During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Yes, please stop with the pictures and the quotes and stuff so much. It's not important.
Yea to the falk example.
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
Sorry....I'll stop now. Just trying to do something to contribute actually but yeah :/
edited 20th Apr '18 7:16:27 PM by ElfenLiedFan90
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
I'll say yes to to Lehman, by the way.
Ultimate Moral Compass
Any more thoughts on my effortpost for Toutaku from the previous page?
"No running in the halls!"
Yea to Toutaku
I'll say yes to Toukatu as well.
V
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Tou.
Well, 6 and 0 ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
. Writeup's in the drafts, feel free to edit.
Lehmen.
I figure Meghren's got enough votes, so if no one objects.
- The Stolen Throne: King Meghren is the tyrannical cousin (and rumoured incesteous lover) of the Orlesian Emperor, exiled for offending said cousin to rule Ferelden in his stead. Despising Ferelden and its people, viewing them as "uncultured dogs", Meghren vents his hatred out by tormenting his people, mostly through torture parties or mass executions and vehemently refusing to make any sort of appeal to them. Notable examples include, intimidating a young noble over a birthday present just to get a kick out of his fear, and at another point beating a servant boy to an inch of his life. Despite all this, he expects the people of Ferelden to cater to him and is offended when they ask anything of him, or rebel against him. When a rebellion by Queen Moria rises against him, Meghren has her decpitated with her head impaled on a spike - a frequent punishment of his - and resolves to hunt down and eventually kill her son Maric. This war results in high casualties on both sides, with Meghren frequently asking for Orlesian support, only to carelessly send his men to their deaths. When he believes Maric has been killed, only to learn of his survival, as the majority of Ferelden rise or turn against him, he flies into a rage ordering the mass execution of anyone and everyone who sympathizes with the rebels.
You wanna know something funny ? It occured to me that in the five years I have been on this thread, this is the first time I brought up a character from literature. Properly at least.
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I know the feeling. Over three-hundred candidates I've gotten up and I only have like three from a proper live-action series. One of which was from a miniseries.
IKR I mean I remember when I first joined the thread, and I kept asking "what about this villain ?" Or "that villain ?" But I don't count those as those are not proper effortposts. I remember one of the first characters I suggested was Chris and Billy from Carrie. I don't know if I should feel nostalgic or I Hate Past Me about it...
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
lehmen
I remember the many many candidates I effortposted, and yet one comic book candidate and one western animation candidate, William Stoughton and Mr. Bedlam respectively.
edited 21st Apr '18 2:19:57 AM by G-Editor
So I was just talking this over by Scraggle and we're a little confused as to how Stagger Lee even counts. I understand there was an argument that because he was from a song the heinous standard is lower somehow(?) How low? He kills two people and makes someone suck his dick, the writeup also includes mocking the woman who caught him killing the bartender like that bit of Jerkassery even warrants attention. He's even absolutely demolished by the album's other candidate, Lottie, in terms of heinousness. That I can excuse as they aren't necessarily in the same universe but two murders and a rape is nowhere near enough to cross even baseline imo.
This whole "lowered standard" thing is becoming a bit of a concern for me. Some people were arguing to keep the Wonderland dream despite the thing barely even being a character, again because of the medium. We've really gotta follow baselines and not start scamping so we don't end up letting characters just jump on this trope despite hardly even doing anything just because of their media/work of origin.
edited 21st Apr '18 1:28:17 AM by 43110
I've really never believed Stagger Lee's rather measly rapsheet was ever enough to bring him onto the trope. The excuse that he has less time to act in the confines of a five-minute song falls apart when you consider almost every other villain that counts off of the basis of one song in Other Media — including Lottie herself — pretty much all demonstrate you can write a character with even viler atrocities in similar time.
edited 20th Apr '18 11:45:28 PM by Scraggle
Goku Black
Lehman.
Call me... Del Noir...
@Scraggle and 43110 I've been listening to that Nick Cave album, and I felt the exact same way about Stagger Lee. He's a dick, but he's absolutely trounced by Lottie.
"Now I have a machine gun. Ho ho ho."
Today some time I will try and do an effort post on a candidate I found. It's gonna be a long one, so I may or may not have to save a draft for the effort post to my message box and finish it another time given how slowly I type and how lazy I am.
By the way, has anyone seen the animated shows based off of Street Fighter an Mortal Kombat? I was thinking of seeing if the animated versions of Bison and Khan count.
jjj
. Lehman
Goku Black
I don't think either has been discussed.
Though since we're on the subject has the versions of Shao Khan , Quan Chi and Shang Tsung from Mortal Kombat: Legacy ever been discussed and if not, okay if I look into it.
edited 21st Apr '18 2:56:32 AM by miraculous
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Speaking of quotes (sorry), which of these do we want for the Gundam page?
Joffrey-wannabe; Toe-Taco; Lehman.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
2nd Djibril quote, or second quote overall?
And requested.
edited 21st Apr '18 4:28:58 AM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
Second quote. The majority including me do want the second quote. I think after this we can rn take a rest for the quotes
Alright, back into the thread..... May I take a rewrite of one of my candidates by the by. I wont change it that much but there are some of the uneccessary sentences that I would like to omit. And its Mystletainn by the by.
Second quote overall
edited 21st Apr '18 4:06:08 AM by ElfenLiedFan90
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
V
I agree with cutting Lee. Honestly, the first time I saw him count, I just laughed. He's clearly not supposed to be taken seriously, nor, as previously stated, is he even heinous enough.
I'll give Lehman a![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]")
.
"Now I have a machine gun. Ho ho ho."