existence of Christian metal" yeah no, citing the Rule Of Cautious Editing Judgement, I'm removing that. If you want it put back then you can discuss it here.
Edited "Jesus, Take the Wheel." Hope I kept the essence. But we do gotta remember that Christians sometimes stumble onto this wiki.
There is a fine line between recklessness and courage — Paul McCartney Hide / Show Replies
I read the example, but I don't get where the actual Narm lies. Obviously someone finds the premise Narmful, but the description given seems sillier then the real thing— Basically, she's bogged down with the general stress of life (like driving so far with a baby on Christmas Eve) and has been ignoring God. She loses control of her car and starts praying, which is set up for a metaphor about God taking the "steering wheel" in her life, which is the main subject of the song.
Granted, that's a weird metaphor. Not the best. But it's hardly "Random accident with a baby on Christmas Eve. Then God saves the day and she stops her unspecified sin."
Actually a girl.
Elemental Savant
"Vandalism as retribution for a crime that she has no evidence he committed. Even the singer herself isn't sure; she keeps saying, "He's probably (insert PG-13-rated infidelity here)" and presents no hard evidence that he did anything wrong to begin with."
Isn't the "probably" bit ther because she's thinking about what he's doing "right now"? The line is specifically "Right now, he's probably…" In other words, the singer knows he's with his mistress, but she's not actively spying on them or anything.
And does a song about the act of revenge have to discuss in detail how she found the infidelity to begin with? No. The song's about the revenge, not about what led up to it.
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Right...I'd always assumed that she knew he was cheating. It doesn't change the Fridge Logic, though.
Ah yes, the famous Carrie Underwood song Before He Cheats. I don't know for sure if that was meant to be taken seriously, and (if it's of relevance at all) it was written by a couple of guys anyway. Now granted, there are a couple of conclusions one could come to regarding the speaker (either that she knows he's being unfaithful to her*, and is making estimated guesses, or she's just an overly-paranoid Ax-Crazy Yandere who's overreacting to him probably just doing something innocent), but either way, it's basically a somewhat "Haha, try cheating on me now, bitch!" kind of song than "That heartless cheater broke my heart, and for this HE MUST PAY!" But for anyone who is willing to take it seriously, there is much narm to be had...
Edited by Stoogebie
To add to what I said yesterday, here's the difference between narm and harm:
- "The song was meant to be deep, heartfelt and emotional...but the singer was such a Large Ham, and/or one lyric had a rather Unusual Euphemism of a metaphor, it was unintentionally funny"
- "The song was bad enough, and just the mere fact that the singer pretends they have any talent to speak of, combined with the fact that I just don't like them or the song, whether it was meant to be taken seriously or not..." etc., etc.
Mweheheh
Agreed. Almost half the examples are little more than just "X artist/group sucks and can't sing period, but they really suck with this in particular". We get it, you don't like them, the f***s I give are totaling in the negatives - last I checked this was for "unintentionally funny moments when the intent was serious/dramatic", not "License To Whine, the musical edition".
Okay, I'm a bit confused on this right now...this is the "Narm" (read: unintentionally funny when drama or seriousness was the intent) entry, right? I kept thinking it was "Bashing Music/Artists I Don't Particularly Care For"...I had to keep scrolling to the top of the page to remind myself. There were some examples listed that managed to convey the idea without completely insulting the artist, but a lot of them were just "Of course, X is already a poor excuse for a band/musician anyway..." Wow. TV Tropes, can we try not to be rude and nasty here? Good God...
Sen
"Most of the song "If I Die Young" by The Band Perry is very nice and somewhat poetic"
I can't say this on the page, but can I have what you're smoking?
Probably should get working on that essay now...
Mweheheh
Very Manly Muppet
Why is it that the whole emo genre does not count as an example of narm? It's THE example of narm, as the whole premise of emo is that it's a bunch of whiny boys in tight jeans singing about how lame they are!
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If you have a specific example of a song that was supposed to be dramatic but instead people find funny, add it. Unless you've heard every entry in the genre and can confirm that it all fits, I don't think it counts as an example. (I don't know if there's a rule on that sort of thing, though.)
People come to read individual examples, not one person's opinion on an entire genre.
Actually a girl.
What's with the comment about Whiskey in the Jar and being Irish? Clearly there's something I'm missing here, because I've never found it anything other than a nice tune sung by Luke Kelly, who has a great voice.
Re the Tristania example:
It is legit Narm, but that is a valid use of "secrete." Or was until recently. The dominant meaning these days is the biological one, but there was also the meaning "to hide something for safekeeping."
There is a fine line between recklessness and courage — Paul McCartney Hide / Show Replies
Is it that legit of a narm when it's a Did Not Do The Research on the audience's part though?
Edited by Catalogue The words above are to be read as if they are narrated by Morgan Freeman.
Jackass Detector
Re-added the Insane Clown Posse entry. Why do I get the feeling the person who keeps removing it is nothing more than an annoyed Juggalo? His stated reason for deleted amounted to "durr, it's not supposed to be serious and you put it in the wrong genre". I don't care if the song was done in jest or in all seriousness, there's a difference between laughing with someone and laughing at them.
Edited by KitsuneInferno "It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one’s mouth and remove all doubt." - Some guy with a snazzy hat. Hide / Show Replies
If you're laughing at them, you're missing the point, and you're not in a neutral standpoint to discuss the song. It clearly doesn't fit the definition of narm, and repeatedly adding it makes this website contradict itself.
