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for ongoing cleanup projects.
We can try summoning the troper here...?
He/His/Him. No matter who you are, always Be Yourself.
I have sent a PM to flag the thread to them.
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
How many times has RWBY caused us problems.
Can we just lock all the pages already? It's clearly a problem child.
Edited by Karxrida If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?
Beats me. I proposed a potential cleanup thread here not too long ago.
He/His/Him. No matter who you are, always Be Yourself.
If a troper is prone to edit warring, locking the pages of a single work won't solve the issue in the long run.
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
We could always use the forums or the discussion pages where necessary.
He/His/Him. No matter who you are, always Be Yourself.
^^ RWBY gets brought up here frequently — there are nine pages worth of ATT reports related to it. We already have a character page locked for shipping wars so it's not like there isn't precedent for RWBY having issues.
If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?
I'm well aware. What crossed my mind is that there is the danger of tropers just moving the problem to the trope pages instead of the work pages.
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Not again.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
↑ Got anything meaningful to add or just popcorning?
In all honesty, a cleanup thread probably isn't necessary just because the Forum thread already does a decent amount of cleanup, and when combined with Wyld checking the pages pretty often, it's probably not needed quite yet.
I would personally advocate for locking every RWBY, yes it won't stop edit warring but it has been proven multiple times that the franchise is one of the biggest causes.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
I vaguely recall that we locked RWBY last big finale, too. Best we do it, especially given how this ending is.
As far as this ending is concerned, it's only one troper who seems to determined to trope it as Downer Ending. And I don't recall the name causing any other problems for RWBY, so it might just be a Single-Issue Wonk.
I appreciate that seeing RWBY attached to Edit War problems so frequently is annoying, but I do think locking all RWBY pages is a bit of an overreaction. I also don't think it addresses the problem, which is troper behaviour.
Edited by Wyldchyld If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
This may be a troper behavior problem, but it seems to a be that a lot of different tropers tend to have problems in relation to RWBY pages. Again, we have a page locked for shipping wars and one of the worst Nightmare Fuel pages on the site is RWBY's. Constantly having to clean up after them suggests there's something about the work attracting this.
Edited by Karxrida If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?
^ Someone wanted to create a RWBY cleanup thread a while back, but it was determined that the work didn’t need one. I wonder if that’s still the case.
TRS Queue | Works That Require Cleanup Of Complaining | Troper Wall
^^ The Nightmare Fuel page is also locked because of this reason, which is the only reason it hasn't gotten worse.
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^^ I think we can get a new consensus on this if it's necessary.
He/His/Him. No matter who you are, always Be Yourself.
In terms of the original topic, have we heard anything from the troper mentioned in the OP yet?
No, they haven't; I did PM them a link to this discussion, but I haven't had a response.
However, looking at their edit history, they haven't made any edits since the 4th. Since I flagged this on the 5th (and sent the PM on the 5th), they may not have picked it up yet. Their most recent edit dates are groups of edits on the 4th August. They don't seem to post every day, they seem to do a large amount of edits on a single day every week or couple of weeks (there are exceptions).
So, it doesn't look like they visit here every single day. I mean, the Downer Ending issue was resolved back in April, but they didn't seem to notice until the 15th June, which was the first time they'd edited since April (which would explain the large gap between the resolution and the decision to ignore the resolution).
On the subject of a RWBY-specific project, the pages that need a clean-up are the Moments pages (which are being used like recap pages), Ho Yay pages, Memes pages (there are multiple memes pages, which has flagged by someone else in the past on ATT). All the other RWBY pages are clean and up-to-date (they may have wall of text issues, but that's all).
Regarding the Nightmare Fuel page lock:
Although the original reason for locking the Nightmare Fuel page was because a couple of tropers kept edit warring the clean-up thread's attempt to clean the page, the only reason it has stayed locked is because RWBY tropers keep trying to use NF like a recap page, and just complain about the lock instead of engaging with the NF thread. All the Moments pages are treated like recap pages; it's just NF is the only one that has been properly cleaned up. I have done some cleaning of the Tear Jerker page, but none of the rest. The reason I say they're treated like recap pages is because tropers are basically troping every X event in every episode that can vague classify as X Moment (did something sad happen in the episode? List it on Tear Jerker. Did something funny happen? List it on Funny). That's not a Moment. It's not even an audience reaction. It's just a scene summary (a recap) of sad, funny, heartwarming, etc, events in every episode. So, since tropers are still doing that to the other Moments pages, and don't seem to like engaging with the NF clean-up thread, the general feeling is that if the NF page is unlocked, we'll just end up having to clean it up all over again.
Regarding a RWBY-specific clean-up project:
I had been resistant to a RWBY clean-up project in the past because we've got clean-up threads that have done the job for most RWBY pages, and three active cleaners (me, gjjones and Zaptech), and then some other tropers who clean issues as they come across them (which may be one reason why RWBY Edit Wars get flagged so frequently). However, there are several remaining pages that have struggled with the clean-up threads that exist for them (Ho Yay, Moments, and someone recently flagged RWBY Memes as having an insane number of sub-pages); it's been hard to get feedback or help on those threads, and constantly pushing makes me feel like I'm taking over the thread. So, I've backed off from those pages (in fairness, nobody has made me feel that way — I've just been feeling that way for quite a while), and have come round to the idea that a RWBY specific clean-up thread might be the way to go to get these remaining pages sorted.
