MagBas
- You all know Johan Liebert, right? Classy, attractive, and utterly inhuman psychopath willing to devote an exorbitant amount of time Mind Raping and driving Innocent Bystanders to kill themselves just for the sheer hell of it? Turns out that a small but vocal fraction of the fandom has decided to glaze over every bit of that description that came after "attractive" and fangirl him with no irony whatsoever. Yay for Completely Missing The Point! Most of the fandom is thankfully more sane than that, but there is still a surprisingly large percentage of, "Yes, he's a total sociopath, but he's a sexy total sociopath."
"Remember, simply liking a villain or even fetishing over them is not this trope!" See Love to Hate. Is the that the last phrase hints that is the case.
Edited by MagBas Hide / Show Replies
It's also good to keep in mind that no real person ever suffered because of an anime character. It's possible to become fond of a villain just because he entertains you so much.
The Twilight Realms
This page is pretty badly written, to be honest. It's full of grammar and spelling errors. I'd fix it myself, but the edit box makes spoilers visible and I don't want to accidentally read something I'm not supposed to know yet.
Living the gamer's life until I die. Take a controller and join the ride. Not affiliated with the Twilight saga.
Cut this because it's an aversion. Put it here in case there are enough non-diehard fans of the show to merit replacement.
- Notably averted with Cowboy Bebop's Big Bad of sorts (or at least the biggest bad in the series itself), Vicious. He seems like the kind of character that would prompt a Draco in Leather Pants reaction due to his Bishonen-esque looks and the fact that he's a pretty big Badass along with being a Complete Monster. He even sounds like and bears a bit of resemblence to notorious DIP Sephiroth. However, he's generally hated by die hard fans of the series, most likely due to his... er, actions in the final two episodes of the series.
User Babylon Whore keeps stubbornly deleting this part of Ulquiorra's entry under Bleach. She has been involved in edit wars before (Die for Our Ship and Ship-to-Ship Combat) — and it seems that she has not learned from them, since she keeps "sanitizing" the Ulquiorra parts to "hide" the behavior of the Vocal Minority among Ulquiorra fangirls and Ulquiorra/Orihime shippers. Such a behavior, well, can be easily seen as the trope being confirmed and/or reinforced: the fandom glosses over the shit the guy pulls, and once someone brings it up, they react via sweeping it under the rug.
- Even more: some Ulquiorra/Orihime fans not only ignore how screwed up the pairing would be (which is its major appeal) and claim that it's Orihime's duty and obligation to fall for him, since "he makes her stronger, more feminist and more interesting"
Ladd Russo of Baccano! is a psychopathic, sadistic madman with only two redeeming qualities I can think of (His love for Lua and camaraderie and friendship with... well the other madmen). However, no-one, myself included, dislikes him in any way. Whether this is despite or because of his tendencies, that's a little hazy. But whatever way you look at it, Ladd just gets WAY too much fandom for how fucked up he is
Edited by SebFallon Hide / Show Replies
The aliens (especially Quiche) should be added to this list because of how far their fans are willing to distort canon for them.
Edited by 71.168.4.93
Shotamouse reporting.
Heinel wasn't the first, just the most well-known outside of Japan. And he's one instance when the creators invoked this trope deliberately. Note the emphasis on "deliberately".
Not to be petulant, but do you have supporting evidence/proof that it is deliberate? I mean, any scan from an official guide book, interview, etc.? Just give me the specifics, like the name of the magazine/official publication and what date and page; or if it's a CD interview, the exact name and release number of the disc. Because for one thing, you can't just go around saying that this is deliberate unless you knew enough Japanese to actually understand the source material for you to say that it does support your claim.
And I won't take direct translations; only raw Japanese scans/scripts/audio clips, since the Japanese language is known to be VERY tricky even for experienced translators.
Edited by ladycoffee WARNING: This troper is a severe monomaniac. Caution is advised. Hide / Show Replies
You have seen the last episode, haven't you? The one in which Heinel finds out he's one of the Go brothers, kills Zanbajil, and shields Kenichi with an explosion with his own body? The one in which Our Heroes beg him not to kill himself? The very fact that the hero's worst enemy is literally his brother is itself a powerful metaphor. One of the aesops of Voltes V is that your enemy is never a villain in his own eyes, and it just might be possible to make him your friend. Also, I obtained a translation, from a native Japanese speaker, of the character notes on Heinel in the Roman album. They describe him sympathetically. Say, were you the one who deleted the line I added after your entry on Heinel on the Ron the Death Eater page?
I haven't seen this, but from your description, that doesn't sound like this trope. The point of a DILP is that it's the fanbase who misinterpret the character, not the creators developing them that way.
