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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Mediawatcher Since: Dec, 2015
#278977: Sep 13th 2021 at 12:18:00 PM

[tup] witch king, Rebecca, and Sam

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#278978: Sep 13th 2021 at 12:50:13 PM

Yes to the Witch-King, and yes to the Van Helsing duo, having been told about 'em.

I got two more Oz keeps today, then I'm gonna cause on those briefly to do a Lupin baddie from a series my bro STAR has already covered on MB, and a Stephen King villain we missed.

Here's the second from Tin Man.

Who is Zero? What has he done?

Zero is The Dragon to Azkedellia, and while he's not necessarily aware that an evil witch is living inside Azkedellia's head he's still bereft of any of Azkedellia's actual standards; indeed, when she does show standards (such as when Zero is imploring Azkedellia to torture her own sister DG) it seems to confuse him.

Zero's head of the "longcoats" (stand-ins for, I'm guessing, the Winkies) and general persecution in the OZ. His claim to fame, though, is what he did to Wyatt Cain and his family. When Zero refused to obey Azkedellia post-coup, Zero came down, tortured Cain's wife Adora and his young son in front of him, then murdered Adora. Zero then promptly stuck Cain in a "tin man" suit and left him. Cain's only window to the outside world was a recording of his family's torture he was Forced to Watch on loop. For eight years straight.

Cain is understandably pissed when he breaks free and spends the rest of the miniseries on a blood hunt for Zero. At the end of the first episode, Zero gloats over what he did to Cain's family before shooting Cain in the heart and throwing him from the top of Azkedellia's castle—Cain only survives through a miracle. Zero also manages to capture many of the heroes allies with the help of a traitor, the latter of whom he gratefully rewards with the option of either a "slow death" or a "quick death" before ordering her dragged off.

Zero's ultimately captured by Cain and his now-grown son, stuck in the tin man suit himself; if the heroes survive in their journey they'll turn Zero into proper authorities, and if they die, Zero'll stay there. Somewhat unfortunately, the heroes do in fact survive, though Zero's never seen again after he's stuck in the tin man suit.

Any mitigating factors?

Nope. Zero's exceptionally nasty for a Dragon; while the bulk of his qualification relies on what he does to Cain and his family, it's an exceptionally awful crime and Zero spends the rest of the series gloating about it. He's an arrogant sadist and the worst in the Witch's retinue, notably so than even her torture-happy Mad Scientist.

Conclusion?

Keeper.

Edited by Scraggle on Sep 13th 2021 at 1:51:10 PM

PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#278979: Sep 13th 2021 at 12:50:53 PM

Yes to the Witch King, LORD OF THE DECPETICONS - MEGATRON IS DEAD AND NOW I WILL LEAD - sorry I have no idea what happened there. Yes to the Lord of the Nazgul. I think this is an instance where the Adaptation is different enough that we can take it as its own thing.

Yes to the Van Helsing and Oz candidates.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#278980: Sep 13th 2021 at 12:54:11 PM

[tup]Zero

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#278982: Sep 13th 2021 at 12:56:58 PM

Oh, I forgot to mention:

Apparently Amazon are making a Live-Action She-Ra show.

I am not joking.

I won't reserve because I haven't got Prime.

G-Editor Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#278983: Sep 13th 2021 at 12:57:44 PM

[tup] to the Witch, The Witch King of Angmar, Rebecca, Brainiac, Elynion, Sam, and Zero.

Alright got a few candidates from Ghost of Tsushima more specifically from the DLC expansion Iki Island. Lightysnake already discussed what the main game was about when he proposed Khotun Khan and the others, so I’ll get straight to discussing the Iki Island Expansion.

What’s The Work?

Iki Island is an expansion of Ghost of Tsushima, available to those who get the Director’s Cut. Taking place after Jin Sakai drove killed Khotun Khan and the Mongols out of Tsushima, Jin travels to the island, Iki, upon hearing about Mongols having taken the island over.

Of course Iki Island is also the place where Jin’s father was killed and upon arriving there, Jin must face his past, and the mongols led by their new leader Ankhsar Khatun, aka The Eagle.

Who Is She? What Has She Done?

Ankhsar Khantun, aka The Eagle, is the leader of the Mongols under the Eagle Tribe which is practically a cult consisting of fanatical mongols she got fighting for her by having them drink her poison which either would brainwash them into becoming her shamans and fanatically devoted soldiers or driving them completely insane, eventually destroying their minds and leaving them as empty shell.

The Eagle and her forces would eventually take over Iki island, slaughtering and/or enslaving countless innocent people forcing the enslaved people her twisted poison, subjecting to agonizing Mind Rape before they would either die or their minds would be destroyed leaving them as empty shells.

After conquering Iki Island The Eagle would then attempt to extend her tyrannical reach in Tsushima where she has her forces massacre numerous villages there while subjecting the villagers to her horrific experiment with her poison driving many more into insanity and breaking their minds.

However Jin would come across one of these villages that were slaughtered by the Eagle’s forces and seeing the villagers either killed or suffering the agony of the poison where he would travel to Iki Island to defeat the Eagle and rid the Mongol’s rule over Iki Island.

