During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Hearns. Need to think about Christie.
Take care, Bullman.
Unsure about Christie, but Hearns gets a hearty
I understand people's concerns as Hearns is far more intimidating and visually more active. But thing is at the end of day all of this could only happen because of Christie.
And its not like he just hired Hearns to cause an active disaster and left the specifics up to him, its made clear he was an active participant in the decision making during the entire process.
But him not wanting to get his hands dirty and being at heart a coward doesn't take away from the fact he's responsible for so many people dying horribly.
Ultimate Moral Compass
Take care Bullman
Hearns, abstain on Christie.
Alright here's another song candidate that I'm not the most confident on, but decided to give it a shot regardless.
What Is the Work?
To the Bottom of the Sea is a loose Concept Album released in 2007 by dark cabaret singer and certified goth Voltaire, aka Aurelio Voltaire. I say ‘loose’ because it’s kind of a Random Events Plot.
The plot mainly revolves around a young tinker who tires of all the social unrest going on in his homeland, so he ventures off at sea to make his fortune. A lot of things happen both before, and a lot of things happen after that. Still, the music’s solid, as expected from a Voltaire album, especially the last song on the album, “Death, Death (Devil, Devil, Devil, Devil, Evil, Evil, Evil, Evil Song)”.
The first quarter of the album deals with the Industrial Revolution, particularly the negative side. New machines mean people who can (and in fact did) exploit the common folk for the sake of their own monetary pride. This candidate is no exception.
Who Is he?
The Robber Baron, the subject of the songs “Robber Baron” & “Stakes and Torches (The Uprising of the Peasants)”, (lyrics found in both songs’ descriptions) is the dictator of a nameless city in Europe, and an obese elitist who lives up to his given moniker.
What has he done?
A “cold heartless beast” who represents the worst of the Industrial Revolution, the Robber Baron, in his self-titled song, forces children as young as 8 to serve as slaves forced to work in his assembly lines, uncaring if they injure themselves. Some of them are even missing arms and feet. When he’s not busy counting his gold and basking in his greed and glory, the Robber Baron’s poorly treating his own citizens, leaving them poor and starving as he dines on fancy food, all while staring down at his people’s plights from above inside his castle. And if that’s not enough, the Baron sends out his own police squad to abuse and terrify his citizens into staying in line, refusing to let anybody break free from his nasty control. But the townspeople have had enough. The narrator of the song calls for a riot, to which everybody agrees upon.
“Stakes and Torches” deals with the townsfolk getting together and barging into the Robber Baron’s castle, pitchforks and scythes in hand. One of the townsfolk, an elderly woman, weeps upon seeing how majestic and fancy the castle interior is; just another sign of how the Robber Baron values his own money and self-worth over the lives of his own people. The townsfolk promptly attack the Robber Baron while he’s sleeping, removing his head and ending his reign of terror.
Redeeming Qualities?
Zero. The Robber Baron shows no sympathy or kindness to those who serve under him. He is a man who prides himself in not only on his greed, but his “creed” as well.
Heinousness?
The Robber Baron doesn’t speak, but his actions are all described in detail, his title song labels him as pretty much a heartless monster, and he does stuff like greedily count his gold knowing that his poor citizens are suffering underneath his rule. There is a character underneath all of that obvious social commentary, and there’s a story being told throughout these songs, even if they’re part of the first act of a longer story.
While plenty of Voltaire’s songs deal in black comedy by the truckload (see “Cantina”, “Dirtiest Song That Ain’t”, and “The Trouble with Tribbles”), the Robber Baron is the only one of his characters to be played seriously. As for the rest of the album, even with its random plotting, the Robber Baron stands out above everybody else.
Conclusion
I think he’s a keep.
"No running in the halls!"
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to the anthrax duo (that seems like an absolutely INFURIATING Karma Houdini), sure to the Robber Baron.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
to the Robber Baron
Goku Black
robber
to the Robber Baron.
Robber Baron
『 』
Robber Baron
Hearns, Christie and the Robber Baron.
Okay whilst waiting for Christie to be resolved, here is my first batch of write ups:
- Silent Witness:
- Season 13’s Shadows: Scott Weston is a charismatic university student who’s good looks, intelligence and seeming protectiveness of his “friends” hides the fact that he’s a sociopathic attention seeker, who takes weaker individuals under his wing to control them and is obsessed with the idea that people are just “shadows of men”. Forcing Jason to build him chemical bombs, Scott slit his major artery when Jason got cold feet, leaving him to bleed to death. The next day, Scott went on a shooting spree throughout the university massacring his fellow students, lecturers and Detective Salchs, overjoyed at their futile attempts to run and hide from him. The entire killing spree intended to lure hundreds of people to the campus in the aftermath, including his own loving parents whom he personally invited, so that they would all die when his bombs went off, thus writing Scott’s name into the history books with his victims blood.
