During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Lost in Space
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Correct. We aren't concerned about long-standing tropers, especially when they demonstrably have other interests besides CM and MB.
Edited by Fighteer on Jun 3rd 2022 at 6:53:19 AM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Professor Gigachad
I am sure I am fine then since I have contributed a lot outside of the thread. Not that I was ever concerned.
Yeah most of us don't need to worry.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
43: Thanks mate.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I'm actually GLAD I'm longstanding, as this thread is actually where I spend most of my time on this site ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
The Draftsman of Doom
I'll be offline until Monday night, but I will hopefully get through the Outlaw: Gangster VIP series next week (Thanks, Ducky).
Feels good, don't it?
Shin Megami Tensei IV
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Nubis, Kaukasis, and Mongollis
"Anyone who registers for a TV Tropes account and posts in either the CM or MB cleanup threads without also contributing to the wiki will be banned from the Projects forums. This should reduce the number of drive-by opinions and off-site raiders. If needed we will expand this to other Projects threads."
Wait...I don't contribute the wiki at all.
Like, I come here to use the forums, I like writing my E Ps based on whatever media I consumed at the moment, its a fun hobby, but I rarely edit anything on the wikias (I think I did some edits, but they're VERY rare)
Edited by KazuyaProta on Jun 3rd 2022 at 6:49:39 AM
Watch me destroying my country
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Wilf, Adrian, 3 Kings
Had a double take with that new rule because most of my time here has been on this thread.
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Guys...
This rule is intended for a reason. It's not for the longstanding members to this thread who contribute candidates, discussion etc. It's for people who only register to stir things up.
This isn't intended, nor should it be, to hit the guys who regularly discuss in a productive and healthy matter
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Maybe the rule should be "posts in either the CM or MB cleanup threads without also contributing to the wiki, or at least participating productively in said threads, will be banned from the Projects forums"?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Showtime!
The rule isn;t being applied retroactively, as far as I can tell, so I don;t see the problem
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
Sorry I was gone most of the day, I had to prioritize other things and...
...Well. I'll just say I approve of the new rule and need some time to think about the candidates and leave it at that.
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
That... makes two of us, Imperial. 💀
That being said, regarding the rule, at the risk of sounding controversial, I'm going to abstain. I'm fine with it in principle, but it's the details that make me raise my eyebrows.
What I question is the rather harsh idea of banning someone from the projects forum if they immediately go there instead of either just suspend them and tell them where they fucked up either locking their access to the Projects forums first until they have sufficiently contributed to the wiki.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
If that what they meant, then I'm cool with the rule.
Edited by GeorgieEnkoom on Jun 3rd 2022 at 4:11:12 PM
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
The Moron
I assume that when he says “ban”, he really means “suspend” - he mentioned that they banned several people over the incident today but they’ve been given the chance to appeal in the EB thread, so it’s not a permanent thing
Ok so as long as the new user contributes in discussions without getting toxic, they should be fine?
Gentle Laborer
Just what the hell happened... I'm completely okay with the new rule, I think it's more than necessary at this point.
Okay, next Red Sonja from Marvel...back to '75, we're gonna take a look at the old Marvel Feature series, which functioned as Red Sonja's first individual series.
From issue 2, "Blood of the Hunter!" we have Rejak the Tracker.
What has Rejak done?
Issue #2 opens with Red Sonja robbing a man—that man, though, is Rejak, and he himself is a snarling brigand who has robbed many, many people. Of particular interest to Red Sonja is a super-valuable golden key around Rejak's neck, which Rejak wants back no matter what.
Rejak first massacres a tavern full of people just to announce his presence, then later on, when Red Sonja befriends a camp of people and a crippled swordsman named Bunkin, Rejak comes down and slaughters all the dozens of the men in the camp except Sonja and Bunkin. And it becomes swiftly apparently Rejak is only killing all these people to torment Sonja; the next day, after she and Bunkin try to flee, Sonja wakes up to find Bunkin murdered and his body put upon a pole to torment her.
Rejak furthermore poisons the streams for miles, killing off every animal that tries to drink the water, and finally he butchers a bunch of innocent people at a farm, which is where he finally corners Red Sonja and threatens to torture her to death if she doesn't give up the key. She ends up throwing a coral snake at him, which poisons and kills the evil shit.
Any mitigating factors?
Rejak was the first really nasty villain Red Sonja ever fought. The kind of villains she fought were typically the same of Conan and other Howard heroes that Marvel adapted; bandits, sorcerers, evil tyrants, so and so. In the original Marvel Feature series, only Rejak attained this body count and this amount of psychological torment, which even years later is impressive considering Rejak is one lone bandit. No minions, no magical powers, fuck-all, and he still kills literal dozens, all to torment one woman for stealing from him.
Conclusion?
Keeper.
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
Aye there.
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Well, now that we're here...
Cut Lin from Pokémon Reborn
She easily passes the Heinous Standard with her crimes eventually reaching apocalyptic potential, but The Reveal is that the Lin has a pretty massive Freudian Excuse for her hatred towards the world that includes being explicitly a victim of physical and sexual abuse at hands of her father and then send to the hands of resident Mad Scientist Connal. Sure that she is extremely cruel and sadistic, but ultimately Lin is a abused little girl lashing out at the world using a avatar of a older woman.
So, yeah, cut her. Heck, even her In-game title already shows her as pitiable " "Mordant Urchin Lin"
I forgot about this game and didn't realize the updates were out, that finally solved the mistery behind her.
By the way, Dr. Connal, the leader of the Orphanage of Fear that traumatized Lin also doesn't count even if he also passes the heinous standard (constant torture of minors for his psychological experiments) because he is a genuine Well-Intentioned Extremist.
Abused by her father and send to the Orphanage of Fear that tortured her because it was lead by a Mad Scientist that believes Electroshock therapy is the answer to everything.
Edited by KazuyaProta on Jun 3rd 2022 at 10:31:17 AM
Watch me destroying my country
Professor Gigachad
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
What is the FE in question?
Professor Gigachad
Alright in that case Cut Lin.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
Yea, no way I can see Lin as a CM anymore thanks to that development, so she does need to go.
Also, I've done dozens of edits and I see no issue with that requirement.
IPP Wick Check created.
I really do want new people to be in this thread and continue to contribute, but given the issues, it would cut down on the issues we have with sockpuppetry and cross wiki stuff. I do hope all the folks who were just here will fix the problem and contribute more here.
Cut Lin
Guy's it's specifically for new accounts that post exclusively here (and on the MB thread) without doing anything else, existing tropers should be fine
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon