During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
That's fine. As long as they're in the Drafts, anyone can feel free to fix them up.
On the Alone in the dark continuity, the 2001 game is mostly unconnected to the original trilogy, though there is a mention of the Edward Carnby in that game being descended from a family of paranormal investigators, potentially implying that he's the descendant of the trilogy's Carnby. The original trilogy was in the 1920s and New Nightmare was set in 2001. Regardless, I think Morton is different enough from the Trilogy's villains to count.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yeah, for a game in 1992? I think that's enough.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
I can chase the wind, I can race the rain
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Pregst
The Draftsman of Doom
I admit that there was initally an element of pride to whether I believed a monster counted or not.
These days, as far as I'm concerned, as long as I address everything that needs to be addressed if I think a character might fit, I can be somewhat assured that I made a productive contribution. As far as I'm concerned, a villain's Complete Monster status is a narrative tool. It generally is supposed to serve a purpose. What that purpose is depends on the goals of the author.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Oct 24th 2019 at 3:05:02 PM
Rawr.
to Ezekiel
Nosferatu and Ezekiel
The MILF Virus
Isthar and Ezekiel
Alone in the Dark kinda makes me sad since... anyone who knows what happened to the series knows what I mean.
"Are you the devil?" "Don't compare to me to those small fry" - Mir
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Well, it depends. Sometimes a character being a Complete Monster makes it more fun to hate them- or Love to Hate, as it were. I doubt Emperor Palpatine would be as enjoyable if he secretly had a heart of gold- fans love him precisely because he has zero goodness in him, which makes him fun to root against.
And @ACW, the thing is that I previously tried to edit the Emperor of Kutou rewrite, but it got reverted because it was considered me repeating what was already written (I wanted to link to Greater-Scope Villain since that is the big role he serves story-wise, but that got removed). That is why I wanted to disclose my editing this time.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Mengele again.
And, @The Immortal Angel Newton, I have no idea what happened to Alone in the Dark, so please explain to me what happened that was so sad. Sequelitis? Bad Reboot? Or something else?
Edited by MasterN on Oct 22nd 2019 at 6:36:50 AM
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
I've heard of Zombie. Is it American Psycho or even Frisk level-gross? I might wanna read it, but I could hardly make it through a certain chapter of the latter.
As promised, here is another incarnation of Josef Mengele.
What's the work?
"Reunion with the Angel of Death" is a creepypasta focusing on the final hours of one of the most depraved scumbag war criminals to ever walk the earth, where he is tormented by the grotesque ghosts of his numerous child victims.
Who is Josef Mengele? What has he done?
Pfffft. We're really asking this question? Alright, I'll humor you all: Josef Mengele, the Angel of Death. A Nazi "physician" at Auschwitz who liked to perform horrible experiments on many prisoners, with children among them, all for his own pleasu — er, excuse me, the good of the Aryan race. The pasta opens with him promising a young boy candy, claiming to be his uncle ... before taking a knife to his arm.
Cut to 35 years later, Josef is now living in luxury in Brazil, retired from his life's work, but in his thoughts, displays nothing but pride for his crimes against humanity.
- But there laid a feeling that now he missed the most dearly. The suffering of others. Of the children. Their agonies brought him joy to his heart. But now, that was gone. And he sorely missed those memories.
... say, that would make a good CM quote, I think. Ahem. Back to the EP.
While reminiscing on his past, Mengele hears a child's voice calling for his "uncle". It's the boy that he tortured, and he turns around to see him in a state of horrible rot. As he tries to flee, he finds a pair of sisters that he sewed together, a boy with his skull split open, and he runs screaming in terror into the lake as the children taunt him:
- Aren’t you glad to see us again, dear uncle, Angel of Death?
And needless to say, he drowns, and the last thing he hears is the voices of the children he tortured.
Mitigating factors?
It's Josef fucking Mengele.
In all seriousness, he IS pretty horrified at seeing the children, but, well, that probably has more to do the fact that he's being tormented by the ghosts of his victims and that they just happen to look even worse than how he last left them than it is that he's horrified at what he's done. And quite frankly, being scared to death by said ghosts was too good for him.
And ... yes, there is extensive Body Horror in this pasta, but it's pretty much justified here and nowhere near as horrible as some, even the ones that I like but I know are pretty hated in this thread.
Heinous standard?
In-universe? The Third Reich is only ever mentioned once. Really no contest here. Mengele was the worst.
Verdict?
It's Josef fucking Mengele. (yes, I'm playing on Lighty's "it's fucking Y'golonac" Running Gag)
Edited by Stellarvore on Oct 22nd 2019 at 8:37:45 AM
I can chase the wind, I can race the rain
Mengele
The Draftsman of Doom
Angel of Death.
Sorry to hear that. Nobody should have such a depraved individual defile their country's water with their corpse.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Oct 22nd 2019 at 9:56:35 AM
Rawr.
Yeah to Mengele.
I thought sharks were my friends.
Yay to Mengele.
RIP KissAnime.
Self-Declared King of Everything
Mengele.
Gentle Laborer
Mengele. He actually died in a neighboring city
◊ not far from where I live, had a stroke while swimming and drowned, see you in Hell.
Edited by TheMadCr0w on Oct 22nd 2019 at 11:53:11 AM
Here's the write-up for the Ice Witch from Tweeny Witches: The Adventures. She should go after Grande from the original series.
- Tweeny Witches: The Adventures: The Ice Witch, from "The Ice Witch and the Dragon of Fire and Ice", posed a grave threat to the witches as the Dragon of Fire and Ice two centuries ago. Seeking to Take Over the World, she froze the land and those who stood in her way, including Kunetke and Tole, both of whom she took hostage against Gana. When confronted by Gana and her remaining two companions, she possessed Gana's young sister, Hanamomo, taking advantage of the fact that any attempt to forcibly remove the stabbing icicle would kill her host. Despite already having great magic, she coerced Gana into entering her mouth in an attempt to absorb the magic of the most powerful witch serving the grand master. She seemingly kept her promise to Gana by letting Hanamomo awaken an unfrozen Tole, only to possess Hanamomo again in an attempt to stab Tole in the back. When Gana managed to escape alive, she decided to seal Gana away as a last resort.
Edited by IukaSylvie on Oct 22nd 2019 at 10:52:06 PM
to Stellavore's example.
RE: Master N
I think they are referring to the reboot not doing so well.
The original Alone in the Dark 2 of 1993 suffered from Executive Meddling, but despite the forced action parts, it still manages to be a game I enjoy and it got great reviews at the time, though it is much less scary. Actually given Alone in the Dark's parallels to Resident Evil, you can think of it alot like RE 4.
Edited by Monsund on Oct 22nd 2019 at 6:55:27 AM
Gentle Laborer
Oh yeah and to Ezekial, I miss AITD...
Mengele.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Ishtar, Prezgt and Mengele
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Jiemmo and Finnegan
Yes to Mengele.
@ N, The Emperor got reverted because you said you were fine with me doing so... there was a reasoning for it.
Shin Megami Tensei IV
I wouldn't be surprised if we get more Alone in the Dark keeps.
...will we ever discuss the attempted reboot from - I believe - 2009? Cause oh boy does the villain have some choice quotes.