During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Welcome back Polar!
It looks like Malleo's only other CM was from Lord of Vermilion.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
The Dark Priest himself
Guess I will add Zaboera to my to-do list then
I think Iike Gundam and Dragon Quest too much
Welcome back Polar!... well, technically this is our first meeting, but I'll join the welcoming committee ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
The Moron
Speaking of that, so I just got a message from someone on fanfiction.net claiming that they’re a friend of Malleo’s, and they’re claiming that his other EP was apparently plagiarized from Wikipedia. They tried sending a link to the EP but it’s not working, so I’ll take a look in a bit and see if this claim is accurate.
An Eldritch Troper
Yes to Pwami and Cypher.
Speaking of Dragon Quest, got anything to say about Vearn? I saw that Malleo had deemed Vearn as not a CM because of info from Villains Wiki but since he is in the same work as Zaboera, I hope that Tadi gives a comment about this as well.
Humanity is defined by its absurdity, and I am no exception.
I think Lighty has persuaded me into a ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
for Cypher. He kills 3; 4 if you count Tank.
Edited by k410ren on Apr 21st 2021 at 9:28:59 AM
"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
Pwami and Cypher. Welcome back, Polar!
The Moron
Okay, I found his other EP - Kaburagi Kark from Lord of Vermilion: The Crimson King - and compared it to the anime's Wikipedia article, and here's just all the plagiarism that I could find:
"his wires blood armament that form together into a massive scythe"
"hallucinate in a binding spell, which paralyzes him from using his blood armament and causes him grief and guilt"
"Nonetheless, Kark uses his blood armament to impale Jun, who then turns into a blood crystal"
"Kirk's requiem absorbs the audience into red mist produced by the keystone, turning them into a giant Titan familiar"
"leading Kark to stab them both in the stomach" (he changed "stab" to "wound" to get around this)
"Chihiro solely faces Kark, who summons Jormungandr to fight Chihiro. Although Chihiro manages to wound Jormungandr, Kark stabs Chihiro and plummels him to the ground." (yes, they even copied and pasted a spelling error on "pummels").
"Chihiro reawakens with the will to survive, easily defeating Jormungandr."
(Can you tell I'm putting my education degree to good use?)
And in general, the entire EP reads like they just summarized the wikipedia article without really considering how it looks, like when the article says "leaving Yuri in shock" and Malleo wrote "leading to Yuri being in shock". I'm not convinced he actually watched the source material, and I propose we cut both of their candidates pending reevaluation.
Woagh
Cut the plagiarized candidates for now.
NOISE IS CALLING, PICK UP PHONE
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Ugh...that's not good.
Anyway, I've not read the material, and I'll leave Gregor and the two Bastard Bastards for others, but lemme try and trim this:
- Rorge is a Serial Rapist and Serial Killer—especially of children—and the worst of the Brave Companions, his cruelty even exceeding their leader, Vargo Hoat. Freed along with his companion Biter, Rorge signs on with the "Bloody Mummers" after Arya Stark saves him from certain death. He offers to repay her by anally raping her with her own wooden sword, only stopping when she threatens him with Jaqen H'ghar. After the Brave Companions capture Jaime and Brienne, he attempts to rape Brienne, threatening to inflict Facial Horror if she screams. After Hoat's death, Rorge leads a band of brigands into Raid on Saltpans, during which women were raped and mutilated, children were butchered in the arms of their mothers, and almost the whole town was massacred. He personally kills twenty men and rapes a twelve-year-old girl, tearing her body with his armor, then giving the girl to his men who mutilate her further. Upon encountering Brienne again, Rorge expresses a desire to "cut off her legs and set her on her stumps so she can watch me fuck the crossbow girl." The girl in question is ten years old. Additional material indicates that he is also the reason why Biter is the way he is-—finding an orphan boy, Rorge removed his tongue, filed his teeth, and made him fight dogs with only his new fangs. A consummate He-Man Woman Hater and Child Hater, and a pedophilic serial predator in a world full of warriors, Rorge earns the enmity and disgust of everyone he meets.
- Rorge is a Serial Rapist and Serial Killer—especially of children—and the worst of the Brave Companions, his cruelty even exceeding their leader, Vargo Hoat. Freed along with his companion Biter, Rorge signs on with the "Bloody Mummers" after Arya Stark saves him from certain death, to which he responds by threatening to sodomize her with her own wooden sword. After the Brave Companions capture Jaime and Brienne, Rorge attempts to rape Brienne and threatens to injure her further if she screams. After Hoat's death, Rorge leads a band of brigands on the raid on Saltpans, resulting in the massacre of nearly the entire town. Rorge personally kills 20 men and rapes a 12-year-old girl, mutilating her then giving the girl to his men to mutilate her further. Upon encountering Brienne again, Rorge expresses a desire to cut off her legs and have her watch him rape a 10-year-old girl. Additional material indicates that he is also the reason why Biter is the way he is—finding an orphan boy, Rorge removed his tongue, filed his teeth, and made him fight dogs with only his new fangs.
Edited by ACW on Apr 21st 2021 at 9:49:50 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
I'm actually okay with Joffrey and Ramsey being that size. Their both iconic and long running villains..
Gregor though being bigger then then is weird....
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Show!Gregor is 232, which is only like 13 words fewer than either Bastard Bastard (both are 245).
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Gregor commits a lot of crimes in the books even though he is a minor character. In fact some of his crimes like smashing the head of a 4-year-old boy and killing his mother or the fact that the people who live on his lands constantly go missing are omitted in his write-up.
Edited by WatTambor on Apr 21st 2021 at 6:56:03 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Over 300 words, and it STILL leaves stuff out??
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
The Moron
I’m pretty sure GRRM was like “I need more crimes, let’s get the Mountain in there”, cause book Gregor at least earned the long write up
for Pwami and Cypher. If I'm not too late to vote on the DC Video Games image, I'll vote for Darkseid.
There is also a moment where Gregor decides to remove the eyes of all the previous scouts in Jaime's army after they fail to report about Robb's attack. He then gives the eyes to the next scouts as a warning about what would happen if they fail like the previous ones.
Edited by WatTambor on Apr 21st 2021 at 7:03:40 AM
Goku Black
Also cut Kark since his ep contains outright copying like that.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Cut Kark and Zaboera.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Speaking of Gregor: Should Show!Gregor's writeup include his actions as "Robert Strong", or did he lack agency then?
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Alright, those seem worth mentioning; I'd not be opposed to a rewrite (and maybe remove some of the current entry?).
Edited by ACW on Apr 21st 2021 at 10:08:24 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
The Moron
By that point he's a mindless zombie - the only thing he retains is his hatred for Sandor - and as k10 mentions below he doesn't really do much in the first place, so I'd say better safe than sorry and not include it
Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Apr 21st 2021 at 10:12:44 AM
Showtime!
Cut the plagarized candidates
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
I'm not sure as to Show!Gregor's agency in the latter half of the show; there's something still there in the last season when he chooses to disobey Cersei and Qyburn (killing the latter) for a chance to take a shot at his brother, but during the latter half of the show, Show!Gregor doesn't do much, primarily killing on Cersei's orders.
Edited by k410ren on Apr 21st 2021 at 10:11:45 AM
"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
That part about the eyes happens in the very first book and Gregor is not a zombie yet.
The part where he kills a boy and his mother happens because he and his men had previously tortured to death the boy's father and seeral other people (this is mentioned in his write-up) and the boy wouldn't stop crying which annoys Gregor and his men. He is not a zombie in that instance.
Edit: Sorry, I thought that you were talking about the crimes I had listed.
Edited by WatTambor on Apr 21st 2021 at 7:15:19 AM
Yes to Cypher. Welcome back, Polar!