During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
The Draftsman of Doom
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I assume he would have mentioned if that was the case.
No, Baphoment's the only one who can count. Lucien has a pretty solid Freudian Excuse (he wants to avenge his village that was hunted down by monster hunters), even if it falls into Disproportionate Retribution. Meanwhile, Tiamat can't count because 1) she's outclassed in heinousness by Baphoment, an individual lower on the resource scale, and 2) she had a one-sided affection for Baphoment, expressing outrage when he's killed.
Edited by DrUnknown on Sep 16th 2020 at 8:41:14 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Baphoment.
Ultimate Moral Compass
Baphoment
So here's what's going on:
The last chapter for Chimamire Sukeban Chainsaw: reflesh was recently translated almost two weeks ago. And yes, there's a contender. Would any of you mind if I discuss this one a few days earlier? Like say, later on today?
"No running in the halls!"
#BoomSilverTheVampire4Lyfe
How does Sandbox.Complete Monster Discussion Dates work? I saw Sonic the Hedgehog (IDW) on there and the last time this work was discussed on this thread was December 2018.
Okay... I don't think any of the villains are heinous enough to be a Complete Monster. Mimic, a total psychopath, would've likely qualified, it it weren't for Tangle pleading Whisper to spare him.
Edited by PrincessPandaTrope on Sep 16th 2020 at 11:32:16 AM
Content Warning: My posts may involve my actions dealing with R-rated or Not Safe for Work content. Same for my edit history.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Fine with me.
Reflesh? Japanese Ranguage, or pun?
Edited by ACW on Sep 16th 2020 at 12:32:17 PM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Ultimate Moral Compass
The Japanese cover says "reflesh", so I consider it both.
Edited by therealjackieboy on Sep 16th 2020 at 9:44:07 AM
"No running in the halls!"
The Draftsman of Doom
How many weeks since the end of the character's arc has it been? You need to wait at least 2 weeks, Panda.
Edit: Unless you have consensus to do it early.
Welcome to the thread, btw.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
That was for Panda, not Jackie.
Addendum: I don't mind an early discussion, Jackie. Missed your post.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Sep 16th 2020 at 12:57:11 PM
Hence why he's asking. If he gets permission from the thread...
I'm saying yes
The Draftsman of Doom
Additionally, I may or may not have a candidate today; I am waiting for input from other tropers via PM.
And now...
- The Losers: Captain William Roque is the second in command of the titular unit of CIA commandos. Jaded and selfish, Roque eagerly accepts a quarter-billion-dollar bribe from the shadowy power-broker Max to betray his comrades and become his right-hand man in his plot to create his own nuclear rogue state to destroy the Middle East. Roque reveals his true colors when he frames the other members of the team for a drug-smuggling scheme actually perpetrated by Max, even shooting the agent he called to arrest them to ensure they will be killed in retaliation. He then methodically kills every witness to Max's scheme and hijacks weapons-grade plutonium from French transport ships, again making sure to Leave No Witnesses. Using the plutonium to manufacture over fifty nuclear bombs for Max's plot in the Ghost Town of Pripyat, Ukraine, Roque captures the Losers' pilot Pooch and attempts to dismember him with a pair of pliers before the hacker Jensen manages to turn the tables on him.
@Princess Panda Trope The hero attempting to have someone spare the villain does not automatically disqualify the villain. I think it was said that Mimic wasn't heinous enough to qualify.
#BoomSilverTheVampire4Lyfe
Only Whisper did decide to spare Mimic.
Okay, how do you search this topic thread? I can't find an easy way to, and this thread is very large.
Content Warning: My posts may involve my actions dealing with R-rated or Not Safe for Work content. Same for my edit history.
I mean, the hero sparing the villain doesn't disqualify them either. The only concern I'd have about that turn of events is whether we'll be seeing Mimic again.
#BoomSilverTheVampire4Lyfe
Found the post evaluation Mimic.
Guess I'd have to agree. Killing a small group of people is nothing compared to turning 99% of the world population into zombots who will decay in 200 years.
Content Warning: My posts may involve my actions dealing with R-rated or Not Safe for Work content. Same for my edit history.
As a heads up Panda, I'm the one who reserved Sonic IDW on the Discussion Dates page, so I'll lead discussion for anything about it. And yeah, I went over Mimic. Not heinous enough to count right now.
It's actually likely we'll see him again. A new mini-series called Bad Guys is coming out, and Mimic appeared on a couple of the covers that were revealed.
Edited by Awesomekid42 on Sep 16th 2020 at 1:43:29 PM
Ah. That's cool. Dude's Creepy Awesome by Sonic standards and I'd be enthused to see more of him.
The Draftsman of Doom
After discussing with other tropers, I have decided to bite the bullet.
What is the work?
Nabucco is a Verdi opera based on the story of Nebuchadnezzar (the titular Nabucco) and his conquest of the land of Israel. Many liberties were taken with the story, including a coup arranged by a High Priest of Ba'al, replacing Nabucco with the latter's adoptive daughter, Abigail.Who is the High Priest of Ba'al and what has he done?
The High Priest of Ba'al is first introduced informing Abigail that her (adoptive) sister, Fenena, has released Hebrew prisoners. The Priest subsequently informs Abigail that he and his men have spread the rumor that Nabucco has fallen in Battle and encourages her to take the throne. Later, the Priest informs Abigail of Fenena's conversion to Judaism, and suggests that she and the Hebrews be exterminated, presenting a document for Abigail to sign as a death warrant for the Hebrews. In the final confrontation, the Priest attempts to carry out the death warrant via human sacrifice to Ba'al but is interrupted by Nabucco and his forces.Heinousness?
Nabucco himself stops short of exterminating the Hebrews, although he does viciously sack Jerusalem and take Hebrew prisoners and slaves as retaliation for his daughter being imprisoned. Abigail herself carries out the High Priest's suggestions, arranging for Nabucco to sign the death warrant for all the Hebrews, driven by anger over being rejected, as well as a healthy dose of ambition. She also imprisons Nabucco. However, the Priest enables Abigail's ascent to power, calls for the extermination of the Hebrews, brings Abigail a death warrant for the Hebrews, and tries to carry out the death sentences by human sacrifice. Seeing as no other human sacrifice is seen in the story except at the Priest's hands, I would say the Priest stands out at least where mass human sacrifice is concerned.Mitigating Factors?
The Priest is a self righteous, bigoted, hateful figure. He has no backstory which would make him at all sympathetic, he is clearly in control of his actions, and he seemingly cares about nothing but his own religious beliefs and prejudices. His loyalty to Abigail is an extension of his prejudice and self righteousness.Verdict?
I think he is worthy of discussion at the very least.Edited by SkyCat32 on Sep 16th 2020 at 3:17:18 PM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
As discussed, I say yes.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
『 』
Yeah to the High Priest
High Priest
@ACW, you gonna put the CIA duo on the pending page?
I looked an I think it’s been mostly yes’s
Edited by nwotyzal on Sep 16th 2020 at 1:21:11 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
What's their vote count? It's been all over the place.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
High Priest.
to Al Misurata, Baphoment and the High Priest.
Sure to Baphoment. Lucien or Tiamat herself getting EP'd?
Edited by ACW on Sep 16th 2020 at 11:37:17 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts