During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Handsome Head of Hyperion
He starts burning down the fire stations of the city to start to make sure that no firefighters will be able to stop him, and the fires begin to spread to other buildings before Batman stops him, and during the ensuing chase Firefly brags that once he's done with the fire stations and no one can stop him he'll move on to the rest of the city.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
That works for me.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Wait, Arkham Firefly tries to burn down all of Gotham? Switching from a ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to a ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
then
Handsome Head of Hyperion
For anyone still in doubt, Firefly outright says "Scarecrow promised me Gotham. Tinder for my flames. You can't stop the fires, Batman. Gotham...her buildings...her people...they will all be reduced to ash. Gotham needs to burn," during his final Knight missions, making it clear what he's planning to do once the fire stations and their equipment are eliminated.
Edited by AgeOfTropeEmpire on Oct 11th 2019 at 7:32:43 AM
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Also going with for Firefly.
Freely admitting that I fucked up with Firefly. Sorry to Age for almost getting a completely legitimate candidate cut because of my stupidity.
Don't worry, Fried. You brought up a legitimate point, and it was answered, exactly how a collaborative forum should work. No harms, no fouls, man.
Handsome Head of Hyperion
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
You were not being stupid at all, you raised legitimate points that I did not fully address in the effortpost, and hearing Firefly's bragging to burn down Gotham can be difficult depending on how you fight him. I think you made a very good and possibly solid argument for at least a closer look at him.
Edited by AgeOfTropeEmpire on Oct 11th 2019 at 8:09:49 AM
I thought sharks were my friends.
Fried, please stop beating yourself up. We make mistakes and learn from them, and in this case you made a legitimate point that made several of us question whether or not Firefly stays. That's the whole point of this thread, to discuss amd debate any candidates who should or shouldn't belong.
RIP KissAnime.
Abstaining on Firefly, he's bad, but I'm not sure if he meets the baseline. I'll have to replay the games again to make a concrete opinion
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
I agree. We at the end, are humans who can make mistakes after all and I'm with Delphine, don't push yourself Fried.
With that being said, I'm fine with Tyreen and Firefly staying.
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
The MILF Virus
For Firefly, Aberdad... and you know Builder Bear (the 2nd most evil stuff bear next to Teddy Ruxpin)
I got to ask, can setting play an integral role in someone qualify or not? Like, there is this serial killer in a setting full of them, but the difference this one has between the others is that this killer lives in a very peaceful area and does the murder out of thrills. The other killers are set in dangerous areas like the slums or imperial capital which the setting isn't so kind. And while the other killers also does thing out of bad reasons, this one had no real reason to do such a thing and is the only one of his kind. Their all in the same universe, but in different locations.
"Are you the devil?" "Don't compare to me to those small fry" - Mir
Okay sure to Firefly
Here's mine in before this week's set is collected.
The Legend of the Spelljammer: The Fool is a powerful lich that dwells in the bowels of the eponymous Spelljammer and is by far the greatest threat to those that live upon the ship. The Fool was once a human captain that used the nearly godlike power of the Spelljammer to rampage across the sphere and take revenge on anyone who he ever deemed to have crossed him. When the ship itself tried to cast him down from captaincy, this evil captain called on pacts with demonic powers to turn him into an undead abomination. The Fool kills anyone who explores the warrens inside the ship and raises them into his army. Seeking to destroy all life on the Spelljammer, the Fool secretly manipulates a group of human supremacists that he uses to spread chaos and mayhem upon the non human population. In particular, he used them to murder dozens by bombing the elven academy and placing blame on the goblinoids, igniting fierce war between both factions. He allied with the vicious Neogi and gave them a magical plague they used to wipe out the Beholders, and hired an assassin to murder the heads of many of the factions and spread turmoil. When the next captain arrived and the gardens on the ship closed, the Fool intended to lead his undead horde to slaughter the starving population before murdering the Spelljammer itself an raising it as his own undead creation. With the Spelljammer under his control, the Fool intended to ravage the cosmos and wipe away all sentient life, one crystal sphere at a time.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Lizzid people!
Just got finished with one of the shows I had decided to hold discussion for. Feel free to PM me on the details.
