During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Judge Death, Azrael and Crimson Jack.
Mandarin (so he's Qin Shi Huang in this version? Interesting), Judge Death again, (we're the) Aristocrats, and Crimson Jack.
to Sheeta and Mandarin.
The wifi here sucks
Aristocrats.
Baun.
Yes to Mandarin, Judge Death, Crimson Jack, The Aristocats
to the Aristocrats and Braun
Current mood: sick of your shit
So this trio tries out for a talent agency, kidnapping and sadistically slaughtering for their amusement. When the talent agent asks what the act is called, the trio says "The Aristocrats!".
The Aristocrats is what I'm saying.
to Mandarin, Judge Death, Sister Dragon, Sister Serpent, Father Napoleon Horatio Silas Murder, and Karl Braun/Crimson Jack.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
Yes to the Aristocrats (another for Malcolm McDowell) and the Nazi Jack.
Edited by ACW on Jun 8th 2021 at 3:50:42 PM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
The Aristocrats and Karl Braun.
The Draftsman of Doom
Yes to the rich guys and Karl.
The Brazillian Dog!
The Draftsman of Doom
Caio, ~Tropers/futuremoviewriter and I have reserved Cruella here and on the Magnificent Bastard cleanup thread.
And since this is the second time someone has tried to hijack this particular reservation, I am adding the following note to the YMMV:
%%Discussion for CompleteMonster and MagnificentBastard is reserved by Tropers/{{futuremoviewriter}} and Tropers/SkyCat32 for June 11th. Please do not add any examples of the aforementioned items until then.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Jun 8th 2021 at 7:41:58 AM
Yeah to the Aristocrats and Crimson Jack.
Showtime!
to the Aristocrats and Karl
Goku Black
aristocrats
Today’s my 19th birthday.
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Happy Birthday
Aristocrats Are Evil and Crimson.
I wear no mask.
Happy birthday!
And yeah, hot damn you young whippersnappers are hard to keep up with! I'll try and be around more frequently, but seeing as I'm now 42 and not getting any younger - not to mention Real Life(tm) getting in the way - it'll still be somewhat sporadic, most likely.
I know this: if life is illusion, then I am no less an illusion, and being thus, the illusion is real to me.
Welcome back (again) buds and hbd to nwot there!
Barb / Temporary Kylo
Happy Bday!
I'm 18, missed the age stuff from earlier.
Yes to the Aristocrats
Edited by Snoketrope on Jun 8th 2021 at 7:58:14 AM
The First man
I have a concern about Matthew Trent from Black Mirror. I am concerned about if he qualifies due to the standards, particularly in his episode titled Black Mirror: White Christmas.
As I’m sure many of you know, Black Mirror is a deconstruction of futuristic sci-fi technologies and tells us the potential problems with them. In this particular episode, it's about technologically advanced vision and virtual reality. (Throught the Z-Eye, people have, among other things, the option to block others. Meaning that person cannot see or be seen by the person blocking as they become blurred out by eachother. It also shows us virtual clones working as slaves for their owners.)
The reason for why he is listed as a CM is that for starters, he works for a company that creates "cookies", a device helping the owner to prepare and control the devices in their house to their will (such as cooking breakfast for them while they are sleeping). Now, the cookies contain a virtual, yet sentient clone of the owner who does all the work. Matt's job is to convince the clones to accept their state of being by essentially torture them by accelerate their perception of time and force them to stay in isolation for several months to make them willing to work as slaves for their owner.
Next up, Matt also runs an illegal dating guide service by having access to his clients eyes and being able to see his view while giving him some pick-up lines. Unknowing to the client is that he also has an audience watching them just for perverted fun. When Matt's client is killed by his schitzofrenic date, his only concern is to remove the evidence of him being involved but is caught off guard by his wife who also blocks him from her and their daughters life.
Making a deal with the police, Matt makes a copy of the convict Joe's mind and places it inside a cookie and has himself virtually appear inside of it. When Joe tearfully to Matt his guilt (namely, that his ex cheated on him and he accidently killed her dad in a fit of rage) Matt just jumps up cheering as he successfully made the deal with the police. They let him go but he still recieves a punishment that he is now blocked by everyone in society, so he is blurred out and nobody can see him nor can he see others. Meanwhile, the cops are toying around with the cookie containing Joe's clone and accelerates his time-perception with 1000 years per minute meaning he will be stuck in there for a million years.
Mitigating factors
Now, the reason for why I doubt Matt qualifies is because of the standards. There is no doubt he is a complete sociopath and total prick. He is essentially just a single employee in his completely legitimate company, and the torture he puts the clones into is essentially his role in that company. Meaning he is just a cog in an entire clockwork. Thus he fails the heinous standard in that regard.
He is also vastly out-heinoused by the aforementioned cops themselves who makes Joe goe through a million years of isolation just to torment him; while Matt had "only" made the clones he tormented at work go through several months at most.
Furthermore, while you could argue that Matt deserved his fate by being blocked by everyone , it is played in a sympathetic light by the narrative:
https://youtu.be/_dXqugxU1sk
In conculsion, I doubt Matt qualifies as a CM because he doesn’t cross any boundaries made by society (except for that illegal dating service incident, which alone isn't heinous enough), is out-heinoused by the cops, and has an Alas, Poor Villain moment by the ending. Is he a 100% sociopath? Definitely. But is he a 100% Complete Monster? Probably not.
Edited by Enigmatic_Mastermind on Jun 9th 2021 at 1:52:05 AM
I wear no mask.
Thanks! Also, belated thanks to the others who I hadn't responded to the last time. Sorry about this.
to Mandarin, Death, Rob Zombie Aristocrats, Crimson Jack.
Also, add me to the tally of people who like Zombie's music (been a metalhead for over 3 decades)... but his films, not so much.
Also also, holy shit Dark Mirror is bleak if that's the type of cases we have to check out. I really gotta start clearing my backlog of stuff to watch.
Edited by Paireon on Jun 8th 2021 at 11:10:58 AM
I know this: if life is illusion, then I am no less an illusion, and being thus, the illusion is real to me.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]")
Aristrocrats (three more keepers under Zombie’s belt) and Braun.
"No running in the halls!"