During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
V
Abstaining on Ares
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Ares
He might be Sudeikis' second cm
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Oscar in Colossal
Edited by Silverblade2 on Sep 21st 2018 at 4:06:58 PM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Who was the first?
Ah, thanks Lighty. So, this then:
- Battle Beast's self-titled album and Beast In Black's Berserker (especially "The Fifth Angel"): Griffith, the mercenary captain leading the Band of the Hawk, is a narcissistic, coldly ambitious sociopath with a cruel demeanor. Expressing his egotistical views and cold ambition, he betrays his mercenary comrades without a second thought, allows them to all die in a monstrous manner, and, with glee, rapes Guts's beloved Casca just to spite the two.
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
Sure on Ares
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to Ares. I'd say letting Rice go MIGHT be disqualifying...if not for the fact he later killed Rice. I guess he'll go to Other Media under Animation?
Edited by ACW on Sep 21st 2018 at 10:18:34 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Lizzid people!
Alright, so The Nun is the latest prequel in the Conjurverse starring our favorite Demon Nun, Valak. The film does provide Valak with more characterization than I gave it credit for.
In the film, the monastery Valak haunts — the Cârța Monastery— was built by a duke hundreds of years ago. Growing obsessed with the dark arts, the duke tries to summon an evil force in the catacombs of the monastery only to then be killed by (I assume) the Vatican who then seal the rift with the Blood of Christ. This obviously doesn't last because heavy bombing in WWII reopened the rift.
Valak took the form of a nun to blend in with the other nuns. These nuns continually prayed to combat the evil, but Valak had slain countless nuns over the years. This leads to one nun, Sister Victoria, to commit suicide as to prevent Valak from getting a vessel.
Father Burke and nun-in-training Sister Irene are sent to investigate the suicide, and naturally, sll hell breaks lose. Valak takes the form of a young boy who died in a botched exorcism to torment Burke before burying him alive; in a big twist, none of the nuns in the abbey were real, implied to be the ghosts of all the nuns Valak had killed, as a scheme of weakening Irene enough to then take her body. The catacombs flood and Valak tries to sadistically drown Irene only to get doused in the Blood of Christ. But of course, evil is never truly defeated, because Valak had placed an inverse cross on the back of French-Canadian guide Frenchie...who is subsequently revealed to be Maurice from the original film, thus explaining what Valak's beef with the Warrens were in Conjuring II.
That would imply adding onto the original entry. I'm notvreally planning on that because not only would it bloat the entry, but I also feel the original sets the idea across well. Maybe something like this:
- The Nun chronologically marks the origin story of the Demon Nun, Valak. See this page for more information.
Edited by AustinDR on Sep 21st 2018 at 7:58:48 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
So, anything worth adding to the writeup?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Lizzid people!
I would say no.
V
I do think that we should add a mention of Valak in The Nun however. Maybe like a link to the film it counts.
- Complete Monster: Valak counts again. See that page to see why.
Yes to Ares
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Though let me fix the tree a bit:
- The Conjuring Universe
- The Conjuring: Bathsheba is a truly vile ghost. While most ghosts are benevolent, or simply sad beings, Bathsheba is a sadistic Satanist who, having tried and failed to sacrifice her own newborn son before her suicide, shows her devotion to Satan by possessing mothers to murder their own children before forcing their own suicides. Bathsheba torments the most recent family to inhabit her lands until the paranormal Investigators Ed and Lorraine Warren arrive. When Bathsheba's attempts to drive them off fail, she heads to their house and frees Annabelle, a demon trapped in a doll, so the two can murder the Warrens's young daughter. When she succeeds in distracting them, Bathsheba possesses the original family's mother to try to murder her own children and tries to drag the mother to death with her while being exorcised.
- The Conjuring II: Valak, the Big Bad, is a demonic entity who sticks out to the Warrens as one of the most wicked beings they have ever encountered. The perpetrator of the Amityville massacre, an event that entailed Valak possessing a young man to slaughter his entire family of six, most of whom were children, Valak mentally assaulted Lorraine Warren when she tried to investigate the killings, and continued to haunt her for months afterward. Beginning to haunt the Hodgson family for its own amusement, Valak took control of the spirit of an innocent man, refusing to let him move on into the afterlife, and forces him to terrorize the Hodgsons. After trying numerous times to kill various members of the Hodgson family, Valak tries to force the youngest girl, Janet, to impale herself in front of her entire family, then tries to force Lorraine to watch as it attempts the same on her husband.
I'd personaly add a sentence or two about how he slaughters a coven or tries to bury someone alive.
Edited by Silverblade2 on Sep 21st 2018 at 4:57:15 PM
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
Btw, on another note...The SAO+Anohana hybrid, Shichisei No Subaru, just ended today and I reserved it. PM me on the person who counts or not
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Not sure of the best place. I've added the rewrite to the top of the Drafts, so feel free to play with it.
Lizzid people!
- The Conjuring II: Valak, the Big Bad, is a demonic entity who sticks out to the Warrens as one of the most wicked beings they have ever encountered. Having slaughtered a coven of nuns in its origin film and subsequently trying to bury a priest alive, Valak later became the perpetrator of the Amityville massacre, an event that entailed Valak possessing a young man to slaughter his entire family of six, most of whom were children. Valak mentally assaulted Lorraine Warren when she tried to investigate the killings, and continued to haunt her for months afterward. Beginning to haunt the Hodgson family for its own amusement, Valak took control of the spirit of an innocent man, refusing to let him move on into the afterlife, and forces him to terrorize the Hodgsons. After trying numerous times to kill various members of the Hodgson family, Valak tries to force the youngest girl, Janet, to impale herself in front of her entire family, then tries to force Lorraine to watch as it attempts the same on her husband.
How's this?
Yeah, I think doubts on Valak have been largely dispelled. Killing all the nuns in the abbey works pretty solidly to its favor and it actually has dialogue.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
That works. Here it is all potholed up:
- The Conjuring II: Valak is a demonic entity who sticks out to the Warrens as one of the most wicked beings they have ever encountered. Having slaughtered a coven of nuns in its origin film and subsequently trying to bury a priest alive, Valak later became the perpetrator of the Amityville massacre, an event that entailed Valak possessing a young man to slaughter his entire family of six, most of whom were children. Valak mentally assaulted Lorraine Warren when she tried to investigate the killings, and continued to haunt her for months afterward. Beginning to haunt the Hodgson family for its own amusement, Valak took control of the spirit of an innocent man, refusing to let him move on into the afterlife, and forces him to terrorize the Hodgsons. After trying numerous times to kill various members of the Hodgson family, Valak tries to force the youngest girl, Janet, to impale herself in front of her entire family, then tries to force Lorraine to watch as it attempts the same on her husband.
Edited by ACW on Sep 21st 2018 at 11:14:18 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
A 'coven' of nuns? I think 'after killing every nun in the St. Carta abbey' would work better.
However, we need to take the Amityville part out. Word of God confirmed Valak had nothing to do with that and just chose the spot to appear to Lorraine
Edited by Lightysnake on Sep 21st 2018 at 8:12:19 AM
Lizzid people!
Well, that's interesting. One more revision:
- The Conjuring II: Valak is a demonic entity who sticks out to the Warrens as one of the most wicked beings they have ever encountered. Having slaughtered multiple nuns in the St. Carta abbey in its origin film and subsequently trying to bury a priest alive, Valak mentally assaulted Lorraine Warren out of revenge for being exorcised from Maurice, and continued to haunt her for months afterward. Beginning to haunt the Hodgson family for its own amusement, Valak took control of the spirit of an innocent man, refusing to let him move on into the afterlife, and forces him to terrorize the Hodgsons. After trying numerous times to kill various members of the Hodgson family, Valak tries to force the youngest girl, Janet, to impale herself in front of her entire family, then tries to force Lorraine to watch as it attempts the same on her husband.
Edited by AustinDR on Sep 21st 2018 at 8:19:47 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
And potholed:
- Complete Monster: Valak is a demonic entity who sticks out to the Warrens as one of the most wicked beings they have ever encountered. Having slaughtered multiple nuns in the St. Carta abbey in its origin film and subsequently trying to bury a priest alive, Valak mentally assaulted Lorraine Warren out of revenge for being exorcised from Maurice, and continued to haunt her for months afterward. Beginning to haunt the Hodgson family for its own amusement, Valak took control of the spirit of an innocent man, refusing to let him move on into the afterlife, and forces him to terrorize the Hodgsons. After trying numerous times to kill various members of the Hodgson family, Valak tries to force the youngest girl, Janet, to impale herself in front of her entire family, then tries to force Lorraine to watch as it attempts the same on her husband.
Edited by ACW on Sep 21st 2018 at 11:28:45 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Yes to Kiyoshi Kakura and Ares.
Goku Black
Ares
Abstaining on Ares.