During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Goku Black
Go with A.
They arent Travis & Les Heuter where they share most stuff. Different crimes should get different entries.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Actually, come to think of it, I MAY have a way to do Tarkin. I'll try and do it this weekend.
Lighty, mind giving me something for that Comic? I guess chronologically, it'll go between Vidian and the Queen?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
I mean, to add to the writeup?
- Upon briefing the gunners for the Death Star, Tarkin secretly installs chips in their helmets to see if they will hesitate in their orders. When they do so, Tarkin chastises them for 'weakness,' noting to one Alderaan native he would happily annihilate his own world without a second thought. Coldly dismissing them as weaklings, Tarkin simply ejects them into space.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Bingo. For Tarkin, the Legends stuff is actually fine, but I'll try and split his canon entry; at the very least, his Tarkin; Rogue One; above; and New Hope crimes can probably get their own entries.
Edited by ACW on Apr 16th 2019 at 2:33:45 PM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
Man Tarkin might be in the running for The Sociopath of the star wars franchise.
Such a cold and spiteful man.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
A combined one for Rebels and clone wars can get one too.
Edited by miraculous on Apr 16th 2019 at 11:34:31 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
About that...I know they're the same continuity (because obviously), but how connected are they otherwise? Then again, we DID mention Palpatine's Rebels crimes in his Clone Wars entry. Although, the crimes from Tarkin are in between, so...
Edited by ACW on Apr 16th 2019 at 2:43:00 PM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
Its a direct sequel.
Darth Maul, Ashoka Tano, Rex, Bo-Katan and everal other characters from the clone wars era have there stories contuined here.
Heck we even get to see how Ashoka would react to her master Anakin falling to the darkside and beoming darth vader.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Actually, I'm thinking something like this for a split (I'll work on the order later):
- Header (include Clone Wars crimes)
- Tarkin & Rebels crimes
- Rogue One
- A New Hope
- The comic (Lighty's new entry)
- Legends entry is fine
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Yeah, that's gonna be at the header.
Edited by ACW on Apr 16th 2019 at 2:59:57 PM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
Maybe also do a gneral entry as well like how palpatine has that goes in gneral since hes second after him in terms of far reaching cm's
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
The Draftsman of Doom
I have a two more images of The Joker from Batman: A Death in the Family: [1]
◊ [2]
◊
The one that's already there is this one
◊, third in the order.
Also, this image link for Carnage is not working
◊, and as thus, unfortunately requires replacement.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Apr 16th 2019 at 3:16:48 PM
Your friendly neighbourhood Spider-Man.
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to Pavel; ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone else.
While executing the gunners for slightly hesitating before blowing up a planet is absolutely not redeeming, the comic implies a freudian excuse by showing Tarkin as a kid being forced to fight for his life by his abusive uncle.
But then I suppose he's still a CM?
hell to the yes. Tarkin's coldness and ruthlessness is well divorced from that.
Edited by Lightysnake on Apr 16th 2019 at 12:22:25 PM
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
Unless I'm mistaken. It was stated earlier that Tarkin EMBRACED the Hunt and fighting at the first Opportunity with no Hesitation. Or am I misremembering?
Edited by Kylotrope on Apr 16th 2019 at 12:29:34 PM
Things are really about to get Fun around here
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I'll let Lighty comment further, but I'm not inclined to see that as mitigating.
The Legends character page of him has several odd things though:
- Despair Event Horizon: His son being killed resulted in him becoming even more of a monster than before.
- Even Evil Has Standards: The reason why Palpatine orchestrated his son's "defection" and later death was because he wanted Tarkin to become a more willing servant, implying that there was stuff Palpatine demanded that even Tarkin did not wish to commit.
- Papa Wolf: In "Darth Vader and the Lost Command 5", the results of Darth Vader's mission resulted in Tarkin wanting to commit genocide against the natives of Altoa because he thought they murdered his son, and it is also heavily implied in the ending that Palpatine manipulated Vader's actions to bring this about to get Tarkin to become a more willing (and more ruthless) servant. It worked.
- Pet the Dog: A minor one: he was Gial Ackbar's master when the former was a slave, and it's implied that he treated him pretty decently.
Do any Legends works contradict each other? If so, we can just use Depending on the Author.
Edited by ACW on Apr 16th 2019 at 3:24:11 PM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
to Goss.
Go for A.
