During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Goku Black
Yeah but most villain in the manga kill like one or two very unsympathetic people.
Actual serial killers are a rarity?
Edited by miraculous on Apr 9th 2022 at 12:24:58 PM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Professor Gigachad
Well yeah I don't doubt that this guy is probably worse than most but CM's need to the the worst.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
The wifi here sucks
Leaning no on Taira, Mutsumi (the 1st one on that list) is probably the lowest level of heinousness I can see counting.
Regarding Gowron, I haven't seen the episodes he's in on TNG but I have seen a DS 9 episode that he is in and he shows genuine respect for Quark's bravery, plus I don't think the actions you listed are enough to put him up especially since he becomes the highest ranking Kilgon in DS 9
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
Looking at one of the entries for the unnamed bomber, it says that the bomber swore revenge against the Police after they killed his accomplice. The entry also says that in the present he is not motivated by vengeance anymore but still, is his care for his accomplice explicitly subverted? I couldn't find the original EP to see how this part was addressed.
And switching to no on Taira.
Edited by WatTambor on Apr 9th 2022 at 10:28:09 PM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Duras is the candidate, not Gowron. He's not in DS 9 because Worf kills him before that.
Goku Black
Oh right Duras isn't bad enough for TNG? Jev is probably way worse than him in mo. And Fago has way more of a body count.
Alright fair point. ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Taira.
Edited by miraculous on Apr 9th 2022 at 12:30:18 PM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
The wifi here sucks
Actually, could you expand on Taira trying to kill more people before he's caught? That might put him over depending on how many people he's threatening.
Oh geez, sorry my mistake. I still don't think he's bad enough though.
Edited by papyru30 on Apr 9th 2022 at 1:30:44 PM
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
Professor Gigachad
Wait Wat does bring up a good question does anyone have an answer for that?
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Goku Black
I think it was in the ep. Let me go find it.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Professor Gigachad
My inital thoughts are we have had cases where even though a villain isn't exactly motivated to commit their crimes anymore by it their fall to villainy was motivated by the death of a loved on and seeking revenge, Mark Hoffman and Regime!Superman come to mind. Now this could be different but that is something to keep in mind.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Regarding Blaine: after attacking Ross (who is Not Quite Dead, but he finishes him quickly later), he is wondering aloud if he should just kill them all, all in an attempt to scare his daughter away from university and to "get off the hook" by leaving no witnesses alive (Blaine is not as bright as he think he is, and is without a doubt Ax-Crazy).
Him and his hired cronies stop the protagonists, who are trying to escape, in their tracks, armed with blunt weapons, saying with a Psychotic Smirk that "he should just have gone with that plan to begin with" (ie. kill them all). Cue a timely heroic rescue and a general brawl before he can actually make good of his threat.
Later, when he is trying to escape, he has a knocked out Joyce in his arms, and is threatening to kill her right there, as "a dead Joyce can deter Amber from continuing college as much as a ransomed one", if her friends approach him. He ultimately prefers to run away with Joyce as his ransom, after Becky's intervention (who scheduled twitter messages in advance revealing what is happening and his identity, and left her phone behind on purpose, leaving him not much room for negociation).
Edited by NonoRobot on Apr 9th 2022 at 12:57:20 PM
Ultimate Moral Compass
- Vice Girls (1997): Quentin, real name Arnold Hilowitz, is Wolfgang’s quirky assistant who hides a dark secret. In actually an ex-Hollywood agent with twisted dreams of becoming a filmmaker, Quentin goes around luring in young porn stars and killing them on camera, selling the tapes through Wolfgang’s video store. Killing his producer Tralaine and Wolfgang by suffocating him with the tapes of his favorite movies, Quentin kidnaps Jan Cooper’s sister Polly as bait for her, planning to kill both women on camera for his latest masterpiece.
Goku Black
Could I get some help finding it. He as ep'd along with teji Morya
Also Detective Conan Film 01: The Time-Bombed Skyscraper and Detective Conan Film 15: Quarter of Silence have their own pages now.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Wait, that was my mistake. The Bomb case was episode 304.
Edited by CelestialDraco on Apr 9th 2022 at 2:49:32 PM
It's here.
This is what the EP says:
In contrast, the bomber said that he doesn't care that the bomb had not been stopped, and only cared about the money. After his accomplice is killed, the bomber vowed revenge on the police, thinking that they are manipulating his accomplice's conscience to get him.
In the mitigating factors section the user doesn't explain how he subverts his care for his partner. He just says that this doesn't justify the bomber's actions against the Police because he started out as a criminal. This is how it's explained:
Also, I have another issue reading the EP.
It's possible that the bomber is making up his insanity but if this story is true, I don't think he is sane enough to qualify.
Overall, I am leaning towards cut because the user who proposed him doesn't explain how the bomber subverts his care for his partner (he simply points out that his partner's death doesn't justify his actions) and also doesn't explain how his story that he has a child in his head telling him what to do doesn't constitute moral agency issues and says that this means the bomber is simply a psychopath.
Professor Gigachad
Okay yeah, I am giving a cut to the unnamed bomber unless we get a good argument for why this is not disqualifying because as of now this is reminding me too much of Hoffman and Superman.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Actually, there is one more comment by the user here where he claims the bomber never really cared for his partner and that he is sane enough. I missed it at first because it wasn't part of the original EP.
However, he still doesn't give a very good argument about why he doesn't care for his partner.
Edited by WatTambor on Apr 9th 2022 at 11:12:13 AM
Professor Gigachad
That doesn't really help much especially since he isn't explaining how he does.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=1649535546089974500&page=1#1
I got the image pickin' thread open for the Final Fantasy image.
Goku Black
Is anyone familiar enough with final fantasy IV. Zemus write up is not very good.
- Final Fantasy IV: Zemus, the true Big Bad, was The Corrupter of, and the man behind, Golbez. Zemus was was the only Lunarian (of which the heroic Cecil and the brainwashed Golbez are each half-Lunarian) pushing to conquer earth, resulting in him being forced by his own people to fall into a millennium-long coma to allow humanity to evolve until the two could coexist peacefully together. Even in this state, he is still capable of manipulating Golbez to carry out his unsettlingly extreme dreams of an all-Lunarian utopia, which involves not only committing the atrocities throughout the entire game, but also using the artificial abomination Giant of Babil capable of dealing massive amounts of racially-based genocide on a global scale. Besides Golbez, Zemus also manipulates Kain during his fight with Cecil, who has turned into a paladin. It is also strongly implied that Zemus was responsible for the brainwashing of the four essences' incarnations, thus being responsible for the atrocities committed by the Elemental Archfiends. It is revealed that Zemus's hatred is so strong, that after his defeat, he turns into Zeromus, a being "fed by Zemus's unbridled hate…who knows naught but hate!"
OK, I found the episode here. Give me time until tomorrow because I don't feel like watching it right now.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yeah, that's an older writeup.
Pending stuff:
- Ezel (Lighty)
- Evil Whispers, by Owl Goingback: Mansa du Paul (Lighty)
- The Dark Ages: Arnulf (Lighty)
- Omikron: The Nomad Soul (Polar)
- Lupus Davalte (Ravok)
- "The Icemon Cometh": IceDevimon (Ravok)
- Avengers Grimm trilogy: Magda the Mad (Ravok)
- Malcolm (Ravok)
- Choujin Sentai Jetman: Tranza (Reddish)
- Brother Royal(s) (Scraggle)
- The Incredible Hulk issues #351 & 352: Grand Inquisitor Risuli (Scraggle)
- Vigilante Vol. 2: Edward Aaron Culkins (STARCRUSHER)
For a quote for Arnim Zola in Captain America: The Winter Soldier.
Once the purification process is complete, Hydra's new world order will arise. We won, Captain. Your death amounts to the same as your life: A zero sum.
Arnim Zola, detailing how his organization will kill millions of people. Would this work?
Edited by Dvaderstarlord5 on Apr 9th 2022 at 1:44:36 AM
Didn't I rewrite Zemus? I remember doing that a few months back... get lost or something?
Also gonna say cut the bomber, "A kid in my head told me to do this!!!1!" as a Motive Rant isn't filling me with confidence he's sane enough even if he doesn't mention his partner (Is he even functional enough to recall he had a partner if that's what goes through his mind?)
I actually didn't known how canon worked. Even so, that still leaves the first three.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts