During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Yes to Sellars.
Christ, I knew there was one I was missing...the EP is making out the heinous effects of this villain to be...erasing their memories?
Once again? I'm offering a "cut" vote to the Chameleon.
Edited by Scraggle on Oct 28th 2021 at 3:22:42 AM
Professor Gigachad
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Sellars, I do wonder why he was never discussed before though, not going to downvote or abstain this time though as I know the thread doesn't like that.
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Sellers.
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Chameleon.
Edited by MasterN on Oct 28th 2021 at 2:22:49 AM
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Written off for being too generic.
Professor Gigachad
Oh, what reason was the written off for being too generic that has changed now? I mean if he was rejected before I would like to know what the new argument is?
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Oct 28th 2021 at 2:27:18 AM
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Woagh
to Sellers.
Cut Chameleon. The EP also empathizes some "slavery" aspect of the guy, but at this point I'd doubt that it's anything but Fridge Horror.
NOISE IS CALLING, PICK UP PHONE
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Sure to Sellars...though I must've missed it: Seems like he does enough in the movie without the comic where he...unpersons someone who killed himself?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
The Draftsman of Doom
Yes to Sellers.
Eh, cut Chameleon.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Can't say I blame you.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Oct 28th 2021 at 5:30:02 AM
Feels good, don't it?
Basically the new information with Sellers...the comic. I wouldn't vote up the guy based on the movie itself. But when the comic establishes the whole "turn innocent person into robot" thing, regardless of their complicity, is a recurrent action? I'll say yes.
I have no idea why Chameleon went up. It is entirely generic villainy, nothing worse than forced amnesia. Cut him, burn the Earth. If any more MLP villains come up, you better fucking believe I'm not letting them on without a fight.
Edited by Scraggle on Oct 28th 2021 at 3:28:43 AM
Disagree, it emphasizes his strong arming of the US military personal and adds a pattern to his sleazy attempts to reduce his own country into a police state. I've seen the film, with it alone he really doesn't make much impact.
Blow the Chameleon out of the water... don't drink and vote folks!
Edited by 43110 on Oct 28th 2021 at 9:30:24 AM
Professor Gigachad
Alright that makes sense.
I am tempted to say Cut Chameleon, but I always thought that Death of Personality did count as a heinous action, though I guess it would depend on how the narrative treats it, so unless it does cut.
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Oct 28th 2021 at 2:32:04 AM
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Ah, so the comic is more about the pattern then? Eh, sure to him. Movie seems not worth watching (don't water down R-rated action franchises kids).
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Yes to Sellars and cut the MLP examples posthaste
The Draftsman of Doom
Any more thoughts on Jason? N made an EP.
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Thanks for that.
Also, I know that we typically don’t add anything to the Never Again list unless it is a really big problem, and have discouraged knee-jerk adding to it… but is it possible we may need to add MLP to there? At least, if another proposal comes through?
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Professor Gigachad
Problem is we can't when we have one villain approved.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Hellgate, Sunray, & Sellars
Cut Chameleon
Speaking of sugar bowls, who did the EP for The Dark Princess. Because given the scrutiny we’re giving the MLP candidates, I’m wondering if this is similar (I’m wondering if the princess causing the heat death of the universe is Fridge Horror or not, IDK, I haven’t seen it)
to Sellars. While there's definitely reason to doubt Chameleon, I'm a bit hesitant to cut him without looking at the material first. Still, if we decide to cut first and ask questions later, I won't fight it.
Speaking of, I'm going to look at some obscure foreign translations of MLP works.
Professor Gigachad
I will admit I have never seen Rainbow Brite but from what I have heard Dark Princess explicitly states that everyone will die in darkness with her plan.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
I'll say yes to Jason, but...yeah, why isn't MLP under the Never Again list? Nobody except the Periphery Demographic has any established idea that they'll count; the environment and the context that they exist in, qualification is almost (not quite, but almost) impossible.
Add it the NA list. And re-emphasizing; cut, cut, cut the Chameleon. I haven't a single idea why a villain this generic and kid-friendly was allowed onto our list on the first place.
I've been on the thread long enough to remember the initial EP for the Dark Princess. I'm fine with her keeping. They destroy the Never Say "Die" convention, and then establish that to the entire universe is in danger ("all of us...will die"); while the writeup's term of "trillions will die!" may be an exaggeration in-universe to me (partly because I made the original writeup) I don't think her qualification itself is in question.
Edited by Scraggle on Oct 28th 2021 at 3:42:47 AM
The wifi here sucks
Yes to Sellars and Jason
So the only MLP character that is staying up is Cosmos then?
I think Scraggle said that it's not fridge horror
Also I support the NA listing, having a character up doesn't preclude it being on the list since that's already the situation with Jurassic Park
Edited by papyru30 on Oct 28th 2021 at 3:42:22 AM
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
The Draftsman of Doom
Considering the guy who originally effortposted the Rainbow Brite candidate has since engaged in sockpuppetry and ban-evasion, I want someone trustworthy, like Scraggle, 43110, or ACW to verify it.
![[nja]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/user_ninja_2074.png "[nja]"){kind=small}
Well, Scraggle, I'll take your word for it.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Oct 28th 2021 at 5:47:31 AM
Feels good, don't it?
Yes to Jason
Actually, could we expand it to Sugar Bowl settings in general? Or at least make a note that villains from such settings will be a hard sell without explicit confirmation that their actions will kill/have killed people?
Anyways this dude got shot down before but amongst other things he's got more added to him via the Boom! comic expansion and boring or not, he's worth a look.
What's the work?
Robocop 2014 is a forgettable remake of the original. Alex Murphy is turned into a cyborg as part of a PR stunt to repeal an act preventing OmniCorp from letting their war drones operate on US soil. While CEO Raymond Sellars is forgettable, I feel the comics do just enough to push him over.
Who is Sellars? What has he done?
Played by Michael Keaton which is literally the most interesting thing about him, in the comic prequel Sellars coerces an American General into accepting the aid of his "resurrected" soldier remodelled into a machine. Unfortunately said soldier nightmarishly recalls a war crime he committed on bad intel and nearly kills his former platoon before killing himself... Sellars promptly covers up the incident, Unpersoning the man before moving on.
In the film proper his machines run total police states with Sellars cheerfully threatening to sell them elsewhere if the Army denies his services and they gun down a teenager for so much as brandishing a knife. Hoping to bring his tyranny back home he takes advantage of Murphy's fatal injuries in a car bombing to have him refitted into a machine, horrified by his new state but drugged into submission. When Murphy's performance proves lacklustre he has him doped up with chemicals to make him think he's in control but in actuality being taken over by his machine parts.
Things get increasingly problematic as Murphy's behavior leaves his wife feeling isolated and suspicious and eventually Sellars deems his usefulness has expired. At this point he tries to have the heroic cyborg put down after winning the appeal of the Dreyfus Act that prevents his drones from operating in the US but Murphy breaks free, fighting through Sellars troops and managing to fight off his failsafe programming to shoot the evil CEO dead.
Mitigating factors?
None, he's as generic an evil businessperson as you can get.
Heinousness?
Not shockingly bad but for this branch of canon I think the intent to extend a worldwide police state for profit and pattern of nightmare-induing surgery to create and later dispose of pawns is enough. No one else in this branch competes with him either.
'Verdict?
Keeper.
Edited by 43110 on Oct 28th 2021 at 9:21:32 AM