During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
the Tonies
Note: I am mostly opening this hoping someone just as, or more informed, can chime in on the heinous standard for this series as I am not quite up to date on it as a whole. Or even the character flunking due to a discrepancy. Open discussion.
Work: Re Zero - Starting Life in Another World (context: Novels)
Regulus Corneas
The Sin Archbishop of the Witch Cult, representing Greed. He debuted in the second interlude of Arc 3 and is one of the main antagonists of Arc 5. Regulus was born to humble origins with a loving, impoverished family. Already wicked as a child, Regulus resented this life and everyone he felt had wronged him to end up as he did. At an unspecified point, Regulus was chosen as a Sin Archbishop and granted the Authority of Greed in correspondence to his heart's truest desires; this grants him the powers of nigh-invulnerable intangibility, eternal youth, and conventional offensive abilities. With his new powers, Regulus murdered his whole family and his entire village, subsequently sexually enslaving a girl he pined for, breaking her mind, and killing her entire family in front of her.Regulus, feeling euphoric, believes his powers have granted him the ability to finally live a fulfilling life free of worry. Developing a god complex, Regulus would murder anyone he felt offended him, decimating entire kingdoms and villages for petty slights; Regulus would single-handedly inspire fear of the Witch Cult. In his leisure time, Regulus would inflict the same fate on women he did to his now late wife, effectively becoming a slaver. Regulus would kidnap at least 290 women after repeating the same mindbreaking/family slaughtering process he did with his first wife (to explicitly assert his dominance over them), killing 238 of them either for his amusement or for his powers: Regulus would use his wives as a life link in accordance with his powers, as Regulus is invulnerable only for five seconds before his intangibility would take its toll on him. By forcing his stasis onto others, they can suffer the lethal effects for him and effectively grant him complete invulnerability so long as he has slaves to spare.
Regulus is eventually killed in Act 5 in a massive battle.
Mitigating Factors
Unlike the other explored Archbishops, I find it notable in that I was unable to scrounge for even a lick of a redeeming quality or Freudian Excuse; He has hostile relationships with all his cohorts or associates and attempts to kill them for what he perceives as disrespecting him. He is even described as the cruelest in a cult renowned for cruelty. And his Domestic Abuse is quite detailed, in that he's seen using his wives as blatant human shields and his first wife was only ever relieved on her deathbed, finally free of him.Edited by Sung-Hwan on Jul 21st 2022 at 2:07:56 AM
As much as I hate doing this and would love to have a Chris Mc Lean cm, giving how loathsome he is in Canon and the fanfic reimaging him even worse....there are a few potential Mitigating Factors including ones that weren't mentioned in his effortpost:
- Chris McLean is even more sadistic than he already was in canon in this fic that reimagines Total Drama Island as a Deadly Game. Having come up with the idea of a snuff reality show to be sold on the black market, Chris recruits a Corrupt Politician and the Serbian mafia to help him make his dream into a reality. He then kidnaps 24 teenagers and forces them to compete for their lives, subjecting the losers to increasingly gory and painful deaths. Nineteen teens are killed over the course of the season, with all but two dying either directly or indirectly by his machinations. Many of his victims are killed in gruesome manners such as being burned to death, having their head blown up by a grenade, or being sawed in half by hand.
While certainly bad enough and played serious and dark enough. There are a few potential redeeming qualities.
- The original effortposter argued that Chris designed the challenge that got DJ mauled by the bear but even so the empathy he showed was genuine with the text explicitly stating that Chris showed sympathy and went on to Mercy Kill him with a venomous snake with a solemn look on his face....he kills others in horrible ways afterwards but nothing specifically subverts this moment
- The next part and the part that WASN'T included in the effortpost and is the stronger argument for a redeeming quality. Is Chris getting nostalgic after eating Duncan's cookies during the cooking challenge and saying that they are "gooey" just like "meemaw" used to make. It is a somewhat comedic moment in a otherwise dark fanfic but it definitely seems to imply that he cared for his grandmother, especially since he goes on to give another dessert 10 points higher than the cookies
Here is his effortpost btw:
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=6vic3f9h1cy5qivsenw8llok&page=8367
Edited by username2527 on Jul 21st 2022 at 2:54:03 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
BTW, anyone from Land of Wano Arc?'
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
I think lighty brought it up already but Kaido is bad enough by planning to plunge the entire world into war. But cares for his men, has a sensw of honour and well he's an Abusive Parent to Yamato, also accepts his gender transition and rather respectfully calls him his son.
Edited by miraculous on Jul 21st 2022 at 3:05:02 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
@ACW
Kurozumi Orochi is a malignant psychopath that is trying to bleed every bit of deliberate suffering out upon the populace of Wano before eventually killing everyone on it in the name of revenge. And as recent developments show, he absolutely cares for no one but himself, willing to throw his only remaining family under the bus in one final attempt at destroying all of Wano.
Also, the aforementioned Kaido called him a sicko at one point, namely because he spread around defective SMILE fruits across trash bins for the starving populace of Wano to eat. Why did he do that? Because their sad attitudes bothered him.
Edited by Sung-Hwan on Jul 21st 2022 at 3:21:49 AM
The Draftsman of Doom
Leaning towards a cut for Chris.
Feels good, don't it?
Showtime!
Cut Chris
Anyone have any information on Regulus? He sounds pretty bad to me from Sung's post, but I'm not super familiar with the series
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
Alien, Tony, & Tony
Cut Chris & John
I'm sorry, but that comment on "Orochi is a keeper" for the guy who clearly expresses his anger over his clan's persecution and seeing his own mother killed in front of him..I don't see a reason to say no to Reguluous, but Sung, this is not showing me your understanding of potentials here has improved.
I...just didn't think that Orochi's Freudian Excuse would hold up after everything, mainly with trying to sacrifice Kanjuro; previously, his slight concern for him was what people held up to be his redeeming quality.
Also, I never meant to imply he was a keeper. I just thought ACW was looking for characters to *consider* because otherwise I would have made an effortpost than just a description.
if Orochi and Kaido are debunked, there's really nothing to go on for Wano unless someone wants to pursue the (rather feeble) topic of Queen.
Edited by Sung-Hwan on Jul 21st 2022 at 5:59:40 AM
The Draftsman of Doom
Sung: I didn't notice your EP before, but I suggest you elaborate by comparing the deeds of the candidate to the deeds of the other villains.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Jul 21st 2022 at 9:01:55 AM
Feels good, don't it?
as written in the post: that's not quite an EP. With some permission, it was made (cohesively) trying to get possible attention from other fans for assistance on construction/debunking.
Edited by Sung-Hwan on Jul 21st 2022 at 6:08:48 AM
Queen can't even begin to be a discussion? He's hilarious, he's genuinely loyal to Kaido in all ways and he's got a Vitriolic Best Buds relationship to King.
Orochi would be a keeper hands down, but he's clearly still upset about his clan's loss and his parents. He's an inexcusable bastard, but he's not this
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Sung: I was just wondering if anyone counted, since it was still on the discussion dates page.
Speaking of, anyone mind if I discuss Thor: Love and Thunder a day early?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
I thought Queen was the only one of the lead performers who didn't show genuine loyalty to Kaido?
Still, agree that he's not treated seriously enough to count.
erm, once again if there's confusion (sorry), I meant Queen was likely the only character that could be behind Orochi and Kaido as heinous actions are concerned for that arc's standards, not that he would be a monster nominee.
Past these three, there's really no one else that could come close for Wano. So, page closed basically.
The Draftsman of Doom
Sung: Might I suggest you revisit the work when you have a better understanding of what the villains actually do in general?
Edited by SkyCat32 on Jul 21st 2022 at 9:35:35 AM
Feels good, don't it?
Go ahead. I'll do another real quick now myself:
What's the work?
Miracle at St. Anna is a film by Spike Lee. An old bank teller is near retirement. On one of his last days at the job, an another old man comes to make a withdrawal, sees him and utters "...You!" before the old man pulls a gun and shoots him dead. The old man tells his lawyer a story dated to WW 2. How he knew the man he killed with an antique pistol. How he has a mysterious missing artifact in his room. As he says: "I know. I'm the only one left who knows!"
Let's talk the victim: Rodolfo.
Who is Rodolfo Berelli?
A member of the Italian resistance. Our hero's real name is Hector Negron, a soldier in WW 2 fighting in Italy. Rodolfo was secretly a traitor who led the SS to a village called Sant'Anna di Stazzema where the rumored Italian resistance leader was hiding. The SS, as a result, slaughtered every man, woman and child in the village save a little boy named Angelo who was saved by a disgusted German soldier named brandt.
Rodolfo betrays the partisans a second time. Concealing information, Rodolfo leads the Germans to the village the resistance is holed up in, having everyone slaughtered there a second time. When he realizes Brandt can identify him, Rodolfo murders him and the Partisan leader, Peppi, before fleeing. Hector Negron is the only survivor and is given a German luger to defend himself with by an officer sickened by the slaughter. Hector keeps a priceless artifact in the grief of what happened , and loses contact with the little boy, Angelo.
Decades later, Rodolfo lives in the US, with nobody knowing he's a war criminal. Fate collides him with Hector Negron who recognizes him and revokes his Karma Houdini status with a shot in the heart.
Mitigating issues?
None. Rodolfo is responsible for two villages being slaughtered and is a sellout to the Nazis. He kills good men, gets many others killed and cares nothing at all for it. He's the worst person in the entire film and a heartless bastard through it. Not exactly a man of any decency.
Conclusion?
Keeper.
The Draftsman of Doom
Yea to Berelli.
Feels good, don't it?
If anyone is interested in the end, Hector's defense is paid for by a mysterious benefactor who gets him off the hook for the murder after exposing the story. Said benefactor turns out to be the adult Angelo
Showtime!
to Rodolfo
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to Rodolfo.
Okay, Love and Thunder: Gorr doesn't come CLOSE to this trope (expect an MB EP on him). Probably heinous enough, but even disregarding moral agency (via the Necrosword possibly corrupting him), his backstory is WAY too sympathetic, and his last wish is to bring his daughter back to life. Christian Bale does a great job.
Now, if someone WANTED, a case could, possibly, be conceivably made for the Necrosword itself...if we knew more about it.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
the Aristo, the alien, Tony Damon, Tony Shepard and Rodolfo. Abstain on Regulus for now.
Cut Branagh's Cassetti and fanfic!McLean.
Cut 2017 Casseti.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."