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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#162201: May 9th 2019 at 9:23:55 AM

I'm leaning a VERY, VERY slight yes on the Primary.

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom from tall grass (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#162202: May 9th 2019 at 9:24:07 AM

I may have an effortpost later today from a C.E. Lawrence novel called Silent Victim, assuming the novel has not had any candidates discussed before.

Edit: I am adding her novels to my to do list, since there are more than I expected.

Edited by SkyCat32 on May 9th 2019 at 12:27:06 PM

Rawr.
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#162203: May 9th 2019 at 9:33:06 AM

Drafted:

  • Daredevil:
    • Wilson Fisk started out a hitman, who killed Jack Murdoch, before rising into a powerful businessman and Kingpin of crime in New York, controlling the criminal element in the city and helping criminals get out of jail time. Introduced killing two of his bodyguards for no discer able reason, when the public is becoming Fisk orders the murder of his former business partner Nikolas Natchios intending to have him framed as the Kingpin, calling in Bullseye to do the deed. Fisk also has a prostitute murdered when she was leaking information she got from what of his associates. When Matt Murdoch interrogates a corrupt cop on Fisk's payroll, he learns that when Fisk calls a hit on someone, he has the targets whole family killed as well, with Fisk ordering Bullseye to go after Nikolas' daughter Elektra. When Daredevil finally confronts Fisk, Fisk unmasks him at Matt, telling him that his killings were "just business" and when beaten, threatens to get his revenge on Matt by revealing his identity.
    • Bullseye is a swaggering Psycho for Hire who prides himself on his unerring aim and his total lack of regard for human life. Retained by Wilson "The Kingpin" Fisk as a troubleshooter, Bullseye is a mess of barely contained violence, who regularly murders in his off time. Over the course of the film he kills a man for insulting him in a bar, chokes an elderly woman to death for talking too much on a plane, murders another man in order to steal his motorcycle, and stabs one of Fisk's guards to death with pencils after deciding he'd rather not go through security. That's in addition to killing Nikolas and Elektra Natchios (and two of their bodyguards) on Fisk's orders, and trying to hunt down an already wounded Daredevil for the heinous crime of making him miss. An arrogant braggart who loves showing off against weaker opponents, and who is reduced to a sniveling wreck when beaten, Bullseye is completely void of redeeming qualities.

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#162204: May 9th 2019 at 9:36:53 AM

BTW, with Jackie's approval, here's a slightly-expanded-but-still-concise Timur:

  • Magnus, Robot Fighter (2010 Dark Horse Comics Reboot): Timur is the head of the Metal Mob, a criminal empire, and has bribed the entire police department to let him commit his myriad crimes. Among these crimes is Human Trafficking; when foiled, Timur orders his partners to destroy all evidence. Timur also runs a gladiator show, where humans are brutally slaughtered on live television. Yet another operation of his involves rich people paying to hunt down frightened Q-bots for fun. Caring only about lining his pockets with cash, Timur is willing to have both humans and the sapient Q-robs slaughtered for profit, despite the fact that he’s a Q-rob himself.

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Libraryseraph Showtime! from Canada (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
Showtime!
Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
#162207: May 9th 2019 at 9:56:50 AM

Yes to Primary and Jerry the Joker.

@ ACW, how long do want to keep the gamebook page in the sandbox, I know Lighty has some more candidates and I ordered some CYOA books from the library that may have monsters in them (no guarantee though).

@ Lighty, yeah, I remember Belgaroth and he did not seem as bad as some of these other villains and he may have loved his wife. I do remember Gruul having a fairly nasty endgame (not the worst in the series) and a lot of acts of personal cruelty, along with war criminal backstory. Do you with Gruul could be a MB or is he too vile?

Also since we have been talking about game books and tabletop games, apparently there was a TMNT RPG game with the fun name ''Truckin' Turtles", that features a Neo-Nazi as a villain:

https://turtlepedia.fandom.com/wiki/Karl_Wilson

Seems to be based on the Mirage TMNT, rather than the 1987 cartoon.

Edited by Overlord on May 9th 2019 at 10:02:28 AM

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#162208: May 9th 2019 at 10:03:54 AM

Lighty, no rush, but how long do you think it will take to get to all the other FF monsters?

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#162209: May 9th 2019 at 10:13:14 AM

Next Fighting Fantasy baddie

So, Blood of the Zombies was written in 2012 to commemorate the 30th anniversary of the franchise. Like House of Hell, it's set on modern day earth, and you are a mythology major at Bolingbroke traipsing around Europe to write your thesis on legendary monsters. Quoth the tropes page? "Before you can say "snap crackle and pop" you are kidnapped and thrown into the dungeons of Goraya Castle, the home of Mad Scientist eurotrash psycho Gingrich Yurr, awaiting transformation into a zombie to join his growing legion of the undead.

Enter....Gingrich Yurr

Who is Gingrich Yurr?

The lunatic scion of the Yurr family. Yurr is a ravenously psychotic man who dresses garishly, runs his own castle and went coocoo-bananas mad scientist out of hatred for humanity, believing that becoming a zombie is the best thing ever....and you've gotta take the wicked bastard on. Escaping the lab, you see what Yurr is doing: people are kidnapped from all over and experimented upon. Painfully, as you might expect, to make them into zombies...killing them and turning them into ravenous undead monsters that he then feeds other people to.

Now, Yurr has done this to hundreds of people, with over 300 + zombies in Groaya Castle, the shambling, twisted remnants of humanity hungry for flesh. Yurr spends his time trying to kill you via his sniper skills as a result, hunting you down and ranting at you over the loudspeakers. While never seen, he remains something of a presence. Now, you see the results of the horrific experiments committed and you have to kill every single zombie in the castle, because if one escapes into the world, it's game over.

Put simply? Yurr's ultimate scheme is to infect the world and wipe out of humanity due to his insane levels of misanthropy. He wishes to eradicated everyone and leave only a world of the undead...and then turns himself into a zombie that's able to think for the climax of the book to defeat you. By this point, you take Yurr on and defeat him, hand to han, before emptying a gun into his face. With yurr dead, the authorities arrive and see what's been happening, but realizing how dire it'd be if the truth got out, they cover it up and send you home.

I also refuse to believe this is not a reference to Newt Gingrich and nobody can convince me otherwise.

Heinousness?

See above...and this is a standalone on earth, so no heinous standard issues. I mean, trying to cause the zombie apocalypse, inhuman experimentation...the works.

Mitigating Qualities?

Well...Yurr is fucking NUTS. Like, he's off his rocker, sadistic and his motivations aren't really explained much. I mean, he's flat, but has a character. He just...wants to turn everyone in a zombie and hates humans for...reasons!

Conclusion?

A keeper. But I kinda love him for how utterly insane and over the top he is.

Bullman "Cool. Coolcoolcool." Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
TheMadCr0w Gentle Laborer from Insignificant Little Blue Planet Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
Gentle Laborer
#162211: May 9th 2019 at 10:20:15 AM

[tup] Jeremiah, Primary and Yurr

Edited by TheMadCr0w on May 9th 2019 at 2:20:24 PM

Libraryseraph Showtime! from Canada (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
Showtime!
#162212: May 9th 2019 at 10:24:11 AM

[tup] to Yurr. Please work “Mad Scientist eurotrash psycho“ into his writeup somehow

Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom from tall grass (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#162213: May 9th 2019 at 10:24:13 AM

[tup] Newt Gingrich.

Edited by SkyCat32 on May 9th 2019 at 1:31:45 PM

Rawr.
PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#162214: May 9th 2019 at 10:41:53 AM

You guys are doing well, but I have news about Sektor: I think he counts as a CM. Not in the original timeline because his programming got corrupted, but in the new one? Yeesh.

The only reason I don't EP him now is because I haven't got first hand knowledge of the comics, but according to the wiki he ends up cloning people to use as cyborgs, the clones being completely subservient to Sektor even without slaving protocols. He also murdered his father to take over the Lin Kuei and murdered everyone who resisted being made into cyborgs.

I think we have enough with just the games as well and that Frost EP doesn't sell Sektor nearly high enough. He's a vile bastard through and through, cyborg or no.

Bullman "Cool. Coolcoolcool." Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
#162216: May 9th 2019 at 11:32:57 AM

[up][up] I would be more than willing to hear an argument for Sektor.

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#162217: May 9th 2019 at 11:33:13 AM

I'll read Yurr later, but Polar, if you think he counts, go for it. I'd not be at ALL surprised if there's a CM besides Kronika and the big four.

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
NTG Since: Aug, 2014
#162218: May 9th 2019 at 11:41:53 AM

[up][up][up][up]Luckily the part with Sektor was a stand-alone story that took place after the main story of the comic was over. So whoever wants to do an EP, only has to read the last comic and can skip the rest.

That said, I heard it’s not a bad comic.

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#162219: May 9th 2019 at 12:05:25 PM

[tup] Yurr, Jeremiah and Primary

[tdown] Snow Queen

PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#162222: May 9th 2019 at 12:29:17 PM

Mankar Cameron's character page:

  • Even Evil Has Loved Ones: Implied. He has two children in the Mythic Dawn and they are the only ones other than him that aren't being tortured.

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom from tall grass (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#162223: May 9th 2019 at 12:30:22 PM

[up][up][up]While we're at it, has the Hamburglar been discussed yet? In all seriousness, there don't seem to be any candidates in advertising.

[down]Bob the Builder, perhaps?

Edited by SkyCat32 on May 9th 2019 at 3:54:54 PM

Rawr.

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