I've said it before, I'll say it again: ICP saying that they weren't serious about the song reeks of Parody Retcon. I don't think the song was 100% serious (ie. they probably aren't trying to be anti-science), but it's certainly not a joke song either, not in the sense that it was intended for humourous purposes.
And you do seem to be an annoyed Juggalo, which makes your "not in a neutral standpoint" comment rather hypocritical.
last.fm | RYM
Not aware of itself? So, that means we get rid of anything related to Immortal or Manowar?
Well, let's take a look at what the main page defines as Narm:
A Narm is a moment that is supposed to be serious, but due to either over-sappiness, poor execution, excessive Melodrama, or the sheer absurdity of the situation, the drama is lost to the point of becoming unintentionally funny. It can be extremely subjective.
It is named for the famous scene in the last season of Six Feet Under, where the main character Nate suffers a brain embolism. He suddenly grabs his right arm and repeats "Numb arm!", but it quickly becomes "N'arm! N'arm!" Despite being the climax of one of the best shows HBO has ever created, the scene was overwhelmingly found by fans and reviewers to be funny rather than sad.
Were you to discuss this phenomenon in a scholarly work or literary circles, the word you would probably use is "bathos." Though all the implications of the technical term do not match up exactly, it's a fairly good fit. If you're talking to non-tropers and don't want to have to make fun of the unintentional comedy of brain embolisms, that's probably the word you want to use.
Not to be confused with the Funny Aneurysm Moment, in which something wasn't meant to be upsetting but is, thanks to later events or unfortunate Reality Subtext.
Narm often stems from a failed attempt to pull off a Crowning Moment Of Awesome, a Crowning Moment Of Heartwarming or a Tear Jerker. Alternatively, a good performance in a bad movie will evoke Narm because the actor Took The Bad Film Seriously. Anything that falls under Wangst and Deus Angst Machina runs the risk of falling under Narm, as what is intended to be angsty and dramatic can instead come across as over-the-top ridiculous and absurd. In subtitled anime, Narms are often created through the use of badly used English, with Totally Radical dialog in general being another rich source of Narm. In dubbed anime, Narms are more likely to result from the combination of a budding William Shatner reading an overly-literal translation.
See also Nightmare Retardant and many cases of Snark Bait, as well as Fetish Retardant for erotica (of which the Swedish home furnishings variety is a particularly good source of Narm). Not to be confused with 'Nam (which is generally slightly less funny) or the Narn.
Keep in mind that Narm is subjective, as one person's cheese is another person's charm. However, Narm is not when something simply falls flat or "doesn't work"; this is not a page for simply complaining about scenes you didn't like.
A number of examples of Narm become memes.
Contrast with Narm Charm, where somehow, the drama still works.
Nothing there about it not ever being aware of itself, although I didn't check the history so maybe something was removed. This sentence —
However, Narm is not when something simply falls flat or "doesn't work"; this is not a page for simply complaining about scenes you didn't like. — has made me think; what if "Miracles" was originally put on the list just to complain about it, rather than because the troper found the song Narmful?
Edited by Lordnecronus last.fm | RYM
Also, placing the entry here for the time being.
- The entirety of "Miracles" by Insane Clown Posse. It offers up such gems as this:
Fucking rainbows after it rains
There's enough miracles here to blow your brains
I fed a fish to a pelican at Frisco Bay
It tried to eat my cell phone, he ran away- The video
is ten times Narmier.
- The video
Bumping this discussion, because this really needs to be settled. This has become an edit war, no question about it, and I feel incredibly unclean taking part in it ("so don't take part, Lord!").
So, we've established that Narm doesn't have to be unaware of itself (unless I'm jumping to a conclusion); any other arguments regarding how the song and video do not belong to this trope?
last.fm | RYM
The song's placement here is in regards to listeners completely missing the point of the song and not understanding that ICP use satire, sarcasm and humor to make their points. It doesn't belong on this page. It's not narm.
This snippit from one of the members of ICP, where he says the point of the song is that scientists "away the Earth’s cool mysteries", and they apparently are upset by that. So yeah, trying to say the song is "satire" doesn't seem quite correct - they were serious. Admittedly, not about not knowing how magnets worked etc etc, but the song was meant to be "deep" and taken seriously.
Cut the larger Waking The Cadaver entry because the band is currently listed on the So Bad It's Horrible Music page. If they did a lot of stuff that was truly amusing, then they don't belong on that page. If it all was merely pathetic, then it probably isn't Narm.
There is a fine line between recklessness and courage — Paul McCartney
Re "Hey There Delilah":
Does anyone think that this song is truly amusing? Since there is no Wallbanger/Music page, we have to keep our eyes peeled for things that would've gone on that page if it existed.
There is a fine line between recklessness and courage — Paul McCartney Hide / Show Replies
Cut this block and put it here for now, until someone can confirm that this is Narm.
- No
lovehate for "Hey There, Delilah"? According to The Other Wiki, the song is about the songwriter's stalkerish obsession for someone who was already in a relationship. Makes you look at the song differently now, doesn't it?
- Someone else had the same idea.
- The opening vocals sound a little like the beginning of "Birdhouse in Your Soul."
- There's also the forced syntax of the line "Even more in love with me you'd fall".
- Stalkerish obsession, indeed...
- Could be worse.
- Someone else
Re "The Christmas Shoes" — we need to link to Patton Oswalt's analysis, spell out why it's Narm for some of us, or both. I suspect that, with this song, there is more than just a country accent making it hilarious. (It must be funny to some of us, or it shouldn't be here.)
There is a fine line between recklessness and courage — Paul McCartney
At some point I need to go through this page and delete all of the "To be fair..." natter edits.