Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

He will go the last among canon monsters, but before crossovers ones.

@acw: Btw heirs of chicagoland rvelaed that the soul of Eggegor (Sorcha's dragon construct thing) corrupted Merit's unborn child and has given her a thirst for violence and destruction. Do you want to add it to her entry or do you think its a bit too far related from her in order to be in her entry.

If she knew that would happen, add it; if not, don't bother.

Someone made an EP, guys.

Leaning yes

Hey guys I'm back. I managed to get Wi Fi at my new house.

Yes to Lighty's ones on the last couple of pages and Vile's TMNT and Spawn cannidates. As well as any others that went up while I was away.

Staying out of the AC stuff.

Abstaining on Shibumi though I'm leaning yay.

Late Happy 7000 pages guys!

Edited by Bullman on Jul 30th 2019 at 2:38:25 PM

Sure to shimbub

I'm not even sure Shim's heinous enough. He has, what, a few deaths? Compare that to other martial arts film. Bejo tries to start a Mob War. To say nothing of that candidate Scraggle put up some time ago (name escapes me).

Speaking of Bejo, a slight change (looks like the YMMV already HAD been changed, so I'm going with that):

• Complete Monster: Bejo acts as The Corrupter to the young gangster Uco, son of the top gangster of Jakarta, Bangun, who Uco feels has grown soft. Bejo shows his ambition in the opening scene by having the protagonist's brother executed via shotgun to the head for being a threat to him. He manipulates Uco by allowing him to slit the throats of men who had supposedly been behind an attempt on Uco's life (which Bejo was really behind) and convinced Uco to betray and murder Bangun's old friend and top assassin Prakoso, who has been like an uncle to Uco, and frame the rival Japanese gang for it. After Bangun refuses to declare war, Bejo then dispatches his legions of assassins to provoke the Japanese gang by murdering several of their targets. When Bangun still refuses and reconciles with the Japanese, Bejo tricks Uco into murdering his own father. Driven by nothing more than greed and ambition, Bejo will stop at nothing to climb the ladder in Jakarta's underworld no matter how many bodies he leaves in his wake.

• The Raid 2: Berandal: Bejo acts as The Corrupter to the young gangster Uco, son of the top gangster of Jakarta, Bangun, who Uco feels has grown soft. Bejo shows his ambition in the opening scene by having the protagonist's brother executed via shotgun to the head for being a threat to him. He manipulates Uco by allowing him to slit the throats of men who had supposedly been behind an attempt on Uco's life—which Bejo was really behind—and convinced Uco to betray and murder Bangun's old friend and top assassin Prakoso, who has been like an uncle to Uco, and frame the rival Japanese gang for it, thereby provoking a Mob War. After Bangun refuses to declare war, Bejo then dispatches his legions of assassins to provoke the Japanese gang by murdering several of their targets. When Bangun still refuses and reconciles with the Japanese, Bejo tricks Uco into murdering his own father. Driven by nothing more than greed and ambition, Bejo will stop at nothing to climb the ladder in Jakarta's underworld no matter how many bodies he leaves in his wake.

Or, if we use the original writeup:

• The Raid 2: Berandal: Bejo acts as The Corrupter to the young gangster Uco, son of the top gangster of Jakarta, Bangun, who Uco feels has grown soft. Bejo shows his ambition in the opening scene by having a helpless man executed via shotgun to the head. Bejo manipulates Uco by allowing him to slit the throats of men who had supposedly been behind an attempt on Uco's life—which Bejo was really behind—and convinced Uco to betray and murder Bangun's old friend and top assassin Prakoso, who has been like an uncle to Uco. Bejo dispatches his legions of assassins to start a gang war by murdering multiple targets. When Bangun refuses to start the war with the Japanese, Bejo tricks Uco into murdering his own father. Bejo is driven by nothing more than greed and ambition, wanting to climb the ladder in Jakarta's underworld no matter how many bodies he leaves in his wake.

Edited by ACW on Jul 30th 2019 at 3:42:15 PM

Royal Couple. Abstaining on Shim.

to Taneal, Azdeha, Phlegm, and the royal couple

Everyone I missed.

So can Chinese Gods be considered a Bruce-sploitation film?

So since we seem to be in agreement that non sapient animals shouldnt affect the heinous standard.

Could we write up something for the the adminstra page

So, I've been sick and bedridden for the past few days, but I'm starting to feel a bit better... doing my best to catch up here.

"Yes" to the Spawn candidates, Lighty's candidates, Mengele/Hitler, Seth, and Crainiac. "No" to Shim. Doesn't seem like he's really played as the be-all and end-all of evil.

Hard no to Gradios. I've been suspicious of AC's standard for a while and this doesn't sound like it's cutting above the baseline. While we're at it, cut Roth as well, and, honestly, I don't see any reason why we shouldn't strike Majd Addin as well. We've got other serial-killing dictator types in the series now who go above and beyond, and merely being "the first" doesn't automatically give Majd an impenetrable foothold above the others. We've long held that the heinous standard evolves with a series, and if a character who once passed the standard falls under it over time (Tao Pai Pai, the Iron Masked Marauder/Yung, etc.) they should be cut. This isn't the first time Majd has come into question, and I don't see any more reason why he should be allowed to stay up under this hypocritical standard.

Rahgot's tough for me. The Dragon Priests are uniformly nasty, but at the same time, most of their villainy is merely informed. Those who are fleshed out more like Otar the Mad and Hevnoraak fall majorly under Offstage Villainy and others we barely get any information on at all. Really, my major issue with Rahgot isn't so much heinousness—for the shavings we get, he's the nastiest in the tier of the Dragon Priests and not many other characters at his level are massacring kids onscreen—so much as it is characterization. We only get a few sparse accounts of his cruelty and when he actually appears onscreen, it's as the same generic, voiceless boss every other Dragon Priest appears in.

Mulling it over, I'll just edge yes to him, honestly. He's distinct among the Dragon Priests, at least, and in that tier I think that gives him enough to distinguish himself in the overall setting, particularly the mass child murder.

On Elder Scrolls, by the by, I've got a candidate I've been dragging my feet on for way too long. From Elder Scrolls Online, meet High Kinlady Estre.

Who is Estre? What has she done?

Estre is an Altmer (the "high elves" of the setting, who are so vehemently racist it might as well be a species hat) noble and the sister-in-law of Ayrenn, the Queen of the Aldmeri Dominion and ruler of the Summerset Isles. Ayrenn is a radical among her people in that she—gasp—isn't a horrible racist monster and actually trying to unify the Altmer with the other races they've traditionally oppressed. This, obviously, causes controversy and dissent within the Altmeri ranks, and chief among them is Estre, who's not only pissed at her sister-in-law's ruling strategy, but that she was spurned from the throne.

Estre, to this end, forms a cabal of terrorist "freedom fighters" called the Veiled Heritance, seeking to oust Ayrenn from the throne and slam their oppressive rule across the Summerset Isles, expunging or slaughtering all non-Altmer races from the region before expanding across Tamriel. Making a bargain with the Daedric Prince Mehrunes Dagon to this end, Estre commits a wide series of atrocities as the "Veiled Queen": recruiting officers via lethal trials which involve killing the losers; having the spirits of her own ancestors corrupted by Daedric magic to turn them again Ayrenn; personally attempting to force a troubled recruit into tearing apart a Bosmer prisoner by manipulating her with the deaths of her family; ordering a mine called the Del's Claim occupied by the Veiled Heritance and the miners all massacred; and having a village named Silsailen razed and slaughtered. Estre even falsely promises the Maormer, the "sea elves," a place in her ideal Tamriel, having them attack random places in Auridon to spread widespread death and destruction, killing both countless innocents and wasting Maormer lives... upon which Estre plans to wipe out the Maormer as soon as their use expires.

Estre is eventually exposed as the Veiled Queen after her failed attempt to assassinate Ayrenn, and is forced to flee. Estre turns to receive direct aid from Mehrunes Dagon, and now with control over rampaging Daedra, decides to turn up the heat. Estre has the Daedra burn and slaughter their way through the Torinaan shrines, with one lucky survivor recalling how she only managed to hear screaming before the massacre started. Estre furthermore has the Daedra converge on the town of Dawnbreak to slaughter everyone there, with a majority of the town's populace wiped out, merely as a distraction to her true plan: to bring the Daedra down on Firsthold, one of the largest cities in Auridon, and burn the entire city to the ground. Thankfully, here she's stopped once and for all. Estre appears in the endgame, condemned to Coldharbour, where she tries to use her silver tongue to convince the Vestige to help her. Your choice as to if you liberate her or leave her to suffer for eternity.

Any mitigating factors?

I've gone on and on about how most of the Altmer are fucking abhorrent. A lot of the worst in the series are high mer; the Thalmor in their heyday are torture-happy Nazi elves who want to undo all of Mundus, Mannimarco is a cult leader with a penchant for And I Must Scream who wants to bring the rule of Coldharbour to all of Tamriel, Mankar Camaron wants to turn the entire world into Mehrunes Dagon's torture wonderland, etc. etc. etc. Even then, Estre has competition in Online, like Thallik Wormfather, a member of Mannimarco's wide-reaching cult with a giant body count in his own right.

Now, with all this said, I think Estre's cutting well above her standing. It's important to note that unlike Mannimarco or Mankar, she isn't a Big Bad. The Veiled Heritance, while a prominent villainous faction, isn't anywhere near as powerful or influential as the Order of the Black Worm or the Thalmor. Her end goal to force a racist, genocidal rule across the Aldmeri Dominion and potentially all of Tamriel isn't a unique end goal as far as the Altmer are concerned, but Estre's enormous body count and the amount of death and atrocity she wreaks up before she lets the Daedra cut loose are insane. Estre's about as bad as you get in the series without becoming a full-on Omnicidal Maniac, and in Estre's case, that's all she needs. She's worse than any one individual in the Thalmor and she's working with the benefit of cultists like Mannimarco.

Nothing else crops up that would mitigate. Estre tries to justify herself as "having done what I see as right" in Coldharbour, but that's a load of Knight Templar bullshit. Her sadism and fanaticism unnerves even some of the Veiled Heritance's own ranks and every single thing she does is for her own self-gain, even allying with the Vestige in Coldharbour should you make that choice.

Conclusion?

Frankly put, I think Estre's an easy qualifier. And yet another to add to the Altmeri ranks.

Thoughts?

Edited by Scraggle on Jul 30th 2019 at 2:44:52 AM

Estre

Btw how come Thalik doesnt qualify ?

Edited by miraculous on Jul 30th 2019 at 1:35:31 AM

Yes to Estre.

Sure to Estre. Even with her people being bigots, she seems like she stands out enough. Estre makes 7, Rahgot (Karma Houdini?) would make 8.

BTW, Hitler's EP will be tonight. Mengele and Jack were yesterday.

I agree; if he's bad enough fine, but just being the first CM doesn't mean Addin stays, unless he's genre-defining like Gruber or Myers.

Edited by ACW on Jul 30th 2019 at 4:37:16 AM

Well you get to fight and defeat Rahgot 's ghost. So I wouldnt say he completely gets away with it.

Yes to Estre there.

So that's the Bruce Lee animated film that we were talking about

to the recent candidates

to Phlegethonyarre, Queen Da Ji and the King and High Kinlady Estre.

Speaking of, what is the tally for Raghot?

to the Elder Scrolls baddies and Lighty's candidates.

I'll vote to cut Roth but I'll go with Lighty and vote to keep Majd.

to Estre

to those I misses except Grandios.

Cut Roth but Keep Majd

Taneal.

Azhdeha.

Phlegethonyarre.

King and Queen.

Estre.

Also I was looking at the discussion dates and saw The Lion King 2019 discussion is the day before The Lion Guard airs "Battle For The Pride Lands" which looks like we'll be seeing more of Scar's past. The irony of these dates make me a little nervous and amused.

Azhdeha, Phlogiston or whatever, the King and Queen and Estre. Abstain on Shibumi.

Yes to all of the candidates I missed especially the king and the queen...

Oh man... Da Ji...