During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Goku Black
Don't think I got a repose
This is an awful entry and definitely needs a rewrite
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Dude seems like a keeper, but yeah, needs a rewrite.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Woagh
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to Afton's rewrite.
Fair, but I think we should keep the "being burned alive and tortured in his dreams" and "driving one to suicide" parts, given that he was alive, and driving someone to suicide is heinous. And also remove the "tries to corrupt Elizabeth" part given that it's pure speculation.
Woagh
Y'know what? Can we just leave Afton alone until Security Breach comes out? I don't wanna be constantly debating about this guy until then.
NOISE IS CALLING, PICK UP PHONE
Not familiar enough of the Asian Saga to weigh in.
Edited by Beast on Mar 27th 2021 at 7:54:43 AM
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
This entry seems way too big for a dude from a single game, so try to trim:
The Original:
Mass Effect: Andromeda: The Archon of the Heleus Cluster is the commander of the kett forces waging war with the native angara, whom he's been slaughtering, enslaving and experimenting on for decades. The most disturbing crime the Archon facilitates is exaltation, a process where species are converted into new kett. Those who learn of it treat it as the worst form of genocide, breaking a person down and destroying everything they are in order to turn them into the same fanatical monsters they fought against. When races from the Milky Way appear in Andromeda, the Archon is excited about the prospect of a multitude of new races to exalt. To this end, he captures the Salarian Ark and begins running tests on them, such as harvesting their organs while they were still alive, or committing Cold-Blooded Torture on them for information. He eventually attempts to shoot down the Ark and the thousands of Salarians within instead of allow them to escape. Obsessed with the Remnant technology known as Meridian, the Archon plans on using its immense terraforming capabilities to force entire races to surrender to exaltation, or else he'll use Meridian to murder their worlds. However, during the final fight, the Archon becomes so enraged at Ryder's efforts that he rescinds the offer entirely and just decides to commit galactic genocide out of petty spite. The Heleus Archon doesn't even have the excuse of just serving the kett empire like other Archons in other systems. His unsanctioned obsession with Remnant technology, and cutting off of communication back to his superiors, strongly imply that he's working only for his own advancement, and his right-hand-woman the Primus betrays him out of fear of what he's planning to do to their home. Even in a genocidal species that views all non-kett life as barely sapient, the Archon of Helius stands out as a monster among them.
My rewrite:
Mass Effect: Andromeda: The Archon of the Heleus Cluster is the commander of the kett forces waging war with the native angara, whom he's been slaughtering, enslaving and experimenting on for decades. The most disturbing crime the Archon facilitates is exaltation, a process where species are converted into new kett by breaking a person down and destroying everything they are in order to turn them into the fanatical monsters. When races from the Milky Way appear in Andromeda, the Archon captures the Salarian Ark and begins running tests on them, such as harvesting their organs while they were still alive, or committing Cold-Blooded Torture on them for information, before he attempted to shoot down the Ark and the thousands of Salarians within. Trying to get his hands on the Remnant technology known as Meridian, the Archon plans on using it to force entire races to surrender, threatening to destroy their worlds if they refuse. During the final fight, the Archon rescinds the offer entirely and just decides to commit galactic genocide out of petty spite.
The wifi here sucks
Him being burned alive and tortured in his dreams isn't a necessary addition, it's interesting information but it add neither context nor crimes that the original one lacks. Regarding the suicide, the only reason I didn't mention that in my rewrite was because he exists inside of the game, it's unclear how aware he is of the outside world and we don't usually include ramifications to character's crime that they aren't aware of (like the bit I removed from Channard a few pages back). Personally I just don't see the point of a rewrite right now with the new game on the way this year, I just think we should save all changes to him till Drunknown covers the game's release.
I like the Archon rewrite
Edited by papyru30 on Mar 27th 2021 at 8:56:16 AM
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Archon rewrite.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
This and it risks turning into an Single-Issue Wonk like last time.
Edited by Beast on Mar 27th 2021 at 7:58:39 AM
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Please add the Archon rewrite to the Drafts.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Do we have THAT many??
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Yes. Five incarnations of Bison + FANG, UDON!Vega and Dr. Sadler.
Professor Gigachad
In that case, I would say one should be made.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
The Emperor of Evil!
I think Akuma himself might be a candidate in the cartoon, he's more sadistic and evil than in the games I believe.
Edited by Powermaster201 on Mar 27th 2021 at 11:37:25 AM
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
I should note that one version of Bison is from what basically amounts to a fan film. That is only listed on the Power Rangers page because it not only had permission from Hasbro and the games original creators, but direct involvement from several Power Rangers creators as well as being made to tie directly into said game. It however did not have that with Capcom as far as I know beyond them allowing them to appear in the original game and a mention in the. I am not sure that is enough to allow it to be listed on a Street Fighter page.
Edited by Bullman on Mar 27th 2021 at 10:48:00 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Due to lack of votes, i repost it here, that i made an Image Picking thread for SCP Foundation.
Cartoon!M. Bison, otherwise known as the guy responsible for the "YES! YES!" meme.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Though now that I mention the above. I was wondering if we should move that Bison to either the video games or web original page. Because with all that approval it kinda of makes it hard to say fan work. However on the flip side the company that made it is mostly fan film creators. So I personally would keep it there, because it does feel like a fan film.
Edited by Bullman on Mar 27th 2021 at 10:53:58 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
I'm good for most of the rewrites but Afton... I'm tired of the obsession with this franchise and cramming in every goddamn thing he does. If there is a factual inaccuracy correct it while changing minimal wording and leave his crimes alone. This is getting ridiculous and needs a moratorium, I'm tired of the pointless tinkering just because people think the villain is so epically evil or whatever.
Edit: Reading through the debate it appears there was no inaccuracy. RK, leave it, do not try to touch this one anymore.
Edited by 43110 on Mar 27th 2021 at 11:57:41 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Works like that where they have Approval of God go to both fan works and the franchise page. See: Sonic the Comic – Online!; that Transformers unlicensed work that was written by Simon Furman himself; or that Highlander fan film.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Actually you know what rewatching it. I am going to move that we cut Legacy Wars Bison. Let's look at his crimes. He takes over a city. Tourtures a hero. Tries to kill a group of heroes. The only thing that really pushes him over is that the city is him planning to trade his world to Rita and the extremely short length. Which I don't know if is enough.
Edited by Bullman on Mar 27th 2021 at 11:00:53 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Woagh
43, nobody thinks he's "The evil to end all evil" or whatever, it's just that people assume that we're missing something from him thanks to this franchise's reputation. Stop assuming we're worshipping the guy or whatever. Sorry, it's just that I'm just kinda tired of FNAF getting these long, drawn out conversations. And I love the series, so that's saying something.
Even then, I am inclined to agree for RK to stop constantly rewriting Afton. The last thing I want is this forum to treat FNAF like the next My Little Pony.
Edited by DoodSlayer136 on Mar 27th 2021 at 9:20:08 AM
NOISE IS CALLING, PICK UP PHONE
Where did I name you Dood? Don't be a problem and get off my back.
papyru did a good job making the current entry. I don't see why it's only seen as disrespectful to question a rewrite when you can just as easily make the case constantly telling him his wording or crime listing is insufficient constitutes the same issue.
Do you have a link to the EP? That does sound lacking.
It will see less discussion if we agree to let his writeup be. Opting to decline a rewrite is inevitably just reactionary to the proposal which initiates the debate. If things need to be explained again and again, civility is gonna decline.
Edited by 43110 on Mar 27th 2021 at 12:16:29 PM
I've seen the easter egg and I still don't think there's enough worth mentioning right now, it's still all very vague what exactly is going on with her and I don't think we should add anything about her until the new game is released so we don't end up posting something wrong.
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon