During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Kaitlin and Will
Showtime!
to Kaitlyn and Will
Abstain on Reiko pending further information on the heinous standard
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
Gentle Laborer
Ryuuzouji, Krang, Michael, Lighty's duo. I'll abstain on Reiko until someone who is familiar with the franchise gives their opinion.
I thought sharks were my friends.
Yeah to Lighty's guys.
RIP KissAnime.
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
IIRC (been a while since I last played the games), Reiko had lower resources than other MK CMs - I can be wrong, that being said -, so I'm going with a weak yes.
That being said, sure to Kaitlin and Will.
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to Krang.
Yes to Michael. The Ilaria dude who created the virus is trying to PREVENT global genocide? Huh.
Yes to the slasher duo. I must've missed it; how is the film subversive?
Abstain for now on Ravok; is Havik worth an EP?
EDIT: Oh, fun fact: Christopher Shyer, who played Doug in Two Sentence Horror Stories, was one of the original Bellisarioverse CMs: Kyle Thomas Boone.
Edited by ACW on Oct 16th 2019 at 9:56:35 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Kaitlin and Will
Another character who could be worth a discussion. Given the outcome on other family friendly works, I'm not sure he makes it, but let's still try.
What's the Work?
Dinotrux is a family friendly, science-fiction, CGI, and TV show franchise, based off of the books by Chris Gall. (The show is a Netflix original made by Dream Works, so you'll be able to watch it there.) The main character of the show is Ty Rux, who seeks to build a strong community in the Crater with the support of other Dinotrux. However, he has to face the franchise's Big Bad, D-Structs, to keep the community safe in the Crater, but then he has to face D-Stroy as well, the latter character making his debut in Dinotrux: Supercharged.
Who is the Candidate?
D-Stroy is the Bigger Bad of the Dinotrux franchise. He intends to work with D-Structs so that they can take over the Crater together, but Ty Rux and his gang try to stop them, so the two brothers try to kill them in horrible ways. However, D-Stroy has bigger plans.
What has he Done?
D-Stroy once worked together with D-Structs to harm and abuse other Dinotrux, including a trio of Hydrogons. However, during their battle with the Hydrogons, D-Structs betrayed his brother and left him for dead, resulting in D-Stroy losing part of his right horn in the process. Despite the brothers' departure, D-Structs somehow knew where D-Stroy's hideout was.
In the titular episode of the same name, called "D-Stroy", D-Structs has his henchman, Skrap-It, to go to D-Stroy's hideout after he is immobilized by Scraptors. However, D-Stroy chases Skrap-It back to his younger brother. When they meet each other again, D-Structs and D-Stroy discuss their backstory of the former leaving the latter behind and them departing back to their own ways. After the discussion, D-Stroy tries to manipulate D-Structs into helping him. D-Structs rejects the offer at first, but reluctantly agrees to help D-Stroy, where they fight off the Scraptors and trap them in their own home. After that, D-Stroy later stalks D-Structs and Skrap-It, where he comes up with an evil plan to kill Ty and his gang once and for all.
In the 7th episode of Season 2 of Dinotrux: Supercharged, called "Bad Build", D-Stroy and D-Structs find the same mother Dreadtrux (a mix between a Dreadnoughtus and a giant vehicle) the latter (and Ty's gang) encountered before. They proceed to abuse her until she learns to follow their orders, turning her into a deadly creature against her own will. When D-Stroy starts to use the Dreadtrux to terrorize the Crater, D-Structs starts to come up with a plan. with D-Stroy testing his intelligence in said plan, where D-Structs says to wait and wreck Ty's builds and leave so they'll be forced to redo their builds with purple ore, which is what the Dreadtrux eats, and then release the Dreadtrux onto the Crater, which would destroy much of Ty's builds in the Crater so the two brothers can take over. Their plan goes as expected, as the Dreadtrux destroys much of the builds while D-Structs and D-Stroy try to kill Ty and his gang (D-Stroy's tail grinders come very close to gouging out Ty's eye). Witnessing the Dreadtrux turning the Crater into a wasteland and D-Structs and D-Stroy overpowering his friends, Ty and his friend, Revvit, has the gang retreat to a secret forest that their ally, Xee, knows about, and build a renegade base there. It turns out D-Stroy wants more than ruling the Crater, as evidenced by his quote, “The Crater is just the beginning.”
In Season 3 of Dinotrux: Supercharged, D-Structs and D-Stroy become horrible tyrants ruling over the Crater, having enslaved everyone around them and even condemning the entire population of the Crater to mass starvation to force them to agree to help him defeat Ty and his gang. They also continually abuse the mother Dreadtrux, and even attempt murder on Ty and his gang several times. However, this is because D-Structs has been pressured by D-Stroy into working with him. Eventually, the D-Bros are finally defeated when the residents of the Crater are no longer afraid of them, and form a mob, returning to help Ty because he helped them. During the ensuing riot, D-Stroy betrays D-Structs by mockingly telling him that all of this is his fault, and that he's always been weak. Because of this, D-Structs, fed up with D-Stroy, tells the mob that the latter is all theirs, and they fight D-Stroy all the way to the tunnel the mother Dreadtrux, who is now on Ty's side, carved out for him and his friends to go back to the Crater, and the mob causes the entrance of the tunnel to collapse. It's possible that D-Stroy was killed by the mother Dreadtrux he had abused, as it would be a well-deserved punishment for his actions.
Freudian Excuse
The closest thing he has to a Freudian Excuse is that D-Structs left him to be beaten up by the Hydrodons, but this does not justify anything as D-Stroy was evil even before then, and it certainly doesn't justify starving an entire population just to force them to turn against the hero. Because of that, there can be absolutely no sympathy for this character. D-Stroy has no mitigating factors nor freudian excuses, as he is just plain horrible. In fact, he himself didn’t show any sympathy.
Mitigating Factors
None. D-Stroy is just using his allies simply to get what he wants. He has no redeeming nor altruistic qualities whatsoever, as he never showed sympathy, love, nor remorse. While it may seem he is genuinely nice to D-Structs, he's just using him for his own personal gain (there's at least a couple scenes where he's stalking D-Structs, and he eventually betrays him by calling him weak), and as D-Structs predicted to Skrap-It, “Don’t be a fool. He will betray me when he can.” (He was talking about D-Stroy at the time.) Aside from that, D-Structs seems to start becoming more genuinely nice to Skrap-It, as during his final appearance, he lets him ride on his tread.
Heinous Standard
D-Stroy crosses the heinous standards overall, and this has to do with the starvation of the Crater's community and the abusive treatment of the mother Dreadtrux.
In the episode "Renegades", D-Stroy didn't just simply starve any residents who would oppose him and D-Structs. He used a famine to starve the entire community to force them to turn against Ty Rux and his gang, forcing them to give up their ore, which is all they can eat. It's a petty case considering that there were other ways he could've turned the community against Ty. This act is heinous enough for a lighthearted show that is rated TV-Y7-FV, as it's rare for that type of media.
In the episode "Lil Dread", it's revealed that D-Stroy is very aware that the Dreadtrux he and D-Structs are abusing has a mother. This is proven in a scene in said episode when D-Stroy asks D-Structs if the baby Dreadtrux that Ton-Ton adopted, Lil' Dread, is from the same egg as the one from the Dreadtrux they are abusing. However, D-Structs reveals that because Lil' Dread's egg had different markings, he hatched from a different egg, with D-Stroy commenting that he likes it because "it's a willful one", as he and D-Structs can use two Dreadtruxes to do whatever they want. However, D-Stroy doesn't care, as shown in the next episode, "Ore Hunt", where he continually abuses his Dreadtrux to maintain his control over her, even though she has no more helium ore, which is all that she eats. However, this could make him come across more as a Hate Sink and less Pure Evil, but at least it's worth mentioning.
The usual villainy in the Dinotrux franchise involves vandalism and attempts to kill the main characters. However, D-Stroy goes beyond that. Even D-Structs, his younger brother, is not as heinous as him. D-Stroy has much bigger plans than him as well, as he intends to rule over another territory after taking over the Crater, and killing Ty and his friends. D-Structs seems more interested in only ruling the Crater. Also, let's also consider that while D-Structs did do what his brother did, that was only because he was pressured and manipulated into doing what D-Stroy wants.
Final Verdict
What you think about this?
Gentle Laborer
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Dunno, seems he is just messing with the heroes for most of the time.
Not feeling D-Stroi. Nay there.
The Draftsman of Doom
Will and Gra-I mean Will and Kaitlin.
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
D-Stroi
Edited by SkyCat32 on Oct 16th 2019 at 10:08:14 AM
Feels good, don't it?
Next one, with time up...
What's the work?
Attack on titan or Shingeki no Kyojin is a manga I've discussed before, about a world where humanity is seemingly extinct, walled within a vast nation that keeps out man eating giants called Titans...turns out there's a conspiracy, some people can turn into Titans and humanity isn't gone...rather it's an ancient grudge going back millennia between the walled lands, the Eldian people with their Titan power, and the industrialized nation of Marley seeking to destroy them...and the origin of this grudge? The first Titan was a woman named Ymir Fritz...let's talk the dark origins of the Titans...and the first Eldian King. King Fritz.
Who is King Fritz?
A brutal tyrant in a seemingly Celtic society, Fritz is a brutal tyrant who runs a kingdom of oppression, murder and violence, taking slaves with a policy of cutting out their tongues, and massacring others. Ymir was a young girl raised in slavery and brutally conditioned until she lacked a sense of self on her own, observing the horrors of the King's regime...until the day someone allowed a host of pigs to escape. The King decided to take an eye from all assembled slaves, until they blame little Ymir. The King decides to 'free' her...and turns her loose to be hunted for sport.
Ymir flees and stumbles upon...a mysterious creature that attaches to her, turning her into the first Titan with incredible powers. Despite being vastly more powerful, her slave mentality persists and the King orders her to fight for him...having Ymir destroy the enemies of the Eldians, slaughtering countless soldiers and civilians, building an empire on slavery and genocide.
Unsatisfied with this? The King makes Ymir his queen to give him children, raping her to use her as a broodmare so she breeds children...after years of this, an enemy tries to assassinate the king and Ymir throws herself in front of a spear meant for him. The King demands she survive....because he hasn't given her permission to die.
With Ymir dead? He has their daughters eat her corpse raw to inherit her powers, dividing it between nine titans, instituting a sickening tradition where they will be eaten by their successors to inherit it...and unleashes the Titans to destroy Marley and all others, with a legacy of slavery and massacre.
And the king? Dies of old age with no true justice for his crimes.
Heinousness?
AOT is dark as hell. The more sympathetic bad guys unleash the Titans on the Eldians, resulting in ungodly amounts of horrible death. Marley is a genocidal military power, and the current main villain wants to wipe out the Eldians, with even the hero Eren having dark schemes...it's a black world, but the King is from an age long past. He's just a guy, in a more primitive time who in one single chapters proves himself the most despicable villain in the series. And he's a rapist which is unique. But here? Torture, slavery, rape, personal cruelty, genocide...all of that while setting in motion the events of the series and the most fucked up family attitudes.
Mitigating Qualities?
Nothing. The man is just a blackhearted tyrant. He sees his family as tools...notably after years of being his queen, when Ymir is dying, his only concern? "I didn't say you could die!" before forcing his daughters to eat her corpse raw. Yeah, take that how you will.
Conclusion?
A keeper.
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
Okay so I just read the CM entries for MK.
Shang Tsung is Shao Kahn's Dragon, steals souls and keeps them in eternal torment, is an Evil Sorcerer, enslaved villages, used souls as fuel, tortures and vivsects people. That said? He's a Mad Scientist of sorts, and Kahn gives him plenty of ways to be just as bad as possible. Add to that his powers. Quan Chi is a more or less similar case, able to zombify plenty of people.
Shao Kahn... Not going to deal with him as his resources far surpasses Reiko. Being an emperor of Outworld and attacking other worlds...
Shinnok and Kronika are physical gods. In terms of resources, they're leaps and bounds above Reiko.
Now, Frost... Well, she willingly helped Kronika wipe the universe off the map, but Kronika gave her plenty of resources as well. That said, if anyone could prevent Reiko from making it, it's her. She started out with even lower resources than him. And painfully brainwashing her own colleagues is quite unique.
As for Reiko? Well, with nothing but his own brain, he pulls out many backstabbings, mass murders and specifically attacked his enemies' family many times. Upon becoming a "Blood God", he contemplates attacking two worlds. And he devours two armies.
In any other work, he'd have been an easy keeper, but here? Attacking several worlds and mass murders kinda come off as standard villainy. Attacking his enemies' families (or using them against them) is probably the only thing that give him an unique niche, and Frost started out lower than him.
Ultimately? I'm personally going with a very weak yes to Reiko, if only for the family stuff and his low resources compared to most of the MK CMs.
No to D-Stroi. Sure to King Fritz.
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
Gentle Laborer
Fritz.
YHVH getting approved and now another guy from AOT? This is lowkey historic.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Fritz.
Wait until Halloween. I have to see the film to see if he counts, but I may have another incarnation of a classic horror villain, played by a classic villain actor. See Lighty's Halloween EP last year.
Edited by ACW on Oct 16th 2019 at 10:35:17 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
-glares suspiciously at that Dinotrux EP-
Yeah, gonna vote for D-Stroy for now because that EP seriously feels like it's exaggerating the crimes. Admittedly, haven't seen Dinotrux before. And I've no intention of binge-watching its eight seasons just to see if D-Stroy counts.
I'll King Fritz though.
Kaitlin, Will, and King Fritz, to D-Stroy. Abstain on Reiko for now.
@ACW Hatake created the virus because his superiors ordered him to, but his conscience got the better of him and he attempts to make sure the project fails. What Ilaria wanted was a deadly disease and a cure they could control; a zombie plague doesn't fit the bill. In the end, he helps create the disease to wipe out immortals, apparently to try and atone for his actions.
Showtime!
Gentle Laborer
Reiko, thanks for explaining the HS, my dude. Demon, you should have expanded the heinousness section with that sort of info.
Wild Child
Fritz.
Yes to Fritz, at least we have Gross' well deserved demise to balance out this bastard being a Karma Houdini.
Ultimate Moral Compass
Krang, Michael, slasher duo, and Fritz
Okay. Looks like another no. Then bye again.
NOTE: I'm not Misry 6. I also ran across All The Tropes Wiki and Villains Wiki, because anyone wishing to see villains or older/alternative versions has can land there.
I'm also not Walrus Guy. (Another user seen on both wikis.)
Edited by Fan727 on Oct 16th 2019 at 8:52:13 AM
I tweaked the EP a little, but it's already too late. I failed. I should have thought about it more, but I was also scared of failing again. Which I most likely have already done.
Reiko is an interesting case. He does indeed lack the resources that beings like Shao Kahn, Kronika, Shinnok and others have. Like Frost, he started off small and more or less on his own. Yes he had an army once but more or less was a squad of warriors.
He's ambitious and ruthless like Shao Kahn, but like Frost he's narcissistic and arrogant. Though while Frost's goals is ultimately power so she can be acknowledged, Reiko believes himself to be a ruler, someone who people should serve and not him serve under someone else.
It's true he was poisoned by Havik's manipulations (In that the prophecy was fabricated by Havik to manipulate Reiko) but most of that inflated sense of worth would actually be from Shao Kahn. He adopted him and possibly groomed him to be his heir, and therefore Reiko came to believe he was destined to rule, to conquer.
Havik increased that ego of his and made Reiko believe he should be the one true god that rules over existence and should wage war with the Elder Gods.
Yeah Shinnok kinda did it first, but Shinnok isn't motivated by conquest (At least not entirely) but by vengeance and destruction, as he wants to awaken the One Being and have him destroy reality.
Reiko wants to instead slaughter all that is and become the Blood God, the ruler of all things through the Blood Code. All because of his inflated sense of worth and his delusions of godhood.
He's not Kronika, a Control Freak who wants to create the perfect timeline at the cost of creating endless suffering and misery.
He has no grand army or huge plate of allies, just a duo and maybe a few minions but they're pawns to him. Hell he even shows he's willing to betray or kill Havik should the cleric annoy or anger him too much.
I might also try and EP Havik as everything he does in the comics is all him and no one else. He did everything himself just by manipulating Reiko.
Fritz
D-Stroy