However the Mongols would capture Jin who brings him to The Eagle, where she force him to drink her poison forcing him to relive the time where Jin watched as his father was killed in front of him. While Jin was able to escape he was still under the poison’s spell and under The Eagle’s influence allowing her to torment Jin and forcing to relive traumatizing moments, like his father’s death, causing Jin immense suffering.

After Jin who allied with the Raiders takes over Fort Sakai from The Eagle, The Eagle sets her sights on Annihilating the raider’s hideout planning to kill the countless innocent men, women, and children, taking refugee there and subject many more innocence her her horrific poison. Luckily Jin and his allies were able to stop The Eagle and her forces and after overcoming her poison was able to kill The Eagle and free Iki Island of her tyrannical rule.

Freudian Excuse? Redeeming Qualities?

All that’s known about The Eagle was that she led a tribe of mongols whom she brainwashed into becoming fanatically loyal to her through her poison where she and her forces would conquer Iki Island subjecting the islanders to immense oppression whether it be killing them, subjecting them to slave labor, or as test subjects for her poison.

She did mentioned in a message to Jin that she herself consumed the poison that made her powerful to convince Jin to let the poison control him, however the chances of that happening are extremely rare with the most occurring affect being the victims minds would deteriorate causing them immense pain until they are reduced to empty shells and those that do survive are under the permanent influence of the Eagle being her brainwashed slaves.

She does come across as polite to Jin and the citizen, but that’s purely Faux Affably Evil on her part using her charms to manipulate Jin and the islanders guards down before she subjects them to her poison, and actually doesn’t really care for Jin, the islanders or even her soldiers merely viewing them all as tools to expand her influence, showing no hesitation killing them should they turn against her, even taking sadistic pleasure in their suffering.

Heinousness

Now the main game already has four candidates and for good reason, but I think The Eagle can stand out due to how unique her atrocities not only massacring (in one instance has a pit completely filled with corpses)and enslaving countless people, but also being the only villain to commit Mind Rape so far and on a massive scale like hers.

In fact, the only one who has ever overcome her poison was Jin, with the rest of her victims still suffering permanent agony, even after The Eagle dies, and due there being no cure for her poison the only thing that the Raiders can do is ease them through their suffering and pray that they don’t end up as empty shells.

While it was also shown in the past that Jin’s father, Kazumasa ,had killed people and raided villages, thus earning him the moniker, The Butcher of Iki Island, but as said before The Eagle’s MO of mind raping her victims until they are either brainwashed or in a catatonic state makes her really unique, while the slaughter and oppressions of Iki Island was far more cruel and massive than Kazumasa could ever hope to be.

There is a side villain who I think could also make the cut, but for now I think The Eagle does more to stand out being the Big Bad of the Iki island expansion along with being one of the most personal enemies Jin’s ever faced having forced him to relive witnessing his father’s murder through her poison having a horrific and unique modus operandi.

Final Verdict

I will leave it up to you guys.

Edited by G-Editor on Sep 13th 2021 at 4:39:50 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#278985: Sep 13th 2021 at 1:07:18 PM

[tup]Eagle.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
therealjackieboy Ultimate Moral Compass from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Ultimate Moral Compass
#278987: Sep 13th 2021 at 1:19:21 PM

[tup] Zero and Eagle

"No running in the halls!"
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#278988: Sep 13th 2021 at 1:23:04 PM

Yes to Eagle.

Yes to Zero. One horrific crime, plus general evil on top of it. "When Zero refused to obey Azkedellia post-coup"...that supposed to be Cain?

Scraggle, will that Lupin villain be the last for now?

Edited by ACW on Sep 13th 2021 at 4:23:19 AM

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
DrUnknown Since: May, 2020
#278989: Sep 13th 2021 at 1:26:27 PM

[tup] to Sam, Zero, and Ankhsar Khantun/The Eagle.

G-Editor Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#278990: Sep 13th 2021 at 1:26:56 PM

Alright here’s my second candidate from the Ghost of Tsushima DLC Iki Island expansion Appearing in the Mythic Tale “Black Hand Riku”, the titular villain Black Hand Riku.

Who Is He? What Has He Done?

Black Hand Riku is an infamous pirate who terrorized Iki Island with his atrocities and cruelty killing countless people in horrific fashions. He favorite MO was carving up his victims before feeding him to his pet monkey while making his pirate crew watch this so that he can rule them over through fear.

One of his most horrific atrocities was killing a group of children on a boat be throwing them overboard, drowning them, but not before forcing them to watch as he skins their samurai protector alive before feeding him to his monkey.

Eventually his crew would become tired of his cruelty and would try to kill him, via poisoning his drink. Riku would drink the poison, but it didn’t kill him but made him blind, where Riku would respond back by setting his own ship ablaze burning everyone in his crew while he escape with all but two crew members ending up dead.

Riku was last seen alive in a cave in Iki Island where Islanders would try to go to retrieve his valuable armor only for Riku to kill and carve up their bodies once they enter his cave. However his reign of terror would come to an end, where Jin would go to that cave and kill Riku before taking his armor.

Freudian Excuse? Redeeming Qualities?

All that was known about Riku was that he was a sadistic pirate who ruled the seas surrounding Iki island through fear and cruelty. He did kept a monkey as a pet, but there was never any real instance that he truly cared for it and only feeding it human flesh in front of his crew to cull them all into fearing him.

The pet monkey does survive and follows Riku, but there wasn’t any evidence that he intentionally spared it, and its implied that monkeys are attracted to Riku as they are seen throughout Riku’s cave due to Riku worshiping a monkey god.

Hell even worshiping a monkey god doesn’t really come across as true devotion but out of a belief that the monkey god will make him powerful and feared throughout the seas, making him a selfish Psycho Supporter at best. So yeah Riku’s got no true excuse nor redeeming qualities for all the atrocities he commits.

Heinousness

For a side villain with limited resources, I think Riku is uniquely cruel and horrific to standout, with his MO of carving up numerous people and feeding them to his monkey along his killing a group of children by drowning them, and his own crew by burning them alive, With flashbacks to those events and mutilated corpses in Riku’s caves being shown along with two survivor being traumatized by Riku’s cruelty, making his crimes onscreen.

Final Verdict

I’ll leave it up to you guys to decide.

CrystallicWolf108 The Controversial Guy Since: Sep, 2021 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
The Controversial Guy
MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#278993: Sep 13th 2021 at 1:33:45 PM

[tup] to Zero (alright looking forward to all of them, especially the Stephen King candiate), Ankhsar "the Eagle" Khantun and Black Hand Riku.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#278994: Sep 13th 2021 at 1:34:25 PM

[tup]Riku

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#278995: Sep 13th 2021 at 1:36:12 PM

[tup]Black Hand Riku

[tup]Ankhsar Khantun

[tup]Zero

[tup]Sam

[tup]Rebecca

Watch me destroying my country
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
hegelvonaxel Since: Feb, 2018
#278997: Sep 13th 2021 at 1:43:11 PM

Yes to Tsushima ones, Zero and Nazgul Skeletor.

Ordeaux26 Professor Gigachad from Canada Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Professor Gigachad
#278998: Sep 13th 2021 at 1:46:01 PM

So I have found a bit of an odd one but one that I think will work.

What is the Work

Spider-Man (2000) is a Spider-Man video game adaptation and is widely considered one of the better Spider-Man games. However, we won’t be talking about the console version since that doesn’t have any qualifiers. However, I took a look at the Game Boy Color version and I think someone qualifies there, also includes the sequel.

Who is Doc Ock and What Has He Done?

Doc Ock is as per usual a Mad Scientist who wants to take over the world. To accomplish this he has a new plan he kidnaps several people from the sewers as well as both Venom and Carnage to experiment on them. The experiments are to forcefully fuse people with the symbiote so he can have a Slave Mooks army to use to take over the world.

When Spider-Man discovers what is going on and arrives he even admits that the people will have no free will. He also plans to fuse with a symbiote on his own but in his case has full control over it. He attempts to kill Spider-Man but is stopped.

He also reappears in the sequel Spider-Man 2: The Sinister Six leading the group called the Sinister Six. He orders the other members to track down and kidnap Peter Parker (who he doesn’t know is Spider-Man) however they instead kidnap his aunt May Parker to lure Spider-Man into a trap and kill him. He ends up defeated again and vows to beat Spider-Man eventually.

Does he have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Unlike most versions including the Console versions of this very game, this version of Doc Ock lacks any redeeming qualities being purely a power-hungry mad scientist.

I should probably address the obvious problem. Yeah, this is a GBC game and also pretty short. However, these are one of the few GBC games that have a solid plot and actual dialogue Doc Ock isn’t given much personality but he is established as power-hungry so he isn’t a GDV.

Does he meet the Heinousness Standard?

Doc Ock doesn’t have a massive amount of crimes but I feel he has enough to count. He tries to make a massive slave army using pretty horrible experiments on a bunch of innocent people to try and take over the world. We also get to see through Venom’s attacks that this will have destructive consequences. We don’t get to see everything heh does but the kidnappings are a major focus of the plot and he admits exactly what he wants to do.

There is nobody else to compete with everyone is working under his orders and most don’t even do anything super bad anyway, that includes Carnage funnily.

Final Verdict?

Leaning yes.

CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
TellAll111 Since: Jun, 2010
#278999: Sep 13th 2021 at 1:49:53 PM

After recovering from all the second jab side-effects, time for catch-up:

[tup] for the Surgeon, Ivan, Nui (tentative), Lew, Noah, Shino's mum (tentative), Kosigyn, Sturm, Smilas, L'Italien, Brainiac, the Witch of the Dark, Elynion, the Witch-King, Rebecca, Sam, Zero, Eagle and Riku.

[tdown] for Plasmus.

Cut Omar.

Powermaster201 The Emperor of Evil! Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
The Emperor of Evil!

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