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Jan 13th 2015 at 5:17:32 AM •••

The following are two examples that I deleted because I don't think they fit the trope, then the original poster re-added them.

  • In general, the difference in what a player actually experiences and what a character goes through is always large. You're not actually having to experience the bad/unfun parts of someone's adventure, or a game may give you infinity just to solve one puzzle. While in reality the characters need to solve it within 5 minutes to not die. Also the general fact that obviously, playing a game where you can fire a bow isn't in any way like firing a bow in real life, which requires LARGE amounts of skill just to be able to fire an arrow at all, let alone in a Robin Hood style. Let alone the fact they're trying to shoot a moving target, while on moving horse-back, in the dark, while it's raining, and in reality they have to take a while tor reload. And that while you're sitting back on a sofa trying to solve a puzzle, in reality the characters are in a timed, life or death situation where any normal person's mind would become completely shoot. But most people seem to forget this and end up bashing a character for not being as smart or strong as they are.

  • Ace Attorney series: The player has the luxury of being able to make multiple mistakes, spend as long as they need to on anything, go back and forward through a testimony during cross-examination, interrupt gameplay and dialogue to look at the current evidence, in the latest game look at a backlog, have all the evidence and profiles auto updated for you, and having the characters solve the details of a mystery for them. And yet people still tend to complain about how the protagonist is an idiot because they didn't realize when you did about a certain plot twist. Let alone the fact that you have the luxury of sitting at home and not actually having someone's life in your hands, if you wanted to actually experience the game like the protagonists experience the events, then you'd have to: Not be able to look at the court record at all unless given specific time to do, answer every single question within a couple of seconds, have a limited time during cross-examination, spot what to do with a statement the first time you see it during a cross-examination without being able to go back to it, have the text be on auto-scroll so you can't take your time to study a line, have all mistakes result in a 100% penalty, have no luxury of being able to magically transport time back to a certain point in the trial where you messed up, solve absolutely everything about every single case yourself, not be able to somehow repeat the same lines of dialogue just so you can see if the other option was the right one or not. Obviously this wouldn't make a good game though, but this is exactly how Phoenix, Apollo, Athena and Mia most likely have to go about things in the story. Players are too stupid to seem to realize this though.

For the first one How to Write an Example clearly states to Keep It An Example (General is not a medium), both read as incredibly insulting, and if anything they fall into Acceptable Breaks from Reality more than Gameplay And Story Segregation. But I don't want to get into an edit war, so if anyone else could please settle this that would be great.

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Jan 13th 2015 at 6:25:59 AM •••

The first entry needs to stay gone. The second entry is written in such an insulting way that it can stay gone as well.

Feb 6th 2014 at 2:11:14 PM •••

What's the trope called for when characters aren't actually shown wearing what you specified for them in your equipment menu?

For example, in Earthbound, you find a Hard Hat in Peaceful Rest Valley, and can have Ness equip it, but Ness isn't actually shown wearing it instead of his baseball cap.

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Jun 1st 2013 at 7:04:20 PM •••

HEY. Guys. We got a bad redirect here.

Gameplay and Story Integration leads to Gameplay and Story Segregation. These two are inversions of each other (Integration means the two are joined, segregation means separate). It doesn't adequately explain this either.

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Jun 1st 2013 at 7:18:22 PM •••

There's no such trope as GASI. All there is are Aversions of GASS... which are listed on this page. Until someone makes a GASI page (I think there's one in YKTTW) this is the best solution.

Jul 10th 2011 at 3:34:56 PM •••

Whoops. Nevermind.

Edited by Nathaniel
Aug 23rd 2010 at 2:10:18 PM •••

Someone can explain why Schr÷dinger's Player Character was included here? The explanation given"The game offers multiple characters to choose from with various backstories, but only the character you choose as your PC ever appears in the game." not explains at all why this is a case of Gameplay and Story Segregation.

Edited by MagBas Hide/Show Replies
Aug 26th 2010 at 4:02:40 PM •••

I assume it applies to cases where all the character stories give good reasons for their showing up to fight evil, but only one of them actually does because that's the one the player selected. Like, say, in Golden Axe all three characters have strong reasons to fight Death Adder, but only the ones the player actually selects will bother to get off their asses and actually do it. Or that the agency in Contra only sends out two out of four soldiers.

Aug 26th 2010 at 7:59:15 PM •••

In either case, the present description really not says why this is the case. It only mentions the trope description, not as this relates to Gameplay and Story Segregation-exist many examples where is possible believe that one of the characters either not exists story-wise(actually, the trope description mentions this possibility)or that you simply not found them(Many dungeon-crawling games). (By the way, in their Golden Axe example, they are fighting together or separated? )

Edited by MagBas
Aug 26th 2010 at 11:17:55 PM •••

Usually in the associated story they're a three man band (barbarian, amazon fire-mage, dwarf who kicks seventeen kinds of ass) and IIRC in the series storyline all of them fought Death Adder, but it's at most a two player game, so in practice at least one always sits out. Would apply to anything where that was the case or where there's clearly a lot of characters who ought to be doing something but are sitting out because the player didn't choose them; the storyline is taking a back seat in favour of the needs of the game.

Aug 28th 2010 at 6:29:41 PM •••

I am not more complaining to the inclusion of the trope but i guess that the description needs a improvement; as is, is possible believe that they are totally non-related and logically possible of non be found(many adventurers, by example, can easily die offscreen) persons, not members of the same group or other person that by pure logic must had to be possible of be found in the history.

Oct 3rd 2010 at 7:05:12 AM •••

Sorry, posted here by mistake, please ignore the post.

Edited by anonymous738
May 28th 2010 at 3:42:40 PM •••

I was adding a trope but figured it could well fit under Acceptable Breaks from Reality as every trope it is related to is also on that list. Now of them are also on here so I presumed that you basically stuck to one list and being on acceptable breaks implied gameplay and story segregation naturally.

For others in the future, I thought explicitly giving the instruction on the page would be helpful.

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Jun 20th 2010 at 11:21:30 AM •••

Only because something is unrealistic, not means this contradicts the the plot. Look in Aliens Speaking English, Authority Equals Asskicking, Olympus Mons, Soft Water, Surprisingly Functional Toys, Justified Extra Lives, etc.

Edited by MagBas
May 7th 2010 at 2:21:54 PM •••

I'd say that Irrelevant Sidequest doesn't belong on here. There's nothing particularly suspension-of-disbelief breaking about heroes who are capable of multitasking with regards to the quests that they're pursuing.

Any second opinions?

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May 7th 2010 at 9:19:35 PM •••

I think that trope's opening paragraph describes why it belongs here:

RP Gs allow you to roleplay many different types of character. You can be a fierce warrior, a powerful mage, a noble Knight... okay, let's face it, you're probably some kind of fighter. So why do you seem to spend half your time delivering packages or gathering mushrooms for the local apothecary? Especially when you're supposed to be dealing with that invading demon horde?

May 28th 2010 at 3:40:59 PM •••

Well it's actually a different trope that deals with the sidequests going on when you are meant to be rushing to save the world, right? So actually the only conflict is that you are meant to be a great hero but you're doing a minor task. Well everybody has to do minor tasks at some point, great heroes did actually occasionally have to do stuff to get paid. It doesn't actually conflict with the narrative explanation of who you are and what your motivations are.

May 29th 2010 at 1:02:24 AM •••

Yeah, but you're a great hero who already has an important mission and is taking time out to do something unimportant instead. It's rather like taking time to set the table when your house is on fire.

Jun 17th 2010 at 8:57:02 PM •••

Actually, many characters in non-games have Chronic Hero Syndrome and many non-game stories have fillers or important episodes where the characters execute things totally non-related with his main mission. In other words, i agree with muninn and Some Sort Of Troper-the character do sidequests not contradicts the plot and Irrelevant Sidequest not belongs here.

Jun 17th 2010 at 11:18:52 PM •••

Again, though, the trope itself describes why it belongs here:

This trope is useful in that it allows for more varied gameplay, but when taken to extremes you can end up feeling more like a glorified errand boy (or girl) than a hero. It can also lead to some pretty major Gameplay and Story Segregation, especially when your main quest would appear to be considerably more urgent.

Edited by Evilest_Tim
Jun 18th 2010 at 12:41:03 AM •••

As noted,already exists a specific trope to cases where the main quest is more urgent: Take Your Time. Said trope already is listed in the list, in a position totally separated of Irrelevant Sidequest.

Edited by MagBas
Jun 18th 2010 at 3:54:52 AM •••

Yes, but this doesn't mean that Irrelevant Sidequests don't fall under Gameplay and Story Segregation, just that they don't always fall under it. Same as some of the listings under Unfortunate Implications are ones that frequently have implications but don't always.

