During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
To borrow an old meme, I see what you did there.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Tranza, ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Yu.
Goku Black
Btw I'm rather excited to have a proposal for you guys from I'm the Grim Reaper. It's going to be quite something so PM away if you want to know.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Tranza.
I did briefly consider abstaining because I am aware there is one novel sequel where he sacrifices himself to defeat Radiguet once and for all....however then I remember it seems to be more of a Harold Saxon style "Rassilion cannot control me!" than any genuine redemption from the translation I read and that it is not canon even considering the fact that Saxon was cut for years until he subverted his backstory completely with his resurrection.
Edited by xie323 on Apr 7th 2022 at 3:16:48 AM
Tran
Yu
Edited by nwotyzal on Apr 7th 2022 at 3:57:47 AM
I'll give Tran/Tranza a .
to Tranza.
Lies and Violence!
Yes to Tranza.
- A Practical Guide to Evil:
- Dread Empress Triumphant, the evilest Tyrant to ever emerge from the Wasteland, was a prodigy Diabolist who climbed the Tower and cowed the High Lords into subservience through overwhelming might, with her hordes of devils and demons rechristening the Praesi Legions into the Legions of Terror. Within ten years Triumphant was able to conquer all of Calernia through dint of bloody massacre, with notable crimes including the release of a demon of Madness on Laure; the slaughter of a fifth of the Gigantes in a battle that claimed hundreds of thousands of lives as collateral damage; the slaying of a Seraphim summoned to stop her, after which she butchered a hundred different tribes for their defiance; and the extermination of two random cities in her fury at being denied the Golden Bloom. Triumphant's reign was no better than her conquest as she regularly forced children to show obeisance by crucifying their own parents, and her final act upon inevitably being overthrown was to bring down the Tower in an effort to take her killers with her. Entertaining widescale torture and murder with an eye towards expanding her rule across all of Creation, Triumphant inspired such fear and terror that countless future generations of Praesi pray for her to never somehow find a way to return from death.
- Book 6: The Wicked Enchanter used his expertise in domination magics to murder, rob, and rape his way across the outskirts of the Brocelian Forest, with the tortures and rape he inflicted on one girl turning her into the Red Axe. At the advice of the Wandering Bard, the Enchanter joined the Truce and Terms for amnesty from his crimes, but not before taking his "court" to terrorize three more villages.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Aren't there 2 more from that work?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Lies and Violence!
Yes, there's a drow I hope to get to by Monday, and then the Dead King, who is probably going to take a while. Please don't feel any need when swapping pages to wait up for me on the latter.
Edited by EmeraldEmperor on Apr 7th 2022 at 9:28:41 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Alright, I'll get these 2 with this week's batch then.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
The Draftsman of Doom
What is the work?
"All Fall Down" & "Fallen" are respectively the finale of the eighth season and premiere episode of the ninth season of CSI: Miami.
When multiple people affiliated with Dade University are targeted for death, the prime suspect appears to be a student who faked her thesis. It turns out that her Professor has his own motives.
Who is Professor Robert "Bob" Starling, and what has he done?
After being denied tenure on account of Melissa Walls's faked thesis, her professor, Robert "Bob" Starling, retaliates against those he sees as responsible for sabotaging his career.
Bob shoots one victim with a remote controlled rifle, drowns another under a pool cover, and attempts to burn the third one alive with a compound of potassium and water created with fake cologne.
While Bob is giving a lecture, he manipulates Melissa into releasing halon gas in an attempt to suffocate dozens of CSI lab workers, successfully having police officer Jesse Cardoza killed. All this is meant to suppress any evidence against him.
Later manipulating Melissa into framing a custodian for setting up a (fake) death trap for her, Bob subsequently distracts the CSI team with a fake bomb at a local beach.
Melissa subsequently uses a remote controlled gun to aid and abet Bob's escape.
Unfortunately for Bob, Lt. Horatio Caine manages to turn Melissa against him because he set her up, and she records him incriminating himself.
Mitigating Factors?
Bob sees Melissa as a tool for manipulation. His relationship with her is entirely selfish. He cares about nobody but himself.
Heinousness?
Ordinarily, 3 murders and a deadly gas attack against the heroes wouldn't push Bob over, but since only one other potential candidate that I know of uses deadly gas as part of his modus operandi (CSI: NY's "Cabbie Killer", who uses his modified vehicle to asphyxiate people with carbon monoxide), and Bob attempts to kill dozens of people with deadly gas (even if they work for the MDPD), he carves his own niche.
Even taking into account an arsonist who sets a crowded club on fire in order to engineer heroics, who has a potentially higher body count, Bob still passes muster due to putting deadly gas in a building's ventilation.
Verdict?
Possible contender.
By the way, the arsonist seems to care at least somewhat about one of his friends, so I don't intend on evaluating him, as much as I'd love for him to keep.
However, if someone notices something I missed, he appears in "Tinder Box".
Edited by SkyCat32 on Apr 7th 2022 at 10:17:29 AM
Your friendly neighbourhood Spider-Man.
Goku Black
Oh hey I remember this prick.
Starling
Quite unpredictable
How does the "Cabbie Killer" stack up in terms of heinousness compared to Prof. Starling? I'm not familiar with CSI, so if NY and Miami have a similar heinous standard, it might help to compare the two gassers. Abstaining for now.
"I don't have the power to reverse my destiny. [...] But I'm not going to turn away from my fate anymore." — Kiriya
Goku Black
That dude from memory just kills 7 people, 2 attempted. This guy has him way beat in attempted.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Quite unpredictable
Yeah, 9 doesn't compare to dozens. Tentative to Starling.
The Draftsman of Doom
Cabbie Killer successfully kills seven, and gets one man killed as a result of a frame-up, with two more attempted, but Cabbie has less resources.
I'm not saying Cabbie can't keep, especially since he weaponizes vehicles so that they kill passengers. I'll get to him later this month.
Also, there's a difference in modus operandi: one uses a ventilation system to distribute gas, the other uses a modified vehicle.
&![[nja]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/user_ninja_2074.png "[nja]"){kind=small}
Edited by SkyCat32 on Apr 7th 2022 at 10:03:20 AM
Your friendly neighbourhood Spider-Man.
Goku Black
He's also crazy right?
He legit thinks the people he kills (he picks them from random billboards) are "sinners" who must be delivered to Hell.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
The Draftsman of Doom
I mean, I haven't watched the episodes (yet), but if you're right, I won't bother. I'm getting conflicting information from the wiki, and I will have to see the episodes myself.
By the way, when are you doing Suspect X?
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Sure.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Apr 7th 2022 at 10:08:06 AM
Your friendly neighbourhood Spider-Man.
Goku Black
I haven't seen them either? (I was usually more of a original csi or Miami watcher)
Just from what I've heard.
So check if you want. Maybe people were exaggerating with me.
You can take her if you want. I'm busy with collabs. She's probably the last of the big body count killers we haven't discussed yet. Who you know doesn't have an fe or redeeming qualities.
Edited by miraculous on Apr 7th 2022 at 7:06:35 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
The MILF Virus
Tranza and Sterling
So I got someone I'm considering for a cut and an unapproved candidate that honestly I think might qualify.
Clock Tower 3, I want to put if we can cut Darcy Burroughs. While the man is a mass killer who tormented his village with little to no care and created the serial killers The Scissor Twins, why it happened is because of the death of his daughter. Darcy loved his daughter Annabelle that when she died in an accident, Darcy's grief cause him to go insane and take it out on the villagers. Scummy? Yes. Evil? Absolutely. But CM? With the thing with Annabelle, I have to say no honestly.
That said, Corroder does have some arguments for him, particularly his use of acid is very unique and unlike the other killers, Corroder was perfectly sane when he did what he did compared to the others who were either insane or implied to be brainwash with there murders.
"Are you the devil?" "Don't compare to me to those small fry" - Mir
He was raising her to sacrifice her as I covered in my EP, threw a fit when he couldn't achieve the ritual he wanted and starting slaughtering people as a result. Covered that in my EP
to Tran and Starling.
I was just wondering something. Would it be okay if I made a video example suggestion, or have there been too many today and I should try against tomorrow or some other time?
The Draftsman of Doom
Keep Darcy.
The Sandbox.Monster Other Media edits should be done now.
For the record, I combined Audio Play and Radio Drama into one folder, leaving the remaining folder for shorts.
I'll let W correct anything I missed.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Apr 7th 2022 at 10:36:53 AM
Your friendly neighbourhood Spider-Man.
Chernobog, Risuli, Tranza and Bob
Rool and Seongbin
@ACW He's the second most prominent villain after Radiguet, so middle should be where he goes.
Just imagine something here.