"Space Jews" to "Funny She Doesn't Look Druish"?: Space Jews

Actually a past discussion was to rename it Suspiciously Ethic Alien, although some were against renaming it, even though limiting misuse was still proven.

I remember the proof was...not.

We looked at the wicks, and most of them were Jews In Space. Don't tell me that wasn't proving the trope was misused in the form of limitation.

Yes, that's how proof works. Ask Raw Power, I'm sure he can link you to about half a gazillion Less Wrong links.

Well should we use "Funny she doesn't look Druish" as the quote, instead?

No, we shouldn't. The quote shouldn't be any reference to Judaism. It should preferably reference a completely different stereotype in order to help pull the trope away from Jews In Space.

edited 11th Dec '10 8:31:52 PM by shimaspawn

Yeah, lets go find a quote about aliens acting suspiciously like Rastafarians, mon.

Sometimes people want to rename tropes just because. This is one of those cases.

Sometimes people want to rename tropes just because. This is one of those cases.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8lDYrvTILc&feature=related

edited 12th Dec '10 9:28:59 AM by TripleElation

I want to rename it because some think it's just about Jewish people.

How is that a response? I said don't tell me that isn't proof. "that's how proof works" is not proving a particular piece of evidence isn't proof. That was a particular comment, not a procedure comment, but that was the kind of response you gave.

Show the proof here. Don't say someone else found proof in a different thread.

The only proof I've seen here has been consistent with correct use.

Especially when said thread is no longer around.

Well there are more wicks anyway, so I'll look at a few (ignoring pages like indexes and false positives). Also keep in mind that limiting examples to what is implied by the name was good enough to rename "The Umbridge", as people kept thinking it was just her.

• 300: Misuse of a different kind. On that lost thread, someone proposed Suspiciously Ethnic Alien as a new name, as it would make it clear that it's both not about Jews or humans.
• Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura: Seemingly limited to Jews.
• Butt-Ugly Martians: Um, is the gambling the stereotype, or something not listed?
• Changeling: The Dreaming: Thinks it's about actual Jews.
• Harry Potter: Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone: Possibly limiting to Jews. Not sure what other stereotype someone thought the goblins represented.
• Characters: Pokémon Anime Current Main Cast: Limiting to Jews, by just noting something Mewoth says, not any actual stereotype.
• Aion: Limited to Jews, and about persecution more than stereotypes.
• Alien Scrappy: Just mentions Watoo, when about half the examples should count for that trope.
• All Trolls Are Different: Ethnicity other than Jewish.
• Alter Kocker: Limiting to Jews (of course that was deliberate in the movie, but this is about confusion over the name of course).
• Ambiguously Jewish: Misuse. Thinks it's about Superman being vaguely Jewish, not about any stereotypes.
• Anathem: Limited to Jews, and about persecution more than stereotypes.
• A Nazi by Any Other Name: Apparently correct.
• BetterThanItSounds.AnimeAndMangaP-S: Ethnicity other than Jewish.
• Ass in a Lion Skin: Limited to Jews.
• Avatar: Ethnicity other than Jewish.
• Battlefield Earth: Ethnicity other than Jewish.
• Black-and-Gray Morality: Refers to humans, and confuses this with A Nazi by Any Other Name.
• Borscht Belt: Limited to Jews.
• Braids, Beads and Buckskins: Ethnicity other than Jewish.
• Caprica: Since they are the precursors of humanity, that counts as a misuse.
• TroperTales.Complaining About Complaining: Refers to a thread outside this site, so I'll just leave that one.
• Conan The Barbarian: Humans, and confuses stereotype with persecution.
• Continuity Drift: Personal comment that I just edited, but referred to Watto.
• Cosmopolitan Council: Assuming they were not human, and thus would count, the entire group should be this trope, not just the Jew.
• Crystal Dragon Jesus: One example listing them as Jews, and another might be another misuse. Are the Bajorans of Deep Space Nine stereotypes of anything?
• David Icke: Limited to Jews.
• Pantheon.Defense: Might be limiting to Jews.
• Der Ring Des Nibelungen: Limited to Jews.
• Dune: Refers to humans, and limits it to Jews.
• Eberron: Limited to Jews, and dubious as the writer was Jewish (as in more like writing a familiar culture than a stereotype).
• Equal-Opportunity Evil: Not sure, as I don't know the full context.
• Fading Suns: Possibly refers to humans, and assuming that this trope is figurative to Jewish people, not stereotypes.
• Fantastic Max: Ethnicity other than Jewish.
• Fantastic Racism: Most refer to other ethnicities, but one seems to imply that it's just about Jews. Not sure though.
• Fantasy Counterpart Culture" Both are limited to Jews, and the latter confuses persecution with stereotyping.
• Fat Bastard: Possibly limiting to Jews.
• LargeHam.Film: Refers to Watto, so I'll count that as limiting to Jews.
• AlternativeCharacterInterpretation.Film: Watto again.
• Five-Token Band: I think has another ethnicity.
• Flat-Earth Atheist: Um, not sure of the context of what ethnicity they are supposed to be.
• Fly Tales: Ethnicity other than Jewish.
• Fugitive Alien: Ethnicity other than Jewish.
• Funny Foreigner: Seems to refer to the trope in the proper context.
• Characters.Futurama: Just refers to Zoidberg, when the show has other alien characters that would count.

