During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Whisper seems like a ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Goku Black
Whisper
Yeesh....even by normal Batman standards he sounds fucked up.
Edited by miraculous on Nov 15th 2018 at 1:22:52 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Haven’t read that comic, but to Whisper.
Good find. Yea
V
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
to whisper
To The Wisper
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
BTW, seems like Whisper (debuted in April 1990) will go before Abattoir (January 1991).
Speaking of the latter, as the one who effortposted and wrote up Abattoir, I give permission for anyone to try and trim it if they want; while heinous, I'm not sure that he appears often enough for such a lengthy writeup. I mean, it's only 19 words shorter than Judge Death's entry, and the latter has been around for nearly 40 years. Abattoir appeared in...five issues (plus a couple more as a spirit, and a few more as a Black Lantern; shit, should I read those issues too? I just used his actions as a human).
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Wild Child
Mister Whisper.
Lizzid people!
Mr. Whisper
Whisper.
Edited by Beast on Nov 15th 2018 at 3:55:59 AM
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
First new one now:
What's the work?
Joe Hunter is a series by Matt Hilton. A former counterterrorism agent, Joe spends his time helping people with conspiracies, bad guys and more. The first book, Dead Man's Harvest introduces one major bad guy we'll be discussing: Tubal Cain.
Who is Tubal Cain?
Cain, giving himself the name about the biblical villain, Tubal Cain...AKA "The father of sharp objects", as he puts it. A former government operative as well who puts his skills to use in the worst way. Cain murdered his own family to begin his career as a Serial Killer known as the Harvestman, who murders people with knives and collects their bones, keeping a hidden cave where he decorates with them...and he has a lot. Cain eventually ambushes an elderly couple in an RV, gruesomely carves up the old man, taking some of his bones and then promptly learns the old woman has arthritis and osteoporosis...so he takes off his shoe and beats her to death with the heel, before having their RV explode in an 'accident' to cover his crime. After this, he ends up mugged by one John Telfer, the half-brother of Joe Hilton and has his car stolen, and his favorite knife swiped. Enraged, Cain decides to hunt him down...first locating a couple in another RV (a young man and a woman there), and murdering them both just to get some supplies and have a hot shower. He begins to track down John, carving through innocent people along the way. Finally getting the better of John, John tries to buy time by revealing an illegal deal he has going with money plates...and Cain needs him alive for it.
Thanks to taking Cain's car, the cops are slowly starting to believe John is the Harvestman and are locating him, prompting Joe to attempt to find his brother. Unfortunately there are...issues as to working with a sadistic psychopath and Cain continues leaving a bodycount, at one point killing a few people, later finding a good samaritan with a dog who thinks he's injured. He kills the dog, then murders the man as well for his bones. Things lead to a head as Joe ends up tracking them down to Cain's lair. At the end, Cain badly messes John up in a fight, ending in a battle with Joe and Cain that climaxes in Joe stabbing him in the throat with one of his trophy bones. Cain is left for dead...but is secretly alive, taken by the authorities and put in prison.
In the last book to date Dead Man;s Harvest, Joe's enemies end up banding together, one working with Cain who wants revenge on John and Joe (he doesn't know John is dead from the injuries he gave him)...Cain is broken from prison and begins killing more people, eventually kidnapping John's ex wife Jen, and her kids to lure in Joe and John...at one point he kills a man for no reason, and tortures Jen by sawing off her finger after teasing her it's her or the kids, while planning to kill them anyways. The book climaxes in a fight on a ship where Joe and Cain end up in a fight...Joe manages to pull a gun and shoots Cain a few times nonfatally...just before he shoots him between the eyes, throwing him off the ship into the water.
Heinousness?
Pretty nasty customers all around, but Cain? Cain is nasty as you get. He's a serial killer with a huge body count, much of it shown and an unmistakable sense of brutal sadism to him. Nothing good about him here.
Mitigating Qualities?
Zip. Cain is a smug, arrogant son of a bitch who loves carving other people to ribbons...he does have one moment where he snidely thinks he'd sooner drive into a group of sunday school kids than carve up a rabbit, having no desire to butcher anyone 'but his own kind'...this is rendered questionable when he casually murders a dog just so he can commit a murder easier with no remorse. Guy's just a sicko who prefers the fun of murdering and 'collecting,' and he shows that frequently.
Conclusion?
I'd say an easy keeper.
Cain.
Just waiting for the theatre to open.
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
"The Juice is Loose."
Goku Black
Cain
I swear I've heard of a Tubal Cain on this site before well browising articles. Can't remember where.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
Kain
Gentle Laborer
to Cain and even though I haven’t read any of those books, he sounds plenty nasty just based solely on the EP.
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
to Cain.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Cain, though a few things:
Dead Men's Dust was the first one, and Dead Man's Harvest, while a separate one, wasn't the last one to date; there have been four more.
Whisper and Cain
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
And let me try and trim Abattoir:
- Abattoir, real name Arnold Etkar, born Arnold Etchison, is a psychotic Serial Killer who mainly targets family members, believing them to be evil, and believes he will eat their souls. By the time of his first appearance, he has already killed 19 family members. In his second appearance, as part of a ritual he believes will grant him great power, Abattoir and associates blow up the Gotham Bridge as a train is crossing, which would have killed thousands. Despite being captured yet again, Abattoir is one of the residents of Arkham Asylum who are broken out by Bane. After killing a family, he goes after his cousin Graham, hijacking a bus Graham and 12 orphans are on, planning to kill them all. Batman saves them, but Abattoir escapes, kidnapping the child of Clayface III and Lady Clayface to force them to help him. Abattoir eventually kidnaps Graham, and places him in a sadistic Death Trap: Graham is placed lightly over a bed of spikes, but every hour a weight drops on Graham's body, pushing him farther onto the spikes. Abattoir is found by Jean-Paul Valley (as Batman), but left to die, in turn leaving Graham to suffer an agonizing, hours-long Cruel and Unusual Death.
There. Trimmed by over 60 words.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Expanding Goth.
- Goth (2003): Goth is a zealot who believes that the “true" goth lifestyle involves committing random acts of violence fur fun. She kidnaps a young couple, Crissy and Boone, to teach them her ways. She commits various atrocities, such as raping a man, forcing Boone to cheat on Crissy under pain of mutilation and torturing an old man. She eventually drugs Crissy and tricking her into killing Boone and everybody at a party, succeeding in her goal in making Crissy just like her.
Cain and Whisper.
Yes to Mr. Whisper.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread