During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Wasn't accusing you of such Snowy. It was a good faith proposal and there's nothing wrong with that. We are all however inevitably "selling" a candidate when we do an effort post on a character we personally believe counts (nothing wrong with having an opinion on YMMV). I was merely noting things I gleaned on him reading the comprehensive post—which you did a very good job on—spinning his candidacy. I mean no offence, simply that this is a work with a hell of a heinous standard and that really makes it time to bust out the fine-tooth comb and look through things.
Goku Black
I have returned to be here on and off after incidents. (Don't want to talk about it).
I'll ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Decibel and Reboot morning star, ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Dagon, abstain on Banshee.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Okay thank you 43. Sorry I took the criticism too hard. Yah I do understand the points made against him now.
Take care Miraculous
Edited by Snowy66 on Jul 17th 2021 at 10:50:56 AM
Dagon, seems to be mostly offscreen villainy and being somewhat outheinoused
@Snowy: don’t be too hard on yourself snowy, the heinous standard can be tricky to understand sometimes. I mean I recently ep’d Verone thinking he could make it only for him to be voted down due to only having one unique torture which horrific apparently wasn’t enough.
Edited by G-Editor on Jul 17th 2021 at 2:18:01 PM
Yeah to Durant, Sanford, and Morningstar. No to Dagon.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Scraggle, mind knocking off Murray and Strack today or tomorrow?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Yeah, don't be too hard on yourself. I've had to be told that recently, just try to take the advice to heart. That's what I did with the Banshee.
to the Banshee (I always wonder when the idea of the creature went from something that foreshadows death to something that actively causes death).
Okay thank you so much guys.
Pending write-ups:
- Lord Decibel is a DJ supervillain who uses his weaponized music to hold large crowds hostage and demand hefty ransoms from them. His mass murder attempts include: breaking off a landmass from the continent, causing an avalanche, generating a tsunami, and hijacking a train full of people and speeding the train to potentially lethal speeds.
- Tim Buktu poses as a hero, but in reality causes the endangering of lives himself, including setting boat on fire and an explosion. When exposed by Ben, he throws acid at the boy and ends up breaking the dam that are standing in where he tries to flee. Wanting revenge on Ben, Tim controls the boy using a voodoo doll and makes him commit crimes including attempting to drown a boat full of children. Claiming to have reformed, Tim remote controls a dragon to attack a town so he can pretend to save it, before attempting to murder Ben after he gets exposed.
- "Bright Lights, Black Hearts" & "The Charm Offensive": Michael Morningstar is a centuries old energy-vampire who has maintained his youth by draining the life force from his admirers. To maintain his support he poses as a teen actor playing a beloved character while being an Bad Boss to his production team. Jealous of Ben's attention, Morningstar exploits Gwen's feelings for him to find out how to defeat Ben. When most of his supporters leave, Morningstar is only assisted by Charmcaster as his one remaining admirer, but acts as an abusive Ungrateful Bastard towards her and only sees her as a glorified battery.
Edited by Snowy66 on Jul 17th 2021 at 11:42:11 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
So is that it for the Ben 10 keepers?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
- Darkman (novel/1990 adaptation): Louis Strack Jr. is the conscienceless CEO of Strack Industries and is ultimately the man behind Peyton's mutilation and transformation into Darkman. Strack is the one paying Durant to torture and slaughter his way through anyone who refuses to acquiesce to his corporate takeover of the city, from the mob outfit in the opening to Peyton and his innocent assistant. Strack has no compunction using Peyton's Love Interest as a hostage after having dated her himself, in the same scene he reveals he arranged for his first wife to die in a plane crash. In a storyline excised from the film, Strack resolves his differences with his own father by paying Durant to murder him.
- Alec Murray is one of the three masterminds, alongside Dunne and Arthur Hill, of the Frendo conspiracy. A "terminally basic" man who keeps his wife in the dark about his murderous appetites, Murray personally and brutally kills his way through dozens of innocent teenagers, and knowingly allows his stepdaughter Janet to get swept up in the Frendo hordes and die.
Uhhh... talking to Ravok. There are some issues (to say the least) with some of the Ben 10 stuff.
Showtime!
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
What's wrong?
Switching to a no to Dagon.
Edited by YobabyColin on Jul 17th 2021 at 3:02:52 PM
Ultimate Moral Compass
- Caged Fury (1989-1990): Sybil Thorn is the warden of the Honeywell State Prison for Women. In truth an actress in charge of a massive prison set, Sybil partners with a team of pornographers to falsely commit their models to her prison, where they’re raped by her and her guards into submission and auctioned off to potential buyers. Any prisoner who dares to escape her prison are either raped by her guards or murdered. After Kat and company release her prisoners, Sybil orders her guards to murder everybody to ensure no one escapes.
- Ilya Sokoloff is a Contractor working for the FSB with a history of being a serial killing sadist behind him. Having slaughtered numerous women, including the niece of his own boss Repnin, Ilya eventually grew out of these tendencies as a Contractor having decided it was best to murder his victims by asphyxiating their brains to make their deaths 'relaxing.' Killing many more people, Ilya attempts to abducts Suou Pavlichenko and July while murdering others as he desires.
- Lucius Aelius Sejanus was the puppet master of the vicious Emperor Tiberius in life, who ran the secret police and killed many thousands. After being defeated, Sejanus was embraced by a Lasombra Methuselah and spent centuries trying to see Rome annihilated. Later taking the name Marcus Vitel upon awakening in Washington DC, Vitel joined the Camarilla while pretending to be a Ventrue, later arranging the death of his lover Prince Marissa and all her supporters to seize control of DC. Assisting the Sabbat in the conquest of the East Coast from within the Camarilla as a traitor with countless dead, Vitel plotted to launch the nuclear arsenal in DC to devastate the world so he might shape it anew to his will.
to the Banshee. Dagon.
The wifi here sucks
Not to steal the proposal from Joseph but he proposed this image of Blight last page and it only got one vote. I like it so I'm posting it again now that the discussion has slowed down a bit.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Lighty, any more from World of Darkness coming up, or should I do Marcus Vitel this weak?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
RIP Toriyama
Uh yeeeeaaah before we submit them reboot!Ben 10 candidates, lemme just inform everyone of some details I found today while watching the episodes:
- Tim Buktu? Isn't played seriously. At all. What he gets up to is treated as threatening, but the guy gets distracted by fights to whine that he doesn't have a studio space to film in except his mom's garage, he screams like a literal little girl when in danger, he bemoans that said mother kicked him out, one of his episodes ends with him being stripped down to his underwear and kicked out of a building as "punishment" while he has cheerful banter with Gwen over her being on a podcast of his with zero enmity between them. He's a total joke and while again, his actions may have some menace, the character himself is a goof.
- As for Morningstar? He's played decidedly more seriously, but with the issue of...he has zero bodycount and at no point is his energy draining depicted as particularly horrible. He makes people feel sick and get bags under their eyes as long as they feel adoration towards him. The second they get distracted by something else they immediately snap back to normal with zero negative effects, one character is subject to a joke while being drained, and at no point is anyone's life said to be in danger nor Morningstar some serial killer with dozens of bodies. He drains adoration and while it makes people feel a bit of pain and sick, there's zero bad effects once he's done. His relationship with Charmcaster is played as a manipulative and abusive one where he drains her adoration and leaves her in obvious discomfort, but I don't think that alone puts him over baseline when—I reiterate—no one's life is ever shown to be in explicit danger from his draining.
So yeah, that's my thoughts. If they still go up, they go up, but I'm a firm 'No' to them both having now watched their eps.
Edited by Ravok on Jul 17th 2021 at 12:12:28 PM
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Showtime!
to Buktu and Morningstar
The Emperor of Evil!
I had my suspicions on Tim, now that's been cleared I'm gonna give both him and Morningstar a
Edited by Powermaster201 on Jul 17th 2021 at 3:11:52 PM
Guess it's always the heinous standard I struggle with. Looks like I still got more to learn