Edited by AustinDR on Oct 11th 2019 at 10:36:59 AM
Meister, Bear, Azerbad, Firefly and Director
Leopold
I saw Even Evil Has Standards and Pet the Dog entries added to the character page for Muzan Kibutsuji from Demon Slayer: Kimetsu no Yaiba. What should we do?
- Even Evil Has Standards: A very downplayed example, as Muzan is still the most unrepentantly cruel and selfish character in the series, but he is shocked by the fact that Kagaya would willingly sacrifice the lives of his wife and children in pursuit of his vengeance, and considers the man to be insane. He ponders whether or not Kagaya had even informed them of his plan, unaware that they chose to be Together in Death. He quickly moves on from the thought, but it is still notable to see someone as evil as Muzan taken aback like that.
- Pet the Dog: Despite his penchant for cruelty towards his subordinates, he is still capable of this trope at times.
- He genuinely gives Daki words of encouragement when he visits her and says that she is a "special" demon. This moment stands out due to his treatment of the much stronger Akaza in his previous appearance, violently reprimanding him for expecting praise after killing Rengoku. After Daki and Gyuutarou's deaths, Muzan also states that he always considered Gyuutarou to be the true Upper Moon 6 and says that his brotherly attachment to Daki was his downfall, further making his kind treatment towards her stick out.
- He also happily congratulated Hantengu for discovering that Nezuko had conquered the sun, allowing the cowardly demon to die feeling a great sense of accomplishment.
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
Btw, quote proposal, it's long but here's the quote in question:
"When we traded bodies... Viola, you must have been surprised. My body was falling apart. It hurt all over. I was used to it, but I suppose you couldn't take it. It must have hurt. You cried in pain. So then I gave you medicine. A throat-burning medicine. It made you unable to speak. After all, I didn't want to hear my own screams. Since I lied that it would stop the pain, of course you would drink it. Heehee. Then I escaped from this room. In the garden, I felt the gentle breeze. Ahh... It was wonderful. Ah, that's right. Before you came, I gouged my eyes out. I cut off my legs. So that Viola, in my body, would despair as she died."
This is Ellen's secret diary entry from The Witch's House btw. Thoughts on it?
Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Oct 11th 2019 at 11:43:05 AM
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
- The Afflicted: Maggie is a housewife who kills her husband when he tries to leave her. Descending into religious mania, Maggie starts viciously beating her four children at the slightest provocation. To get money in the house, she makes her son become a day labourer while pimping out her eldest daughter. After an attempt at Force Feeding her middle daughrer goes wrong, Maggie shoots her in the shoulder and locks her in the bathroom for a week, eventually killing her with a vodka and painkiller anaesthetic when she tries to remove the bullet herself. The eldest daughter troes tp escape the horror and finds her father's corpse, so Maggie forces her other two kids to beat her and lock her in a closet to starve to death before selling her remaining daughter in her place.
Edited by DemonDuckofDoom on Oct 11th 2019 at 11:50:37 AM
I thought sharks were my friends.
How does this quote sound? I'd use the quote thread, but it's pretty much dead.
to Firefly.
Builder Bear, however...
Firstly, is he even aware what he is doing is wrong? Reading the SCP, I never got that vibe. He comes off as more like a child who likes taking his toys apart and putting them back together again... only his "toys" are living people. Yes, it's suggested the "adorable living toy" shtick was an act, but the skip itself is vague enough to be taken either way.
Secondly, given the SCP universe, does he actually meet the heinous standard? Yes, the shit he does is horrifying, but existing in the same universe as the Yule Man and SCP-106, who have a body count in the hundreds, and the Scarlet King, who seeks to destroy all of existence, somehow makes him come off as "no big deal."
Edited by Nathanoraptor on Oct 12th 2019 at 9:08:44 AM
to Aderbad, and change from abstain to on Firefly.
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
From what I understand we judge each SCP on There own do to the lack of an overall continuity.
And even then....while I can't speak for the other guys. The Scarlet King is a powerful Eldritch Abomination giving him WAY more recources then anyone else.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Ohhh I see. Didnt know that. Thanks
Edited by Kylotrope on Oct 12th 2019 at 4:05:22 AM
Things are really about to get Fun around here
Goku Black
No we don't.
They do need to compare to each other.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Is it just talk, or does he make SOME effort of burning Gotham down?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts