This is the thread we use to talk things over with people who have received a suspension notice. A lot of the time the notice goes out just so we can explain how seriously we take certain things, not because we want the person to feel bad and go away.
If you're suspended, give What to Do If You Are Suspended a read, then post here to begin your appeal. We try to respond to appeals in order via batch posts every few days. If a moderator has responded to your appeal, you will receive a notification in your private messages, even if you're suspended from PMs.
The Forum Rules
apply here.
Don'ts
- Don't be rude. Rule 1 applies here, too.
- Don't try to negotiate your suspension outside of this thread, such as by sending Private Messages to moderators or posting elsewhere. Such activity may be thumped or otherwise removed, and may warrant an additional suspension block if it keeps happening. All communications have to take place within this thread.
- Don't respond to other suspended users. This is a place for you to discuss your suspension, not others'.
- Don't post multiple times about your appeal if it hasn't been a few days since your last reply from us, since it makes it more difficult to compose responses. If you've posted, we're likely looking at it, and kindly request you to be more patient.
- Don't make another account to try and get around your suspension. This is called ban evasion and will get you bounced. (Again, read What to Do If You Are Suspended if you don't know what these words mean.)
Edited by Synchronicity on Jul 15th 2023 at 11:35:01 AM
Lost in Space
lifelover91 attempted ban evasion and has been bounced.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
@Synchronicity well I'd go ask about it in ATT. I wasn't trying to start an edit war or anything, so I'll definitely avoid that going forward
~Tropers/zarpaulus That happened with Omnidisciplinary Scientist as well — you thought the trope applied but because it wasn't actually an example, you failed to write a fully-contextualized writeup. Carefully reading the trope description and figuring out what parts need to be included in your writeup go a long way towards staving off misuse and shoehorns. How can we be sure you will do this in the future?
~Amour Le Fou — OK. See to it that this doesn't happen in the future.
~Tropers/kris27 Once again
you were previously asked:
"I won't do it" is not an acceptable answer because you haven't told us you know what it is and how to avoid it. If you're uninterested in answering that question, we cannot move forward with this appeal.
~YourEternalTroper — I think Sink Hole explains it quite succinctly:
The page goes on to list examples, such as irrelevant linking, links that don't explain how the pothole is related, potholing just for the sake of potholing, and hiding the "real" titles of works and tropes.
Is there something about the article that is unclear?
~Tropers/okthen789 — I see this issue
hasn't been satisfactorily resolved. We prefer you to actually understand where you went wrong rather than avoid a problem area entirely. Why don't you read TLP Guidelines and tell us in your own words what you need to start a draft?
~Tropers/227someguy OK, now let's talk about those offending entries:
- Playing Against Type:
- Kenichi Natsuki in spades.
- Senpai is more of a Lazy Bum who got mediocre grades in school than his previous roles.
- Typecasting: He tends to voice the most prominent bad guys the most, to the point where he wished to voice more good guys. He finally got his wish by playing Kenichi Natsuki in the Second Season of Re Zero.
Playing Against Type and Typecasting pertain to careers and would be acceptable to add to a creator page. However:
- The Playing Against Type entry is a Zero-Context Example with a Chained Sinkhole in the first bullet to boot. It does not explain what the typecast is and how "Kenichi" and "Senpai" are different from his usual roles.
- Typecasting does have context, but would probably benefit from elaboration on the specific bad-guy roles instead of a tangent about how this one role is different. It also has an inappropriate (since again, people aren't characters) Throw the Dog a Bone link.
Can you fix these two entries?
~Tropers/Braz — Not bad. All three examples sufficiently explain the trope. There's some awkward writing, but nothing that would immediately land you in the slammer. I recommend visiting GHWE to cover your bases.
To recap, over the course of your suspension we've covered:
- Zero-Context Examples
- How to Create a Work's Page
- Example Indentation in Trope Lists
- Tips on Grammar
Do you have any further questions about these policies (or others not listed here)?
~Another Gamer — The best way to do this is to not refer to other entries at all, and just explain the traits relevant to the trope at hand. Hypothetical example:
- Big Bad: Emperor Evilious is the overarching antagonistic force in the story. All the heroes' efforts are spent overthrowing his evil empire.
