During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Spencer
to Smaug the Golden, Junior Hendergast, Thiago, Smaug, Vlad Tepes, Donkey Zheng, and Spencer.
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to Titus H. Crockett.
Goku Black
The guy with the weird name of Donkey and Spencer
Yes to Spencer
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to Spencer.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Wild Child
Spencer.
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Spencer, Donkey
Goku Black
So uh anybody count on RWBY: Ice Queendom
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
The Moron
If I can have like two more days to finish that off, I would greatly appreciate that
Classy, Refined, Unstable
I'm aware that the Tales of Arcadia series has been fully drained of candidates (the other heinous enough ones have clear cut redeeming features, ffs Gunmar) but has the books the series was based on been looked into?
Edited by WetFlannels on Oct 6th 2022 at 11:47:26 AM
Yes, yes, old boy, we'd like nothing more than to stay and be a part of your primitive, barbaric society, but duty calls, duty calls...
Imperfect Disgrace
No, I don't think so. However, I have the Trollhunters: Defenders of Arcadia game on my to-do list, and honestly, I think Morgana might be even worse there. I'm planning to look over the walkthrough there and see if she ends up qualifying, especially since she isn't redeemed there as far as I'm concerned, and it's non-canon.
Edited by Misry6 on Oct 6th 2022 at 4:05:09 AM
Just an empty void…
The Draftsman of Doom
Yes to Spencer.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Found an unapproved entry on YMMV.Tales Of Arcadia, speaking of which.
~Crimson Chaos 100 — Please do not add entries for unapproved candidates to the YMMV pages.
See here for a look at an example of a candidate's effortpost. You will notice it has about 5 relevant sections.
What is the work?
Describe the work and its setting.
Who is the candidate, and what have they done?
Describe the candidate and the atrocities they commit.
Mitigating Factors?
Do they have compromised moral agency, a troubled past, or altruistic traits? If they do, then they must stifle any altruism, have had moral agency while committing atrocities, or have their atrocities overshadow any tragic backstory.
Heinousness?
Compare the atrocities committed by other villains or other characters to those committed by the candidate.
Verdict?
Describe whether you approve of the candidate or not.
Your friendly neighbourhood Spider-Man.
to Dr. Alt, King Book, Zachary Devon, Coach, Santo Ferreira, Midas, Ronald Crump, Faulkner, Daphne Vann, General Alexander Martien, Piedmon, Michael Krieger, Thomas Newmeyer, King Neo Descal, Rhulk, Smaug, Junior Hendergast, Thiago, Smaug, Vlad Tepes, Donkey Zheng and Spencer.
to Titus H. Crockett.
Edited by MGD107 on Oct 6th 2022 at 4:24:59 AM
Goku Black
Sky don't bother. We already shot down Ursna like twice already.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
The Draftsman of Doom
I forgot about those discussions. I still think it was worth a shot explaining our procedure to the other editor.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Oct 6th 2022 at 7:31:26 AM
Your friendly neighbourhood Spider-Man.
I just want another Lena Headey. She's been cut twice for me
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Guessing Morgana and Ma-Ma?
Speaking of Tales Of Arcadia... got a possible image of Bellroc holding innocents hostage. Thoughts?
film!Smaug, very weak to animated Smaug(and tbh only on the basis that he's bad enough for the tone of a children's film).
As for Book Smaug, he dosen't make it because not only does he have to compare with Glaurung, but also he comes off as a generic evil dragon and he isn't connected with Sauron in any way
Edited by xie323 on Oct 6th 2022 at 4:57:50 AM
Pensive Wright
Found this entry implicitly referring to Chris Cleek
- Wouldn't Hurt a Child: Darlin' is the youngest and only child of the family who is not affected by Chris' sexism or any abuse for that matter.
DONKEH!!! and Spencer.
Chris is fine to stay but his writeup could use a touch up.
As is:
- In this novel, which was later made into a film, Chris Cleek, the patriarch of the Cleek family, is an extreme misogynyst and Domestic Abuser. Upon encountering the titular woman in the woods, he kidnaps and imprisons her within a fruit cellar, under the guise of civilizing her. In reality, he intends on dominating her, whether it be through several types of torture, such as using a high pressure power washer to bathe her, or by raping her. It's revealed later on in the novel that Cleek had raped his daughter, Peggy, each night, which culminates in her being pregnant with his child. When Miss Raton, Peggy's teacher, confronts him on this, he knocks her out, and feeds her to his dogs; the scene also reveals that Cleek had a daughter, who suffered from anophthalmia (no eyes), imprisoned in the barn, thus causing her to revert to an animalistic state. Misogynistic and depraved, Cleek didn't care who he had to hurt to make his fantasies a reality.
Suggested:
- Chris Cleek, his family's patriarch, is an extreme misogynist and Domestic Abuser. Upon encountering the titular woman in the woods, he kidnaps and imprisons her within a fruit cellar, under the guise of civilizing her. In reality, he intends on dominating her, whether it be through several types of torture, such as using a high pressure power washer to bathe her, or by raping her. It's revealed later on in the novel that Cleek had raped his daughter, Peggy, each night, which culminates in her being pregnant with his child. When Miss Raton, Peggy's teacher, confronts him on this, he knocks her out, and feeds her to his dogs; where it's also reveals that Cleek had a daughter, who was born eyeless, imprisoned in the barn, thus causing her to revert to an animalistic state.
Thoughts?
Imperfect Disgrace
to that Bellroc image, might propose another version from a Rise of the Titans rewrite from Ao3 that I'm invested in.
Edited by Misry6 on Oct 6th 2022 at 5:29:24 AM
Just an empty void…
Oh, yes to that image as well Wet!
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Don't mind the tweaks there 43!
Speaking of writeups, does anyone find this one from Mortal Engines to be a bit odd?
- Complete Monster: Thaddeus Valentine is the head of the Guild of Historians and the second-in-command to the mayor of London, Magnus Crome. Introduced observing the mobile city of London devouring a small mining town, it was revealed that prior to the main story, Thaddeus personally murdered the mother of the assassin - and his own daughter - Hester Shaw, and scarred Hester's face in order to gain an Old Technology for his own agenda. When one of the other Historians, Tom Nasworthy, found this out, Thaddeus released the dangerous criminal Shrike and sent him after Hester and Tom. It was revealed that he uses said Old Technology in order to activate a weapon known as MEDUSA that could destroy the Shield Wall that protected the static settlement known as Shan Guo so that he could make it his new hunting ground. When the mayor found out about Thaddeus's plans, Thaddeus murdered him in cold blood. When his plans of destroying the Shield Wall failed, he then orders his henchmen to execute London's control crew and plans to ram London into the wall. His own daughter Katherine called him out on how his only goal was to gain more power.
He's observing London devouring a mining town? That doesn't sound he's the one behind it, just witnessing it.
Yes, yes, old boy, we'd like nothing more than to stay and be a part of your primitive, barbaric society, but duty calls, duty calls...
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]")
Spencer
IPP Wick Check created.