Edited by Evilest_Tim
Jun 19th 2010 at 1:36:18 PM •••

But by this paragraph, more cases where this is Gameplay and Story Segregation are cases of Take Your Time. Also, nothing impedes in more cases someone argue the character have Chronic Hero Syndrome(read all the examples in anime and manga, comic books, film, literature, live action tv...) in other words, characters stopping to do random good acts, with or without more pressing matters, is extremely commom in fiction. And the explanation in Take Your Time is "You can take as long as you want to finish your sidequests, and that world-destroying meteor will just hang in the sky till you're done." impliyng the motive this is here is because you have time to finish said sidequests not because you is sufficiently heroic/greedy to try finish them.

Edited by MagBas
Jun 22nd 2010 at 9:59:12 AM •••

Well, if nobody more reply in three days, i will remove Irrelevant Sidequest and put examples more worthy as 1-Up. Irrelevant Sidequest is only the game counterpart to Filler and hardly contradicts the plot more than Filler, except by cases of Take Your Time.

Edited by MagBas
Jun 23rd 2010 at 4:18:42 AM •••

Yes, you can think of excuses for the character to do these things, but the real reason is to provide more gameplay, and it can be jarring for someone who isn't prepared to come up with excuses. For example, regardless of the time element, it doesn't make a lot of sense in Final Fantasy X that two of the bodyguards to the World's Most Important Doormat are allowed to sod off and play extreme water polo whenever they feel like it. An extreme case would be Overlord, where the entire game consists of doing things you wouldn't think an Evil Overlord would bother with. But basically, there's three points to an Irrelevant Sidequest that make it a matter of gameplay seperate from story:

  1. Why does the mailman have items which would be useful to a warrior?
  2. Why is he prepared to exchange these for someone simply doing his job?
  3. Why is there nobody but the Hero Champion of Glory and Justice he can get to do this, and why does he trust this job to the first weirdo with a sword to walk by?

It's ok when it's, say, some old friend giving you food for chopping wood with your Mighty Axe. It gets to Gameplay and Story Segregation when, say, you're getting a Bottle in Zelda, an item which potentially allows the owner to come back from the dead an unlimited number of times, for doing a mundane task for a total stranger. Similar case if the job requires technical skills you don't actually have (fixing machinery is a popular one); it's giving you something to do first, with the reason you're able to do it a very distant second.

Edited by Evilest_Tim
Jun 23rd 2010 at 6:18:36 PM •••

Hmm.. I guess you is right. But in either case Irrelevant Sidequest needs a new explanation. The present explanation("In RP Gs, everyone seems to constantly ask you to do sidequests that have absolutely nothing to do with your main objective.") do not make clear why Irrelevant Sidequest belongs here. In either case, I am putting some other examples, such as Video-Game Lives, ok?

Edited by MagBas
Apr 5th 2010 at 1:53:48 PM •••

Mag Bas

  • God of War 2 has an example at the ending: Athena gets impaled in the ending by Kratos with the god-killing BFS and dies, this would be fine in itself... Except you just spent the last twenty minutes or so stabbing and impaling Zeus with it, INCLUDING in cutscenes, yet he seems to shrug it off within a few seconds , even your final cutscene impalement just before Athena interrupts (and is subsequently killed). Not even some sort of godly Charles Atlas Superpower can explain why Zeus can do this, as the manual states that Athena herself is a highly skilled warrior, so, apparently, the only real explanation is that Zeus is a rare case of a villain being strong as he needs to be to survive for an epic final showdown in the next game.
Mag Bas:Cutscenes count as "story".
  • Voltorb and Electrode are both said to be (and actually are in-game) often mistaken for PokÚ Balls. Voltorb is 1′08″ and Electrode is 3′11″. Much larger than the baseball sized PokÚ Balls.
    • Some have come up with explanations based on the animations used in the 3D console games - Voltorb and Electrode can compress themselves (usually to use something like Explosion), which might allow them to compress that much.
    • Actually even simpler in Pokemon Colosseum where it shows that items are really kept in pokeball shaped containers rather than actual pokeballs. It's more reasonable to think that they just look like these larger containers rather than the size of a baseball.
Mag Bas: Yes, this is ridiculous, but both the pokedex entry telling this and the height of Voltorb/Electrode count as "story".

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