During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Sorry, meant to do this yesterday, but...
What's the work?
Hellboy from 2019 is a new adaptation of Mike Mignola's famed property Hellboy. For the uninformed? In the 1940s, the Nazis initiate Project Ragna Rock to summon forth a demon. What they get is Anung un Rama, the herald of the apocalypse and still an adorable child. Found by Professor Bruttenholm ('Broom'is how it's pronounced), the demon is taken and raised as his son, to be a warrior against the darkness: Hellboy.
Hellboy ends up in modern day now, bitter and frustrated at everything, as dark forces conspire. See, long ago, there was a war between humans and the fair folk. Their dark queen Nimue was lured into a peace negotiation, betrayed by her own witches, where she was set up by King Arthur and carved up with his magic blade excalibur, the pieces of her locked away for hopefully all time...except now...
Who is Nimue?
The blood queen and a genocidal tyrant. A changeling fae named Gruagach ends up releasing her to get his revenge on Hellboy. Now, in the past? Nimue was bent on exterminating humanity before her defeat and her disposition has not been improved by her return. Centering in on Hellboy as she can tell he's the beast of apocalypse, Nimue uses Gruagach to steadily return to her old power and nigh invincibility. Nimue directs Gruagach to find the other pieces of her body, having the Osiris Club, a group of rather nasty knight templars, massacred.
Upon returning to power Nimue's former coven comes to beg forgiveness. Sparing only one for necessity, Nimue horrifically kills the others by crushing their bodies via blood magic. Powers restored? She unleashes a plague on London to kill many people.Now, the fight takes to St. Paul's Cathedral where Hellboy and team engage with Gruagach...when Nimue arrives to stop Gruagach killing Hellboy.
Gruagach protests and Nimue? Shrinks him into a tiny form before exploding him, whereupon she attempts to corrupt and tempt Hellboy himself, wanting the Beast of the Apocalypse, Anung un Rama to be unleashed on the world, showing him the resting place of Excalibur, where drawing it will unleash the hordes of hell upon the world and judge humanity. Hellboy, of course, is reluctant, so Nimue plays a trump card: revealing Professor Bruttenholm as a captive. Despite Hellboy's desperate pleas, Nimue slices his neck open to let him bleed out in his son's arms. In a rage, Hellboy pulls out Excalibur...transforming himself and kickstarting the apocalpse. In London, the demons from hell emerge and begin a massacre. People are torn apart, skinned, eaten and more in very...graphic and gruesome detail with Nimue plotting to extend this all over the globe until man exists no more.
However, Alice, one of Hellboy's team, channels bruttenholm's spirit who encourages Hellboy and reminds him he believes in his son. Resisting Nimue, Hellboy decapitates her and banishes her demons back to hell. Nimue's severed head frantically shrieks that she will be back, and they will meet in hell, and humaniy will die, and so forth. Hellboy blithely comments to quit while she's 'ahead' and throws her head into hell...with Nimue screaming all the way down to the fire.
Heinousness?
Sets it for the film. She's a genocidal murderer with a gigantic bodycount here. Now, the film is FULL of nasty customers; the Nazis who summoned Hellboy and Baba Yaga who's a child eating murderer....but Nimue has the highest count and she's downright genocidal. Pass.
Mitigating Q Ualities?
Okay, being betrayed didn't do wonders, but Nimue is literally the same person before and after. She was a genocidal psycho before and she still is. Her 'care' for Hellboy is nothing but cool manipulation, designed to push him into being her apocalypse usher, while she cares nothing for The Fair Folk she purports to lead. She betrays and kills Gruagach when he stops being useful and glories in the chaos and bloodshed she brings here.
Conclusion?
An easy keeper.
Yea there
Ultimate Moral Compass
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Nimue. Always wanted Milla Jovovich to play a CM (she has that look, yah know?) and I’m glad she finally has (even if the film’s not so good from what I heard).