- Season 13’s Home: Adebare is a ruthless Nigerian gangster who founded and runs the Ten Grand, an underground sex club based in Cape Town that forces underage girls into prostitution. To ensure a steady supply of victims, Adebare has a corrupt agent in immigration supply him with vulnerable refugees. Keeping the girls in total isolation and playing on their fears to make them dependent on him, Adebare also regularly drugs them to ensure they are submissive whilst with his clients. Following two girls dying during a session with a client, Adebare covers up their deaths and when two more try to escape, he personally hunts them down. For daring to defy him he murders Nyasha by having her necklaced, whilst forcing Daya to watch the entire execution.
- Season 15’s Red Hill: James Wade has the distinction of being the least sympathetic victim ever encountered by the Lyle Centre. A paedophilic Serial Killer, whilst barely in his teens Wade repeatedly tortured his younger sister Miriam with a knife. As a grown man, having used Miriam as a template to find out what he enjoyed, Wade took to preying upon little girls. Kidnapping them, such as in one incident where he laid at trap then lured her away by pretending to help, he would rape and torture the child before finally killing her. Succeeding in murdering nine victims by his grizzly MO before his arrest, Wade died despised throughout the entire country with not a single personal mourning his passing.
Thoughts?
Robber Baron (was hoping for a Voltaire candidate)
Again Bull, good luck. We’ll be here when you get back.
Take it easy, Bullman. Come back whenever you feel you're ready.
I have a proposition: I think that Major Krauss should be cut. The original EP says that he's responsible for turning Toulon into a bad guy, but really ... I'd call that a stretch. Toulon was only ever a villain in one movie in the Full Moon canon, and even then, his body count by proxy is greater than Krauss'. So between Toulon, Gallagher, and Sutekh, I really don't see him meeting the heinous standard. Plus Krauss seemed to be willing to keep his word about letting the boy and his father go in exchange for ratting out Toulon, at least at first.
EDIT: Did NOT mean to doublepost.
Edited by Stellarvore on Oct 12th 2020 at 2:08:49 PM
All for a cut, reading Krauss’s rap sheet
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I'm fine with a cut.
I guess we should add Puppet Master vs. Demonic Toys to the Demonic Toys tree as well as the Puppet Master one?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
cut krauss. He sounds generic as hell tbh.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Cut Krause to Piers Christie and Ronnie Hearns and the robber
Christie, Hearns and Robber Baron
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Krauss
@ACW I think that sounds good. Also, I've got a new candidate.
What's the work?
"Shot in the Head" is a song from the American Dumpster Fire Metal — I mean, Death Metal, band, Six Feet Under who I was totally never a fan of at any point in time, about a Zodiac Killer expy with even greater delusions of grandeur.
Who is the protagonist? What has he done?
I'll just post the lyrics here:
Intro: Hello, no one is available to take your call. Please leave a message after the tone. *beep* A merciless god I am among the human waste. Your search is in vain. By the time that you discover what you believe to be the truth there will be no one left to save, because I have perfected my killing technique. *beep* (Iggy Pop?! What are YOU doing here?
A shotgun blast to the fucking face
A broken skull from the high impact
Blunt force murder from the hated within
Each night I kill a new victim
Grey matter exits gaping wounds
In your head a gush of blood runs from you
As the fine red mist clears and falls like rain
To kill again and again
Shot in the head
A .22 to the back of the neck
13 shots to the cranium
Implosion of blood and brain and bone
Pull the trigger and watch the head explode
Explode!
Grey matter exits gaping wounds
In your head a gush of blood runs from you
As the fine red mist clears and falls like rain
To kill again and again
Shot in the head
A .22 to the back of the neck
A shotgun blast to the fucking face
A broken skull from the high impact
I plot to kill everyone on the planet
To kill again and again
To kill again and again
Mitigating qualities?
Does it sound like it? I'd say that unlike a good chunk of the recent music cuts, he clearly has a personality
Heinous standard?
Deep breath. Okay, I can do this without making any jabs at Chris Barnes for being an egotistical hack or making fun of his vocals.
Seriously now. As far as the entirety of Death Rituals, there's maybe only two other candidates who might come anywhere close to counting, the protagonist of "Death By Machete", who has clearly killed more than one person, including women and children, and the protagonist from "Murder Addiction", but he's clearly too mentally ill and his body count sounds even more vague than either of them.
Verdict?
If the Soulcollector can still keep despite the recent purge, so can this guy.
Edited by Stellarvore on Oct 12th 2020 at 4:06:55 AM
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Leaning yes to the Robber Baron
Not sure on Christie. Seems his partner may outshine him.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."