Yes, I have seen the last episode, and no, I haven't deleted the last line in the Ron the Death Eater entry (though I wonder who that is). I do agree that the authors may have kept the audience/fans in mind for the last episode, lest they throw a fit if they give him with a less sympathetic ending. But it is ONLY as a consequence of his popularity, not because they have it in mind in the first place. Kinda like a Fanservice of sort to his fans. If he was indeed designed to be completely sympathetic, then the writers might as well not make him cross the Moral Event Horizon that I described in the main entry...and yet he got those Japanese fans going after him knowing well (or ignoring) how he crossed it. And to be honest, I can't think of any human/redeeming traits he has apart from the Noble Demon manifestations that makes him qualified enough to be taken off the Draco in Leather Pants list. Not unless you count the last five episodes that deliberately were made for his fans, like the last minute Pet the Dog moment he has with Kenichi (though it's apparent that Ken won't die from that blast and Heinel didn't get injured that makes me wonder if making him do that deed is worth it). But then again, this alternate scenario
that the authors/scriptwriters have in mind still portrayed him as torn between accepting and unreceptive of the fact that these people he so hates are his own family, with all his racist tendencies and all.
And for the last time, give me the source, as in the raw, untranslated source. The scan of your claimed source. Don't just pull it off from personal interpretation. It's not too much to ask, is it? And like I said, even professional translators and native speakers do get lost in some aspects, resulting in ambiguity.
Edited by ladycoffee WARNING: This troper is a severe monomaniac. Caution is advised.
The hell I "can't just go around saying" my interpretion of the character on tvtropes! There's no such thing as notability, remember? The difinitive raw Japanese source for all Voltes V info is the Voltes V Roman Album, and I don't have it anymore. There's a copy available on Ebay, if you want to buy it yourself. But if you don't believe the episodes themselves, I doubt that anything you find there will convince you. Even if the authors did change the character in response to his popularity—and, given the amount of advance planning involved in producing an animated TV show, I doubt it—so what? Canon is still canon, regardless of the motives behind it. And he's not supposed to be COMPLETELY sympathetic—he's one of the bad guys. But La Gaul and his sons think Heinel is redeemable, and I for one am not inclined to argue with them. Vash Ti- The last episode can be seen, with subtitles, on You Tube. Go thou and watch!
Please stop fighting. This is one entry on an extremely subjective trope page. I'm no expert on Prince Heinel but as long as his fanbase glosses over the evil things he did to make him into an object of unabashed affection, he counts. Give Gante the assumption of good faith here. I know TV Tropes is Serious Business and all but this would be a really ridiculous thing to make up.
See you in the discussion pages.
Some Guy: Well okay, but I for one know of how Fan Dumb could go to ridiculous extremes to support their equally ridiculous claims, so you can't blame me for being cynical/having a hard time giving holders of such claims good faith.
Wait, whoa, Serious Business? I only put the stuff that I said in bold and italics to stress my point, lest it would be missed again. I'd say it's Gante who's going into all Serious Business mode, what with her determination to prove that her object of affection is a Draco in Leather Pants justified by the author/s, and tries to justify all villain wrongdoing with her oft repeated mantra "no real person is hurt by their actions". But since she did as much as tell me to "pick up the book" (which I have no way of gaining access to, since I'm not rich), I might as well see for myself.
Gante: There's no way I would think that he was irredeemable, my dear. It's just that he did more than enough damage that he can't possibly be glossed over without being a DILP. You know what? The "there's no such thing as notability" is not an excuse to post stuff of dubious authenticity. TV Tropes has been bashed time and again for articles that are based on personal speculation and emotions. You can claim something is canon for all you like; you can be all sure about your convictions, but there are some people who won't be convinced by that alone unless you can give physical, quantifiable evidence.
But if nothing that I ever said helps; since we can't agree on one thing, and it's just the two of us arguing, it won't really matter if we simply wipe Heinel's case off both the DILP and the RTDE pages to save the other tropers a lot of unnecessary drama, would it?
Edited by ladycoffee WARNING: This troper is a severe monomaniac. Caution is advised.
You brought it upon yourself. Stop being such a drama queen.
Is nuking said entries as of writing.
Edited by ladycoffee WARNING: This troper is a severe monomaniac. Caution is advised.
I have a problem with this entry. DILP is when the fans downplay or ignore a character's villainy, but 17 and 18 never really do anything villainous in the first place. They killed Gero, but, let's face it, nobody's gonna cry after him. They beat up the Z-team, but the Z-team attacked first plus they didn't kill anyone, they didn't hurt krillin(who stayed out of fight) and even made sure he gives them senzu. The most asshole thing they did was blowing up a cop car (but they didn't hurt the cops themselves) which is hardly something MEH-worthy. Yes, they were on a hunt for Goku but it's not a given that they would've killed him. In fact i remember one game when they hunt him down but don't kill him. (I know that the game is not the manga's canon, but nothing in the manga suggests otherwise). They A Re villains in Trunks's futer but in the main timeline the're NOT. Simple as that.