It might also help resolve the problem with the Recap pages having their images changed without permission (I've listed which ones were, and it's too much for a single image thread unless it's a RWBY-specific image pickin' thread), and the sandbox that exists for the Characters.RWBY Team RWBY page (which I am becoming increasingly concerned about).
Edited by Wyldchyld If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
^ Unfortunately I couldn't help much with a RWBY cleanup thread as I have never seen the show, but I brought up the prospect because the series keeps clogging up ATT and Project threads due to never-ending misuse, so I figured a thread may be the way to go. I think it should go in Short-Term.
TRS Queue | Works That Require Cleanup Of Complaining | Troper Wall
Yes, just to clarify: I'm not criticising people for the lack of feedback; it's a niche show, and I don't expect most tropers to be that familiar with it. That's just how it goes for a lot of these works. It's one of the reasons why I've changed my mind about a project thread.
Is that something we can just start? I haven't been involved in a work project thread before, just trope project threads.
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
^ Short-Term is where work cleanup threads go. Knock yourself out with the RWBY thread if you feel it needs one. I've started a few work cleanups there myself—The Simpsons, Super Smash Bros., etc.
TRS Queue | Works That Require Cleanup Of Complaining | Troper Wall
Cool, thanks. I'll bounce the idea off gjjones, as I know they've wanted to start one for a while. We may as well pool the effort among as many RWBY tropers as we can.
Edited to add: Just to check, I haven't touched the entries on the Downer Ending page yet. Is it okay if I go ahead and remove them?
Edited by Wyldchyld If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Goofed post. Sorry about that.
Edited by Wyldchyld If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Apologies for the goofed posting: I've started a short-term project thread here
.
Just an update here, rather than starting a new thread.
It looks like this troper has edit warred elsewhere, too. I've just encountered another instance of them edit warring a RWBY change they disagree with: an instance of Killed Off for Real was removed for being misuse, but they added it back on the 29th June, disagreeing with the removal in their edit reason.
I haven't gone through their edit history, so I don't know how common it is for them to edit war, but it now looks like the Downer Ending incident was not a one-off.
Edited by Wyldchyld If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Well, I removed it.
For what it's worth, the video was uploaded by Ninten Fire Swag 20.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Thanks for checking. It did seem likely because they're the only troper who's ever pushed that trope for that ending.
Do you mind if I go ahead and remove the Downer Ending entry that they put on the trope page?
Edited by Wyldchyld If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Again: I removed it.
Thanks for both of those.
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
It was a pretty bleak ending, considering Salem and Cinder pretty much have the situation in the bag, since they got 2 Relics, Penny is dead, and they wrecked Atlas, and Team RWBY was presumed dead when they fell into the void. Sometimes, Ray of Hope and Downer Endings go hand in hand. Look at Infinity War, for example.
Edited by NintenFireSwag20
Well 1) this wiki goes by consensus not what you personally feel. 2) it wasn't removed from Downer Ending. I have just done so, sighting this query.
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
Spoiler mark that, please.
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I'm not sure what to do about the video that was also uploaded to the Downer Ending trope ("And That's Checkmate"). I posted it to the video moderation thread, but Septimus Heap referred it back to this thread because it was NintenFireSwag20 who uploaded it. I'm therefore not sure what the next step is regarding the handling of the video.
^^^ The problem is that a consensus disagreed with you and regarded it as a "Ray of Hope" Ending instead — which is a bleak ending that manages to include a ray of hope for the future. Your focus on the "bleak" part of the ending keeps excluding the "ray of hope" part.
Edited by Wyldchyld If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Why would they think it's a ray of hope ending? Salem and Cinder basically pulled off a checkmate, and there's no hope of stopping them at this point. Plus, Salem is still immortal and any hope of making her mortal is now gone. I really feel the consensus was wrong on calling it a "Ray of Hope" Ending. There is hardly any hope in Volume 8's ending. It's 100% bleak with no hope whatsoever. Everything about the ending was just tragic and sad.
Edited by NintenFireSwag20
That's your opinion. It doesn't mean you're right.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
^I agree. They can't force people to have a same opinion as their. Besides for me the ending counts as "Ray of Hope" Ending and that's my opinion. Note: Sorry if I going off-topic here.
Edited by Bubblepig “Boom! Boomboom! Boomboomboom! Bakuage Tire! Gogogo!"
^Well, I disagree. I don't think it is a "Ray of Hope" Ending. It's more of a Downer Ending, since there really isn't any hope in Volume 8's ending (even with the Weapon Tombstone shot of Ruby's scythe, Crescent Rose). Even so, can't it be counted as both, since Infinity War also had both Downer and Ray of Hope counted?
Edited by NintenFireSwag20
We know you don't agree, Ninten, but you're out-voted here. You can't just keep forcing your way if everyone else thinks you're wrong.
As for listing both, that's only possible if they're not mutually exclusive tropes. I don't know if they are or not.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
^^ You need to understand where you stand in this thread. You've been reported for edit warring on the issue of Downer Ending / "Ray of Hope" Ending, got outvoted in favour of "Ray of Hope" Ending, and now you're contesting the consensus? That's a bad look for you, considering not a lot of tropers who get reported for edit warring even get the leniency of being summoned to a discussion. The worst thing you can do next is defy said consensus and re-add Downer Ending one more time, which is a free ticket to the Edit/Banned thread.
"They played us like a DAMN FIDDLE!" — Kazuhira Miller, Metal Gear Solid V The Phantom Pain
^I don't want to get edit banned, and edit warring was not my intention, but nothing about Volume 8's ending is hopeful, considering Mantle got destroyed, Atlas got flooded, Penny is dead, Team RWBY (and Jaune) fell to their deaths into the void, and Salem and Cinder got away with their objectives and stole 2 Relics with no one else to stop them. Why does everybody keep thinking it's a Ray of Hope Ending?
Not familiar with RWBY at all, but according to a reply on the ATT linked:
The heroes are apparently implied to have survived, meaning that it’s not entirely hopeless. If there’s at least some hope for the heroes, then it’s a "Ray of Hope" Ending, no matter how many bad things otherwise happened.
Edited by jandn2014 back lol
Downer Ending would only apply if the series stopped at Volume 8, with no RTX preview clearly showing that RWBY is about to come back in Volume 9 come this Fall.
I think we're starting to run in circles with this discussion. Ninten just can't understand that the story is ongoing, and that The Stinger for Volume 8 clearly implies that RWBY didn't die in the void, just transported to a wholly different location.
"They played us like a DAMN FIDDLE!" — Kazuhira Miller, Metal Gear Solid V The Phantom Pain
But can't season finales count as Downer Endings, too? The second season of Avatar is considered a Downer Ending, even though one more season was made after it.
Plus, the scythe shot is only in the stinger.
Edited by NintenFireSwag20
Well most people are going to watch till. The end, no? Just because it's in the stinger doesn't make it any less valid.
Jawbreakers on sale for 99¢
I really feel that this is going in circles. Requesting a lock.
Ninten is also contesting his Killed Off for Real Edit War in PMs with me rather than in this thread (where it was first raised). That's also going in circles.
At this point, I'd really like a mod's feedback on this situation. He's not listening to any of us. Perhaps he'll listen to a mod?
Edited by Wyldchyld If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
He P Med me too about that particular entry. I refrained from entering that debate, partly because he didn't seem like he'd listen and partly because it's best handled where others can listen.
I think you're right. I'm happy for a mod to check the PMs.
Edited by Wyldchyld If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Yeah, I think the mod will take care of that. And I think it's time to lock this query.
“Boom! Boomboom! Boomboomboom! Bakuage Tire! Gogogo!"
I was away for a couple weeks.
BTW, how about creating a trope called "Ray of Hope Stinger" for works that have mainly Downer Endings?
Edited by NintenFireSwag20
I still think the ending of Volume 8 is bleak enough to count as a Downer Ending instead of a "Ray of Hope" Ending, even with the shot of Ruby's scythe.
Ninten, you really need to let this go.
You were outvoted on this issue. You were the only person that thinks it's a Downer Ending. You still disagree even now, but you have to accept that you're not going to get what you want.
Move on.
Echoing Michael and Bubble's request for locking this query.
Well, the video example has a score of 4.62 (8 votes), so I'm not the only person who thinks it's a downer ending.
Can't it be counted as both RoH AND Downer Ending like Infinity War does?
Edited by NintenFireSwag20
Ninten, please, let it be. This is straying into wonk territory.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Another WebAnimation.RWBY Edit War, I'm afraid.
Back in April, NintenFireSwag20 decided to Edit War on the Recap.RWBYV 8 E 14 The Final Word page. The ending had been originally troped as "Ray of Hope" Ending, but they wanted it to be Downer Ending. I tried to get it sorted out on the Recap's discussion page
. To try and collect as much of a consensus as I could, I also posted to the ATT
and Is This An Example?
.
I collated the results here
, along with advice I was originally given to go ahead and call it. So, "Ray of Hope" Ending got the call (5 votes to 1), and that seemed to be the end of it.
I have just spotted that a video has been uploaded to the Downer Ending trope, depicting it as a Downer Ending. The video's got spoiler issues anyway, but it seems to have been uploaded to both Downer Ending and The Bad Guy Wins around a month ago. This led to me discovering that NintenFireSwag20 has edit warred the Downer Ending entry again, this time in June.
They have not changed the entries on the Recap page the original edit war occurred on. Instead, they've added it to the DownerEnding.Web Original page and posted a comment
on the Recap's discussion page reiterating their belief that it's Downer Ending.
I've raised the video issue on the
, but I've also come here to flag the Edit War.
video quality control thread
video moderation threadNote: I do not know if there is a way to check who uploaded a video, so I have no idea if it was the same troper or someone else who had no idea about any of this history.
Edited by Wyldchyld