I can do more later.

edited 13th Dec '10 7:37:41 AM by DragonQuestZ

Are the Bajorans of Deep Space Nine stereotypes of anything?

Not anything in particular. Throughout Star Trek they're implied to be a race who bases their religion of the Prophets around their daily lives, while they're also a race who had to overcome the conquering of their home planet by the Cardassians. A Bajoran often has an earring connecting a small chain to their nose ridge as a symbol of their religious devotion. Other than some devout jewelry and a bad disposition against a race who had once taken their planet over, they're a pretty normal race of beings.

edited 13th Dec '10 10:11:35 AM by DRCEQ

Then that's a misuse as well.

^^^To be fair, a few of those wicks would only be limited to Jewish stereotypes because those are the only stereotypes that are invoked in a work/by an author/etc.

I'll acknowledge that a lot of those are misuse, too, but just because something is only naming Jews still doesn't mean it's automatically misuse. Even with a rename, a lot of the wicks you're listing would still only list Jewish stereotypes.

edited 13th Dec '10 10:30:58 AM by SeanMurrayI

Okay, some of the works only have that, but did you miss where I wrote that some works have non Jew-like ethnicities that were not listed as the trope? Those would count as misuse.

^I did not miss that, and I agree that those are definitely misuse.

However, every mention of Watto that potholes to Space Jews is not necessarily misuse.

If he's the only Star Wars character listed as an example of this particular trope, that's misuse. Yet Watto is still an example nonetheless, and potholing to Space Jews when discussing Watto as an individual example of other tropes (like Large Ham; though I never thought of Watto as a Large Ham, but we'll save that for another time), would not be misuse.

edited 13th Dec '10 10:54:04 AM by SeanMurrayI

Okay, I'll cop not every one is misuse (some were, in that they left out Jar-Jar). I did try to get through the tropes quickly.

edited 13th Dec '10 10:54:47 AM by DragonQuestZ

That's quite a bit of misuse, though obviously the ones that are just about Jews might well be correct.

For the record, if a rename is needed, let me put in another vote for Stereotypes In Space.

Bajorans are mainly based off of Jews, with a mashup of other sources mixed in.

Part of the problem might be that "not-Jews" are the stereotype most likely to appear in speculative fiction.

edited 13th Dec '10 8:52:44 PM by Sackett

Actually, in my experience with the genre they're one of the rarer ones actually which makes the fact that they're almost all the examples more puzzling.

Why do people think Watto is Jewish? I always thought he was an Arab merchant stereotype. I'm from Jersey, and I've been to Israel, and I'll tell you that the Arab merchants in the Old City are much closer to Watto than any of the countless Jewish people I know.

^In all honesty, I think both have been valid interpretations from fans, at least when The Phantom Menace was a fresh release, only with a greater number of viewers focusing on "Jewish" qualities. By Attack Of The Clones, even Lucas was emphasizing the Jewish stereotypes (which is where the page image came from).

edited 13th Dec '10 9:21:48 PM by SeanMurrayI

How are the Bajorans based off Jews? You're gonna have to explain that one to me.