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
Sure to Nimue. Gotta love sum female CMs on the list 
Also, I like the new header for the Fanworks page.
Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Apr 26th 2019 at 10:15:33 PM
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Nimue. I've been waiting for this one and it kinda feels anti climatic now that I cast the vote.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Well, if Nimue was the same person before, easy yes. Evil Is Sexy indeed
◊. Also, she was partially defeated by someone named Alice? Heh.
So now that we've got 8 Hellboy examples (both versions of Nimue; Erzsebet; the 5 novel keepers), anyone object to giving the franchise its own page? Especially as there may be some CMs we haven't discovered yet. Erzsebet's image can be the page image; I'm sure there's a good quote somewhere.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
"The Juice is Loose."
Yes to Nimue.
I like the proposed new header for the Fan Works page.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Wild Child
Nimue.
Oh, and Scraggle will do the writeup. That said, Supernatural? With no spoilers for the finale, we have no need to discuss or reevaluate Lucifer. His 'return' may continue in Season 15 (the final one), but all he does is show back up briefly and get chucked back into oblivion due to his former vessel trying to return him to life. Luce may return in the finale, who knows, but as of now, there's someone else to discuss: his big bro.
Who is Michael?
As is revealed, Supernatural takes place in a multiverse with numerous parallel dimensions. In this one? Michael was the first archangel created by god, the elder brother of Lucifer, and the strongest of all of them...when Lucifer rebelled, things proceded as normal except Sam and Dean, the destined vessels of Lucifer and Michael were never born....and when Lucifer rose again, the pocalypse began, heaven and hell's fighting devastated the world. Michael killed Lucifer at last, expecting his Father to return and give him answers...but god was silent. Michael grew dissatisfied with his father and became enraged, deciding to lash out. He formed a dictatorship over earth, deciding that genocide was the answer for the 'lower' beings.
Michael became as God to the 'Apocalypse World' and not a benevolent one: he began to 'cleanse' it of humanity, massacring them, torturing them, tyrannizing them and worse, when Lucifer and Mary Winchester were dumped into this world. Michael caught Lucifer and tortured him to harvest his power, deciding to invade Lucifer's world and burn it to ashes, later torturing Mary as well, trying to exterminate all remaining humans.
Now, things culminate in the heroes evacuating the humans, when Michael arrives to slaughter them all. Lucifer, allying with the heroes as an Enemy Mine fights with Michael alongside the archangel Gabriel who steps up to finally do what's right. Gabriel and Michael battle and Michael callously kills his brother, but the humans escape....and Michael teams up with Lucifer to gain access to the world in return for giving Lucifer his Nephilim son Jack.
Things go wrong when Jack proves too powerful to be controlled and Lucifer reneges ont he deal, stealing Jack's power to remake the cosmos. Not wanting the extermination of all existence, Michael makes a bargain with Dean: inhabit his body, let Dean fight with his power and kill Lucifer whereupon Michael departs in peace. Michael dies and when Lucifer is dead, Michael hijacks Dean's body and flees with him.
Now, Michael? Begins trying to find his 'perfect' type of creature. He grows dissatisfied with humans and demons, but vampires? He respects their 'honest hunger.' He captures a bunch of them and begins experimenting on ad killing them, as well as werewolves to 'improve' monsters, planting a bunch of monsters to draw out humans and kill them while supposedly fleeing Dean's body for purposes unknown.
Michael takes a new vessel and goes to Kansas City, planting his monsters, repossesses Dean and attempts to have the city slaughtered while torturing the heroes....and reveals his true plan: Michael is dissatisfied with God seeing each universe as a 'failed draft,' so he intends to slaughter them all. Each and every universe god has made? Michael will massacre it, chasing god all over the cosmos, wiping out his works, and then? "Even God can die," while claiming he'll become the new God of Gods....Michael is finally defeated by being sealed in Dean's mind, but it's temporary. Michael WILL escape, prompting Dean to decide to seal himself away permanently in a coffin magically enchanted to hold an archangel.
Michael manages to later escape and possesses the witch Rowena by threatening her if she doesn't comply with possession, claiming he'll return in a new vessel and kill everyone close to her. In her body, he kills them all anyways. In the ensuing fight, Michael tries to kill Team Free Will, but at the end? Jack, the Nephilim, ends up facing his uncle for good and ejects Michael from Rowena. Burning through his own soul and declaring he is a Winchester and that Michael will hurt nobody else ever again....Jack incinerates Michael and consumes Michael's angelic Grace, burning the evil archangel to nothing for good and all.
heinousness?
Even for Supernatural Michael is bad. Tons of murder, torture, attempting to massacre a city, experimentation, mass murder, attempted omnicide, plotting to exterminate entire planes of existence out of spite? Complements his dear brother's attempted omnicide. Michael pretty much helps define the standard, except for Amara/The Darkness and she's vastly stronger than he is...and even she doesn't have a plan with THIS much bloodshed. Pass.
Mitigating Qualities?
Played with. Michael is upset at being abandoned, but...Michael is just as egotistical and vicious as Lucifer. He handles this by slaughtering countless beings who had nothing to do with it, and he's a sadist beside it. Michael is revealed to have gained a titanic, Jupiter sized ego, believing only he is worthy of being the 'god of gods.' He's also a great practitioner of Fantastic Racism, viewing all other races besides Angels as in need of extermination...and he abandons the angels, too, in addition to being a horrible boss who will happily kill any subordinate sooner than later.
Also, Michael will seemingly hold to his word....except not. He breaks his deal with Dean and breaks his deal with Rowena, showing all he cares about is himself. There's no standard Michael professes to that he won't betray, nothing remotely that holds up to any level of scrutiny. He supposedly hates hypocrites and frauds, but that's because he's an egotist as he is one himself in many ways. He's just a sadistic, arrogant would-be god and tyrant placing himself above all others. Pass.
Conclusion?
And a big, big, big yes.
to Nimue. I'd like to think about possible changes to the Fan Works CM header.
Edited by ImperialMajestyXO on Apr 26th 2019 at 8:44:08 AM
Michael.
to Michael.
Edited by ImperialMajestyXO on Apr 26th 2019 at 8:44:34 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to Michael. Question though: So he changed from "Not wanting the extermination of all existence" to becoming pure Omnicidal Maniac?
Anyway, easy yes regardless, and here's a fine quote for the page:
Castiel: And then what?
Michael: Even God can die.
Showtime!
to Nimue and Michael
Michael and Lucifer? Not So Different after all. It's less "I don't want existence exterminated" and more "I don't want Lucifer to win"
Edited by Lightysnake on Apr 26th 2019 at 8:48:48 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Makes sense. Boy, It's All About Me will have to go somewhere in his entry (his name I think I'll use Straw Nihilist).
Also, no need to wait so long: Here's the page, with the placeholder for Michael already set up (yeah, I had the format all ready to go; it was in my personal "to-do" ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
).
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Awesome 
Edited by ACW on Apr 26th 2019 at 11:51:00 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Also? The Neverkind pic is in progress.
While Lloyd has long since been cut, someone made an unauthorized edit to his entry before that. I PMed the troper to tell them they need to refer to the thread from now on and to please not do it again.
EDIT: This line was added to the end: His final act is to threaten the release of sarin gas and kill thousands of people in Washington, DC.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Apr 26th 2019 at 9:18:14 AM
Nimue and Michael
Someone listed Nimue as a GDV. I guess it was a misuse.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Not having seen the movie, Nimue seems more a Flat Character than GDV.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
Nimue and Michael.
Shin Megami Tensei IV
to Nimue and Alt-Michael.
Ah, you mean the header?
Edited by ACW on Apr 26th 2019 at 11:08:27 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts