During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Showtime!
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to gold and doyle
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to the Kaiserreich duo for heinous standard reasons
Ultimate Moral Compass
Doyle
Just finished Katana ZERO. Damn, what a great game! Highly recommended. PM me for possible CM discussion.
Edited by therealjackieboy on Apr 18th 2019 at 7:35:43 AM
"No running in the halls!"
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
Sure to Doyle but no to Kaiserreich duo.
Wow, I didn't expect that Mr. Gold got an overwhelming support from you guys. Thanks G for nicely bring some points for his inclusion! I'll do his writeup soon enough. On Sunday
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Happy to help. Say are you still planning to EP Sieg?
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
@G-Editor I'm thinking of it. The main issue is not only his last moments but there's also other moments that I tell you in P Ms... Let me try to think of it at a later time after I clearing my to-do list. I'm planning to EP Ymper Trymon from A Color of Magic film (Inb 4 Lighty refutes it cuz being a fan of Discworld and all but let me send a judgement on that)
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Doyle
David Kim
Edited by KazuyaProta on Apr 18th 2019 at 10:44:26 AM
Watch me destroying my country
I'd be surprised if we haven't had that discussion already, considering that he's played by Tim Curry.
Edited by nrjxll on Apr 18th 2019 at 10:45:49 AM
Lizzid people!
So probably one of the most noteworthy film to start off Easter weekend is 2019's Pet Sematary. Liked it more than the 1989 film adaptation, but it shouldn't come as a surprise that no one counts in this version.
So it's been two weeks since Shazam released, which was a ton of fun and yet another example of how good of a job the DCEU has done at course correction. And the villain Dr. Sivana, while nothing like the goofy-looking goblin of a mad scientist he was in the comics, is similarly a great, compelling villain. And a surprisingly evil one too...
But a Complete Monster he is not. He may be a remorseless murderer in the present who is more than happy to try to kill kids in pursuit of the power of Shazam, he's ultimately a pathetic maladjusted manchild shaped by his shitty childhood and quite honestly? Doesn't hit the high heinous standard of the DCEU. I mean, as far as similarly powerful villains go he has to compete with Zod, Ocean Master, and Steppenwolf who all try to commit genocide against humanity (And in Zod and Steppenwolf's case go further beyond that). And even normal humans like Ludendorff, Doctor Poison, and Lex Luthor are behind seriously heinous acts such as the Wonder Woman baddies engaging in war crimes involving chemical weaponry and Luthor bombing the Capitol Building and unleashing the destructive Doomsday. And while Sivana's massacre of an entire board of directors as well as his abusive father and brother is surprisingly brutal and nightmarish? There is so much worse he could do with the power he wields, I feel.
Kylotrope however has stated in PM's that he disagrees and plans to give him an effortpost arguing his case. And while I disagree I'm more than happy to give him a chance to see if he can change people's minds.
I will say this though: while I don't view Sivana as a keeper? The post-credits scene reveals that a major villain in the next movie is a certain genocidal caterpillar already listed as a Complete Monster in the comics... which is to say that I am totally keeping my eye on Mr. Mind and want to reserve the announced Shazam sequel for that purpose.
Edited by FriedWarthog on Apr 18th 2019 at 10:01:40 AM
I concur that Sivana doesn't count. His backstory was way too tragic for me and frankly his older brother had it coming.
Agreed all-around with the breakdown on Sivana. I'm saying there's no need for an EP, either.
I think something good can possibly come of this:
What is the work?
Santa Clarita Diet is a 2017 Netflix series about married realtor couple Sheila and Joel Hammond who find their lives upended when a weird red clam Sheila eats turns her into an undead person who must feed on humans to survive (she considers the word zombie derogatory). Joel helps Sheila to track down criminals, such as local white supremacists to kill so that she never has to feed off anyone who doesn't deserve it. Come Season 3 which aired this year though, the stakes become higher as the two (along with their headstrong teen daughter Abby and her close friend Eric Beamis) deal with a secret society bent on protecting people from the undead, undead that emerge from circumstances and the candidate who has a nefarious purpose all his own.
Who is he and what has he done?
Dobrivoje Poplović is a member of the Serbian consulate who serves as the season's Big Bad. The season opens with him having an undead man abducted and stabbing him in the arm to test that he is indeed undead and then stating his intention to experiment on him now that Poplović knows he's undead (there's the slight implication Poplović tested and tortured others whether they were undead or not to find out if they were undead). To avoid being a living dissection, the undead man breaks free and kills himself. Poplović then decides to have his associate who didn't properly secure the restraints killed and he's never seen again.
Poplović hears of their being undead searched for by the Knights of Serbia in Santa Clarita, California and heads their with two other associates to track them down. When they both yield no results, he tries to suffocate one of them with a plastic bag. Eventually, they capture Ron, an undead asylum patient who knows Sheila and Joel on Poplović's behalf and deciding they've had enough of Poplović's abuse, they have Ron turn them into undead, quit working for Poplović with a note and then proceed to start killing and eating pretty much anybody who they come across (eventually they confront Abby and Eric and Abby kills them both).
At the party for the grand opening of Sheila and Joel's own real estate business, Poplović confronts Joel at gunpoint and believing him to be the undead one, threatens to kill everyone there if he doesn't come with him. Stabbing Joel in the arm while he's restrained, Poplović discovers he's not undead. Right before Sheila arrives and gets impaled to the wall with a spear by Poplović, it's revealed that his plan is to harness the blood of as many undead as he can so he can create an anti-aging cream that he can make a profit off of. He leaves and states his intention to kill Joel before he'll take Sheila back to Serbia.
Ron, Tommy (a former Knight who had a change of heart) and Jean (a sick old woman who Sheila made undead to help her) show up and rescue Sheila and Joel. Rather than take the chance to run, Sheila goes after Poplović who gets the drop on her and threatens to shoot her, having no trouble finding another undead to harness of he has to. However, Joel sneaks up behind Poplović while he's distracted and shoots him in the back of the head with Tommy's crossbow, killing him.
Heinous standard?
The show has a lot of killing. A LOT of killing. The show also has very, very dark humor involving killing, but the things Poplović does are played seriously. The tone changes with his presence and the torturous things he does. The duo who worked for him rack up a reckless body count too indirectly because of his actions (though it's not clear if he's ever aware of it). Regardless, he still shows a willingness to threaten and kill others to get what he wants (he's gonna kill Joel anyway), is indifferent to human life and suffering and planning to abduct and harvest several undead for their blood? It still stands out as pretty awful considering each of Sheila's targets is an Asshole Victim, mostly racist jerks. He makes a couple jokes and there a couple around him, but the threat is still intact regardless. He's certainly the worst villain on the show if not one of the worst. The idea of operating on an undead who will be conscious for it is terrifying enough as it is.
Redeeming qualities? Mitigating factors?
He has no trouble threatening or having his employees killed and on top of that, he's going to harvest several undead people's blood for a cure to aging that he can get rich off of. In short, no.
Verdict?
I'll...give a slight .
Lizzid people!
Agreed that there doesn't need to be an EP.
Edited by AustinDR on Apr 18th 2019 at 10:05:53 AM
To Poplovic
Goku Black
Doyle
Okay since Doyle from Drifter has gotten some upvotes, I'll write the entry. How does this look?
- Drifter (2016 Film): Doyle is the leader of a group of psychotic cannibals that live within a small town in a post-apocalyptic desert. As a boy, Doyle brutally murdered his parents in their sleep as revenge for putting soap in his mouth for swearing and after the apocalypse created a gang by targeting specific individuals and killing their loved ones and abusing them into loyalty. When Miles and his brother Dominic arrived in town, Doyle has his followers bring the two to him and makes the former watch as he kills Dominic with a baseball bat and later punishing his follower Vijah for helping them by biting off her ear and eating it. Doyle also attempts to make Miles into a follower by feeding him his brother's flesh and invites him to dinner where Dominic's head has been mounted on the table to mock him, leading to Miles angrily killing one of his followers who he watches die with little to no reaction and then takes Vijah hostage after killing one of his own. Doyle tries to conduct himself as a polite and charismatic leader, but deep down he is a Psychopathic Manchild who never grew up.
Edited by UltimateDemonBeast65 on Apr 19th 2019 at 6:33:57 PM
Late Doyle
Edited by Enigmatic_Mastermind on Apr 19th 2019 at 2:03:40 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Doyle and Poplovic
Yeah, I ain't feeling Sivana, despite me thinking his FE is a bit weak all things considered. He's just not bad enough.
Poplovic.
Agree that neither Shivina counts nor anyone from Pet Sematary. The closest we get to having a CM in Pet Sematary is probably the villain in the second movie and even then his agency is impaired by Wendigo posession.
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Messenger from another dimension.
Yes to Doyle and Poplovic.
Also, completely concur with Sivana not counting.
Edited by emperors on Apr 19th 2019 at 8:01:57 AM
Welcome to the world of greatest media!
Draft for Prox.
- Halloween: Sins of a Father and Halloween: Aftermath: Dr. Prox from Halloween: Aftermath is a psychologist at Smith's Grove Sanitarium and Dr. Terence Wynn's successor as the head of the Cult of Thorn. Fascinated by Michael Myers' ability to defy death from an early age, Prox became an apprentice of Dr. Wynn and was personally responsible for impregnating numerous women with Michael's seed in order to create a child that was pure evil, resulting in Steven Lloyd when Michael impregnated his niece Jamie. 13 years after the events of Halloween: The Curse of Michael Myers, Prox was called to conduct psychological evaluations on the eighth graders after Michael attacked a field trip. Prox lured Steven and his friends to his house, intending to sacrifice them to Michael and admitting that he'll enjoy watching Steven die. Purely driven by his obsession with understanding Michael, Prox finally attempted to kill Steven by strangling him and managed to incite Michael's wrath by trying to harm his son.
Edited by k410ren on Apr 19th 2019 at 8:41:12 AM
"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
Edited by SkyCat32 on Apr 18th 2019 at 10:08:34 AM
Rawr.