During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Barb / Temporary Kylo
@Ordeux
Again, if people are gonna do that its there fault, the search function is right there.
The First man
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
If we have one of Doom, we gotta have this (start around 3 minutes in):
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Start around 3:20 then?
Edited by ACW on Jan 29th 2022 at 9:14:02 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Professor Gigachad
Man I would love to use that video but out of context of what Doom's full character is it makes him seem like he is a ruthless Well-Intentioned Extremist.
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Jan 29th 2022 at 6:08:40 AM
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
The Draftsman of Doom
Dip video works. Unsure on the Dip Video.
Here is a candidate I disappointedly had previously dismissed who I think may be worthy of discussion after all.
What is the work?
Human Cargo is a 1936 Gangster Film about a pair of reporters who work to expose a Human Trafficking ring.
At the center of the syndicate is a supposedly respectable figure.
Needless to say, massive spoilers ahead.
Who is Gilbert Fender and what has he done?
Gilbert Fender, a former attorney and seemingly a respectable member of the San Francisco community, is actually the ringleader of the human traffickers.
Fender's organization regularly smuggles approximately 10,000 "illegal aliens" a month into the United States before subjecting them to extortion under the threat of exposure.
Fender regularly has his subordinates toss their "human cargo" overboard when pursued by the police, having allegedly drowned hundreds of cargo, most recently a shipment of 17 people.
Meanwhile, rival reporters Patrick "Packy" Campbell and Bonnie Brewster work to expose the human trafficking ring.
Fender routinely has witnesses against his organization assassinated, as shown when witness Carmen Zoro is killed in District Attorney Joe Carey's office.
After Packy and Bonnie track down Carmen's killer, Bonnie stops by Fender's house in order to discuss her scoop. Unfortunately for Bonnie, Fender has decided to take her captive in order to silence her.
Meanwhile, the killer reveals Fender's role in the organization to Packy after the latter verbally torments him by implying to him that he'll probably get the death penalty.
When confronted by DA Carey and Packy, Fender subtly intimidates his subordinate into recanting his accusation, only for Packy to discover a piece of Bonnie's jewelry and then a captive Bonnie, proving Fender's guilt.
After unsuccessfully attempting to kill himself, Fender confesses before being taken away.
Mitigating Factors?
Considering that the drowning of the "human cargo" drives the plot, we see the actual shipping of human cargo, and we see a witness being eliminated, we can't truly consider Fender's actions to be as offscreen as I initially thought.While there is some levity in the film, none of it directly relates to Fender's atrocities.
When confronted by his supposed "friend" DA Joe Carey, Fender's confession is resigned, but lacking in any remorse or any indication that he ever cared about his former Law Partner.
Heinousness?
The man is indicated to routinely have any witnesses to his actions or extortion victims who talk, killed, and has had hundreds of "illegal aliens" drowned in order to evade police detection.He's on top of the food chain. Pass.
Verdict?
Fender the Contender.Edited by SkyCat32 on Jan 29th 2022 at 9:14:27 AM
Your friendly neighbourhood Spider-Man.
Professor Gigachad
That one is far to long and I don't see a good spot to cut it.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Gilbert
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Jan 29th 2022 at 6:17:12 AM
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Goku Black
Gilbert
I like Ordeaux's video. More thoughts on mine.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Professor Gigachad
I like yours as well.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Fernando David Páez Contreras
Gilbert.
I thought of a better one (at least from my perspective) of Unicron from The Transformers: The Movie.
Edited by MrInk99 on Jan 29th 2022 at 10:25:29 AM
I have two images, each of them containing a different villain. Not confident in them at all though.
Pokemon Adventures Ghetsis Throwing N To His Apparent Death
◊
Edited by SailorVenus372 on Jan 29th 2022 at 6:31:38 AM
I’m plotting my schemes wherever I go! They’re perfect in every way…
Professor Gigachad
That was one video I planned to submit later so I will gladly upvote it now.
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Jan 29th 2022 at 6:26:09 AM
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
The Draftsman of Doom
Second image is better, Venus.
Any thoughts on the most recent candidate?
I'm a yea there.
Professor Gigachad
Wait nevermind its listed on the video
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Jan 29th 2022 at 6:57:44 AM
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
The Draftsman of Doom
- Human Cargo (1936): Gilbert Fender, District Attorney Joe Carey's former legal partner and a seemingly respectable member of the San Francisco community, is actually the ringleader of the human traffickers who reporters Patrick "Packy" Campbell and Bonnie Brewster are trying to expose. Regularly smuggling approximately 10,000 "illegal aliens" into the United States per month via his organization and subjecting them to extortion under threat of exposure, Fender regularly has his subordinates toss their "human cargo" overboard when pursued by the police, with hundreds of cargo dying as such. Additionally, Fender regularly silences any witnesses against him, including a club entertainer. Exposed to Carey and the police by Packy after taking Bonnie captive, Fender attempts suicide only to be interrupted by Packy and hauled off by the police.
I thought 6 was the minimum you had to wait. Usually I wait longer, but the thread was stalled.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Jan 29th 2022 at 10:31:16 AM
Your friendly neighbourhood Spider-Man.
That was... sudden for a writeup to come. Anyways I'm a yeah, guess him being a trafficker with no redeeming qualities and all you won't have too much in the way of counterarguments to worry about though.
I'll hold off on the videos and pics, we're suddenly being flooded and I prefer to pause because in the past it's lead to problems with ones that don't actually work being approved in batches.
Showtime!
to Gilbert
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Fender, Hikawa, Marco
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Owada
A tentative to the magician unfortunately due to the fucked up standards of that show like child murder is done by the common enemies of that show. I would've been swayed yes if they were aware of their actions but I don't recall the show treating it like that?
Edited by WetFlannels on Jan 29th 2022 at 3:46:43 PM
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
to the unnamed magician
Classy, Refined, Unstable
I also like all the videos that have been suggested for the last couple pages
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
to Gilbert
to the Magician. The guy is a Generic Doomsday Villain with zilch personality
Edited by G-Editor on Jan 29th 2022 at 11:25:36 AM
Imperfect Disgrace
Fender.
Marco and Hikawa are yeses; Owada's a no, he just sounds like a far, FAR lesser Shido.