I'm not too familiar with the EU.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I think @Very Vile Villian was the one who did the Carnage image. Any other links for it?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
No, nothing really holds up. The fact is? Tarkin is a ruthless sociopath. He's always been a ruthless sociopath. That's the core of his character.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Well, okay then. Works for me ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
The Draftsman of Doom
I do not know about any other links for Carnage, sorry. What do you think about the other proposed Joker images? I suggested the order due to them happening in that order in the comic.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Apr 16th 2019 at 3:39:47 PM
Your friendly neighbourhood Spider-Man.
Goku Black
Next jennifer estep ep.
So whats the work?
Mythos Academy is a teen fantasy adventure/romance series by Jennifer Estep. The books in the series are:
The books are about Gwendolyn Frost, a seventeen year old girl whose gypsy heritage has granted her psychometric powers, the ability to read the history of anything - or anyone she touches. One day, she borrows a friend's hairbrush and learns that her friend's stepfather had been sexually abusing her. Once she recovers from the trauma sufficiently to be coherent, she tells what she saw to her mother, a police officer. Her mother investigates, finds enough legally admissible evidence to get a warrant, puts the man behind bars... and is killed by a drunk driver on her way home.
While still recovering from her mother's death and her inadvertent role in it, her grandmother has her transferred to Mythos Academy, a school where everybody has some sort of magical power. In addition to all the regular classes, she now also has to deal with unusual ones, like mythological history or gym classes where the teacher is more interested in instructing about swordsmanship than sportsmanship. Gwen tries to deal with her classes and her mourning while doing her best to ignore all the stuff about the evil god Loki and his Reapers of Chaos, when a series of events forces her to realize something rather unexpected.
None of the stuff covered in Myth-History is fictional.
Loki is real, and the Reapers are on the verge of freeing him from the prison the other Gods sealed him into at the end of the Chaos War.
And Gwen is the latest hereditary Champion of the Goddess Nike, who had defeated Loki in the final battle of that war.
So who is the villain and what has he done?
Loki is the Norse God of trickery, lies and chaos. Thousands of years ago, he murdered his fellow diety Baldur simply for amusement. This act was considered a horrific taboo by the various other diesties who punished loki by having him trapped in a prison dimesnion where a giant snake would drip venom in his eyes. The only person who tried to ease his pain is his wife Sigyn who would collect the pain he had by dripping the venom into a bowl before it touched his face, burning her hands in the process. Loki though was an Ungrateful Bastard and maniplauted her into freeing him by playing on her feelings. After she freed him, he set about building an army known as "Reapers of chaos". The reapers and him set about getting revenge on the various Gods and having them slaughtered, decimating and enslaving all of humanity as well, in his war hundreds of thousands of inncoents died. Eventually the greek goddess of victory Nike defeated him. She couldnt kill him directly since after Baldur's death, the various dieties had made a pact that none of them could directly kill another god. So she instead sealed him away in a prison dimension.
The reapers of choas have spent centuries trying to free him to bring about the age of chaos, something that would kill countless, countless people. From his prison diemesion, he watches and is able to flow power into them, guididng them from afar to free him and kill his enemies, every murder they commit helps to lossen there chains, there deaths themslves cuases some unwinding. They commit murder and Human Sarcfice to empower him, a sytem which has run for centuris. The reapers also have been known to murder the children of the gaurdians (emissaries of the other gods), having five year olds slaughtered in there beds.
Another of his more vile acts is how he created his army of monsters which the reapers of chaos use in battle. He had them which includes desendants of his son Fenris in the fenris wolves drugged using a toxic compund to keep them in line. The drug is fatal if not adminstered constantly and will eventually kill its users after awihle anyway.
Anyway skipping some stuff from the first two books where he doesnt appear. His champion Vivian eventually uses the dagger of helheliem and blood from heroine gwen frost (Nike's champion) in order to break the seal that binds him. He then orders her to kill an captured Gwen frost. Luckily hes still super weak (Darklord On Life Support is in full effect here), so has to flee to recuparate. Wanting to re-empower himself to begin his apoclypse. He sets about a plan.
In the next book, Crimson Frost, Loki along with Vivian tries to have Gwen framed and executed as part of a plan to get her out of the picture. They inetnd to murder the entire academy during a concert thats been held there (Hundreds of people) as part of his spell. This spell will be used to bodyjack Gwen's Love Interest Logan. Transferring his soul into his, throughly destroying his in the process and allowing him to begin his choas war. Since hes a dick as the cermoy is going on and he fights Gwen, he keeps Logan awarre of and unable to do anything as he sees his own hands try and murder his ebloved as well possibly force gwen to kill him. All because he HATES Nike and how her champions like the frost family constantly foil him for being an evil scumbag. Gwen sabotages this by using her pyshcometry powers to stop the ritual and eject his soul back into his body and reach into logans mind and bring him back.
Changing tactics, he has his reapers try to get the candle of sol which would heal his injuries and get him back to full stregth, threathining murder on them (Vivian and reaper leader Agronna Quinn if they fail) which uh also doesnt go well.
Vivian ducked her head, as though she was ashamed. Agrona plastered a smile on her face. “Yes, my lord. Vivian can finally do that now. How wonderful of you
to point that out to all of us—”
He turned to her. “And you weren’t any better, with all of your pitiful attempts to kill the mother and grandmother. You never revealed your true self to them, and yet you still never managed to kill them, either one of them. Not to mention what a catastrophe the soul ritual with the Spartan boy turned out to be. A ritual that I am still suffering the effects of, thanks to you.”
Now, Agrona looked as chagrined—and frightened— as Vivian. And the rest of the Reapers didn’t look any more certain—or brave. Perhaps Loki had been a harsher, more ruthless master than they’d ever dreamed he would be. It would serve them right if he wanted to kill and enslave all of them too.
In the final book, 'Killer frost, he kindaps Gwen's elderly grandmother inetdning to kill her if she doesnt give him the candle. Gwen knows he doesnt intend to honour that and that after being healed he plans to kill all the various dieties, gurdains and millions of people in collateral. So she posions the candle with leaves from the laurels of the goddes Eir which can either kill anything even a God. Well she gives it to him and he lughts it. Cackling with an laughter as his power seemingly rertruns and getting ready to murder them all and begin his evil quest. Oh no has the spell failed.....Nah. At this point he actually burns the laurel leaves and finds his powers permantly and mostly crippled. Hes able to take it away before it fully kills him but takes away most of his powers. Gwen escapes with her friends. Enraged, he goes in a rampage and has his forces attack the academy despite the fact he might actually die if he loses (hes still got some amount of power left which is enough to put him above everyone). After Gwen disables and destroys the mind of his champion Vivian and Logan kills Agronna he alughs it off. He and Gwen duel for real. Before he decides that she would make a much netter host body for him to start his rampage and bring himslef. He highjacks her body, Gwen though realises everything shes been thought. The ideas of free will and self-sacrfice and realises that Loki's just rasnferred himself into her body. Her mortal, Killable'' body. She takes control and stabs both of them. Finshing it.
I laughed again.
“That’s where you’re wrong,” I said. “That’s where you’ve always been wrong. This whole time. All these centuries. You can’t stop me. You can’t stop me from doing one single thing, especially not this.”
“And why is that?” he hissed.
I smiled, even though he couldn’t see me. “Free will.” Then, I rammed my sword's point into my heart as hard as I could.
Anyway in Heaven (?), the afterlife. Loki's spirirt is bound as gwen watches into an eternal statue. A mutual decison was made among all of them to leave and go into statis forever (twilight of the gods) but before that they needed there most dangerous member captured. They beind him with mistltoe, what he used to kill Baldur. Forver a statue for eternity now, along with the rest. Anyway Gwen gets healed and brought to life if your curious.
Nah. He was an evil prick before he ended up with the snake and well his desire for venagnce comes from being trapped there. He plans to toss the entire of humanity down with him who had nothing to do with what happened to him. Plus he actually did do what there punshing him for. While being an Ungrateful Bastard who takes advantges of his duitful wife and has zero care for her or the other reapers. Nothing is played for sympahty. Its a shitty thig that happened to a shitty guy.
Other redeeming qualities?
The series emphasises free will. He choses to be like this and could be good. This isnt his pre-ordained divine nature.
He doesnt love his wife. Views her as tool and is highly dickish to her. Is a shitty boss to the reapers despite them spedning centuries trying to free him and is an all around asshole.
So pass.
Heinous standard?
The worst. Hundreds of thousnds of deaths in his first chaos war. He founded a system of human sacrcice and murder which invloves children and has kept it going for centuries. Tries to kill hundreds of people to empower himself, so he can kill millions more.
Plus the stunt he pulls with Gwen;s Love Interest was damn petty and evil.
Easy pass.
Conclusion
I belive hes an easy yes. What do you think/
Edited by miraculous on Apr 16th 2019 at 12:41:16 PM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
And a big yes
The issue with Darth Plagueis is that it encompasses a lot that's established in other books, comics, etc. I'm not opposed to mentioning it, but let's face it...Palpatine is a character who, almost every time he appears, ends up with a brand new irredeemable crime.