- Villainous Crush: Evilious sucks — see Big Bad — but he has a genuine romantic interest in Heroine.
Why rely on the Big Bad entry when you could just explain the "villain" part, like:
- Villainous Crush: Evilious might be an tyrannical emperor, but he has a genuine romantic interest in Heroine.
"Tyrannical emperor" is sufficient context for "villain", but you don't need to describe his villainous role and actions at length every time to describe Villainous Crush or other villain tropes.
This is also why we encourage using the most specific Sub-Trope in example lists, because you by design have to describe the supertrope anyway:
- Badass Normal: Leticia is a very well-trained martial artist who can defeat the magical enemies just as well as her boyfriend Horatio, who has superpowers.
- Empowered Badass Normal: Leticia is a Badass Normal (see above) who gains magic in Act II.
Unnecessary. This does it in half the bullets:
- Empowered Badass Normal: Leticia starts out as a very well-trained martial artist who can defeat the magical enemies just as well as her boyfriend Horatio, who has superpowers. However, in Act II she gets magic and incorporates it into her fighting style.
~Tropers/Dere — Your suspension is for uncommenting ZCE's without properly adding context
. This is concerning as it tells us you don't (or didn't) fully understand Zero-Context Example policy. Please expand these:
- Convection, Schmonvection: Lava schmava.
- Damsel in Distress: Amy
- Disney Death: Sonic, Amy, and Alucion
Hello I was banned a year back and I promise not to make the same mistakes again.
~Synchronicity
It does, yeah, I didn't really consider before that more specific tropes were created for the purpose of using them in the context of narrowing down details of the thing they're used with without excessive use of other tropes.
Was there something else I still need to do or can I get my edit suspension lifted now?
Edited by AnotherGamer on Aug 31st 2022 at 9:10:30 PM
The Digital
~Synchronicity.
No, I don't have any question about these pages anymore, but I will put any future edit on the GHWE forum.
~Tropers/Ominae You've listed Ask The Tropers and PM's but those aren't even half the options available to you on Edit War. What are the others?
~Tropers/Malady — I am sure we have already told you this but so we are on the same page:
- The goal of a disambiguation is to guide existing readers (wicks, inbounds) someplace. It is particularly pertinent if the page previously existed and had to be moved somewhere but less necessary if nothing was moved.
- As such, we are reactive about making disambiguations, not proactive. We don't want to make one until it is necessary. That means at least two existing works in that namespace. Film.Party Girl does not need to exist until at least one movie titled "Party Girl" exists in Film/. Film.Party Girl would not need to turn into Main.Party Girl until another work titled "Party Girl" in another namespace exists, like a video game or a comic book.
- If it's highly unlikely folks would be confused, like if it was just between a video game and a film, I personally wouldn't even make the Main/ disambiguation until a third work and just use "Not to be confused with" in their descriptions. We don't want to bloat Ambiguity Index.
- It is not a place to Red Link pages in hopes they will eventually be made. Please use List of Shows That Need Summary for that.
OK, I'll lift your PM suspension.
~President Brit Your suspension is indeed for Zero-Context Examples (and upon inspection, said examples are zero-context) in the Xenoblade pages, in addition to an edit reason that is snarky at best and accusatory at worst.
Which do you want to discuss first?
~There Aint No Mountain — Ask The Tropers is one option. However, Edit War also lists other places where you can get agreement or consensus for the contested edit, some of which might be more appropriate than ATT depending on the situation. What are they?
Edited by Synchronicity on Aug 31st 2022 at 1:39:13 PM
@Synchronicity: I could revisit the trope descriptions and make sure they fit before adding them to a works page in the future?
@Synchronicity the discussion page and D Ms, right?
Tea, Coffee and Hot Chocolate
@Synchronicity
Both is probably best as they hapoened at around the same time. You can see by my edit history that this is a one-off incident caused by a lapse in judgement.
Firstly I'll address the harsh and accusatory tone in my edit reason. I should have kept that to myself and not unnecessarily hurt someone's feelings. I did intend to delete my edit reason and expand on the edit before posting, but I accidentally hit enter instead of backspace on my phone keyboard (which for some reson submits the edit on mobile). I didn't go back to re-edit as I rightly thought the damage had already been done and it was getting late. Admittedly, I was a bit miffed by one of his zce reasons and I'll explain why.
(I don't know if spoiler tagging is kosher here, but if it isn't I'll put a warning that I'm mentioning a sidequest spoiler for Xenoblade 3 here.)
This was my edit to the Xenoblade Chronicles 3 - Heroes page:
- Creepy Monotone: When she is possessed by W, her voice lines change to this.
And this is rmctagg09's edit:
- Creepy Monotone: When she is possessed by W, her voice lines lose their inflection.
I believed that anyone who read this entry would know that "change to this" meant that the voice was a Creepy Monotone when it normally isn't. I dislike assuming that Viewers Are Morons.
rmctagg09's edit doesn't add any context and it's just a more awkwardly-worded description of Creepy Monotone. If my edit was zero context, so is his. This is why I thought he was being pedantic. He did say on the Ask The Troper thread that he argued why my edit was zero context and his wasn't, but I've been suspended from messaging so I haven't seen it.
I will admit my other edit was zero context and I should have elaborated to begin with. It won't happen again.
TV Tropes ruined Faust's life
~Tropers/okthen789 ICYMI. We are not moving forward with this appeal until you properly do what we are trying to get you to do.
~Another Gamer and ~Tropers/Braz — OK, I'll lift both of your suspensions. Happy troping.
~Tropers/zarpaulus — We'll hold you to that in your future troping.
Now we do have to address your 14 indentation notifiers. Your last one was in November and your recent edits seem in order indentation wise but 14 is a large enough number to warrant moderator attention. Do you have any questions about the Example Indentation in Trope Lists policy?
~There Aint No Mountain — Yes. You can also use Trope Talk, Wiki Talk, and check if the work/trope has any specific cleanup threads in the Projects forums. I will lift your suspension.
~President Brit — Well, note in the future that we won't tolerate further rudeness. Don't be a dick.
However, this example:
- Creepy Monotone: When she is possessed by W, her voice lines change to this.
is a Zero-Context Example. Specifically it's a partial-context one since being possessed is creepy, but you still need to describe the monotone, which "loses inflection" attempts to do.
That Administrivia page repeatedly advises against using "is this" as context. You can't just point to the title and expect it to be self-explanatory, especially since many titles don't fully encapsulate the trope. In fact, there's a whole section on that page about swapping out the title to test if you've written enough. We have a whole slew of creepy/evil voice tropes:
- Creepy High-Pitched Voice: When she is possessed by W, her voice lines change to this.
- Evil Sounds Raspy: When she is possessed by W, her voice lines change to this.
- Soft-Spoken Sadist: When she is possessed by W, her voice lines change to this.
- Voice of the Legion: When she is possessed by W, her voice lines change to this.
etcetera
This is not Viewers Are Morons, it's making sure nobody has to click read a whole other page just to understand what's going on.
Tea, Coffee and Hot Chocolate
@Synchronicity
I don't know anyone who knows what "inflection" means but not "creepy" or "monotone". However, since rules are rules I won't argue any further than that or dispute your judgement.
I do believe that's everything addressed and that there is no reason to keep me suspended any longer.
Edited by PresidentBrit on Aug 31st 2022 at 10:35:31 AM
TV Tropes ruined Faust's life
@Synchronicity: I think I’ve got the hang of the indentation rules.
No conversations on the page, use double-bullets only to list multiple examples from one work, if there’s an existing example on the page and you’re adding more separate the existing example onto a double-bullet point.
@Synchronicity My bad, I was under the impression that entries only count as ZCE if they just list the trope without accompanying it with words. Now I know better, they need to explain how the trope applies.
I hate spoilers
~Synchronicity In response to the entries:
- Kenichi Natsuki is this since he's shown to be on good terms with his wife and Subaru. The latter is subjected to a Secret Test of Character where illusions of his parents appear based on his memories of them, they all decide to share peas during a meal. There's even a scene where Kenichi gives Subaru a Cooldown Hug when the latter is showing his self-doubt in front of him.
Admittedly, I have very little knowledge of Senpai since I haven't seen The Night Is Short, Walk On Girl, and the wiki page doesn't have much information. I can't do that one.
He finally got his wish by playing Kenichi Natsuki in the Second Season of Re Zero.
Will this suffice?
Everyone look at my sandbox
Very well. If that's what it takes, that's what it takes.
Master of the Multiverse (He/Him/His)
@Synchronicity: All clear. So sinkholing is basically potholing gone wrong by adding unnecessary links.
Edited by YourEternalTroper on Aug 31st 2022 at 8:36:40 PM
Everything that lives is designed to end...
@Synchronicity
- There's also the trope article Discussion page and Trope/Wiki Talk areas.
So I've been notified of my suspension and it's been several weeks since it started. Am I allowed to return to active duty?
Hello, it appears that I have been suspended from editing. I am confused as to why and am willing to fix the issue as necessary. Can someone please help?
Don't make me destroy you. @ Castle Series
Lost in Space
~Thor Ingerman — Suspensions do not expire; you have to show that you know what the problem is and how to fix it. You have been suspended for sloppy editing, including Conversation in the Main Page, Example Indentation, and grammar. All of these are things that you have been sent notifiers for via PM, so either you are ignoring them or you don't understand the problems.
Please take a look at the policies I linked above and see if you can explain what you're doing wrong, preferably in the context of actual edits you've made, such as this one.
~Thecommander 236 — Ah, yes, let's talk about this edit you recently made to YMMV.One Punch Man, tacking on this completely irrelevant and nattery statement:
That's not even getting into the fact that the Japanese don't care about political correctness or that many people, especially in America, are tired of gender/sexuality politics and just want to read/watch a fun story without all the controversy.
This really sounds like you've got an "anti-woke" bug up your ass, and if you're going to be that sort of person, perhaps you'd find yourself more at home on a different website. The people on the other end of the constant barrage of racism and gender/sexual normativity in society don't get to "read/watch a fun story" without it being shoved in their faces.
Edited by Fighteer on Sep 1st 2022 at 8:25:22 AM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
I never made this edit to that YMMV post.
Lost in Space
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
My last post replies to two different people. If this is your level of comprehension it's going to be a long time before you get editing privileges back.
Edited by Fighteer on Sep 1st 2022 at 9:06:22 AM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
~President Brit — If you dislike the way an example is written you can always rewrite it or add more context (eg. does a character lampshade it by saying they sound like a robot?) . The point is that just "is this" is unacceptable and you have to work around it.
Before we release you we'd like you to fix this low-context example you added to Characters.Xenoblade Chronicles 3 Moebius. As written, it can apply to Heroic Sacrifice or a subtrope; there's specific context needed to push it into Suicide by Cop territory. Post your rewrite here.
- Suicide by Cop: Part of her Batman Gambit involves her dying in Mio's place during a Homecoming ceremony.
~Tropers/zarpaulus Good enough. I will lift your suspension but please be careful to avoid Zero-Context Examples in the future.
~Tropers/Dere — ...Yes. However, you were asked to rewrite those examples so they do have context. Consider it proving to us that you really understand the Zero-Context Example rules. Post your rewrite here.
- Convection, Schmonvection: Lava schmava.
- Damsel in Distress: Amy
- Disney Death: Sonic, Amy, and Alucion
~Tropers/227someguy
Some fixes before that's wiki-ready...
- If you can't expand the "Senpai" example, can you rewrite the Playing Against Type example to fall in line with our rules on Example Indentation in Trope Lists and Word Cruft ("is this")?
- Your rewrites also have some grammar errors. Can you spot and fix them yourself?
~YourEternalTroper and ~Tropers/Ominae — Yes. I will lift your suspensions.
I'd also like to add that rmctagg09 misrepresented the order of events in the Ask The Troper page. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt as he may have gotten things mixed up.
I went to bed after making the offending edit, so I never saw their reply to my reply. I still haven't, as I have been suspended from using the message function. The way he phrased his original post makes it look like I made the edit in retaliation to his reply, which I haven't as I didn't open it.
Edited by PresidentBrit on Aug 30th 2022 at 8:26:59 PM
TV Tropes ruined Faust's life