This is the thread we use to talk things over with people who have received a suspension notice. A lot of the time the notice goes out just so we can explain how seriously we take certain things, not because we want the person to feel bad and go away.
If you're suspended, give What to Do If You Are Suspended a read, then post here to begin your appeal. We try to respond to appeals in order via batch posts every few days. If a moderator has responded to your appeal, you will receive a notification in your private messages, even if you're suspended from PMs.
The Forum Rules
apply here.
Don'ts
- Don't be rude. Rule 1 applies here, too.
- Don't try to negotiate your suspension outside of this thread, such as by sending Private Messages to moderators or posting elsewhere. Such activity may be thumped or otherwise removed, and may warrant an additional suspension block if it keeps happening. All communications have to take place within this thread.
- Don't respond to other suspended users. This is a place for you to discuss your suspension, not others'.
- Don't post multiple times about your appeal if it hasn't been a few days since your last reply from us, since it makes it more difficult to compose responses. If you've posted, we're likely looking at it, and kindly request you to be more patient.
- Don't make another account to try and get around your suspension. This is called ban evasion and will get you bounced. (Again, read What to Do If You Are Suspended if you don't know what these words mean.)
Edited by Synchronicity on Jul 15th 2023 at 11:35:01 AM
Synchronicity: Fair enough.
Edited by ChrisDV on Aug 17th 2022 at 11:21:49 AM
Moral Support Expert
Sorry, poor wording. What I meant is that I should never use just one ** or *** indentation.
- Go Mad from the Revelation: A variant; when the warps are further combined with others they remember new backstories to accommodate their new selves, but are also aware that they just came into existence. The fusion of Weapon Hex and Captain Peace affects their combined self so severely that she has to lobotomize her past from herself to be functional. It gets worse when they are further fused together and struggle to function at all.
- Wingdinglish: Laura speaks in the Lost Tongues which, written out, are just English with the letters replaced by various symbols. It appears to be the same language used by Scarlet Witch and Loki for their spells. Unlike in Weapon Hex, the translations here don't line up. Here's a cypher that lines up with examples found in the Weapon Hex comic.
- Composite Character:
- The entire point of the Warped universe, introducing a few new ones into the mix (and, in Arachknight, another mashed-up universe, this time between the Squadron Supreme, and the heroes of The New Universe.) New arrivals include Tiny Monster (Ant-Man and Hulk).
- Exaggerated when Ghost Panther and Iron Hammer become Ghost Hammer, Arachknight and Soldier Supreme become Spider Supreme, and Weapon Hex and Captain Peace become Weapon Peace. Taken Up to Twelve when Ghost Hammer and Spider Supreme become The Hammer Supreme.
Pika is the bombchu!
I don't launch very often, but I know that you have to put it on indices and crosswick and all that.
mudshark: I don't expect Nate to make sense, really.
Well, being honest, I just got overexcited with the episode and with the image I really really wanted on there. Now however, after this suspension, I really don’t wanna make the same mistake again. At this point, I just won’t change anything anymore. Now, if I make the same mistake again, I would accept being permanently suspended. I’ve learned my lesson.
I would like to find out what led to my suspension and what my next steps are, if any, for resolving this. Thanks.
For a trope to be approved for NRLEP, it has to have at least a 2:1 voting ratio e.g. if 20 people up vote and 10 people down vote. The crowner option also has to be up for at least a week. If the ratio is exactly 2:1, or slightly higher, a few extra days are given to see any extra votes appear.
No, I fucked up, and I apologize. I was just... really angry, that day, and, well, two youtubers I enjoy a lot did have pages, so when I saw them gone, my stupid brain was like "Oh, well let's remove, say, another youtuber, it's the same anyways".
I'm not gonna ask for edit permissions back. Not sure I deserve em. But... your choice, really.
Lost in Space
Desdar300 attempted ban evasion and has been bounced.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Is there a reason why my account is still suspended?
How sweet it is
outlander2012 has deleted their account, so that's an instant fail on their test...and a permaban upgrade.
she/her | TRS needs your help! | Contributor of Trope Report
(she/her)
~Chris DV We just haven't gotten back to you yet. We have lives and other things to do on the wiki. I'll release your suspension.
~Sergeant Bane: Those are correct.
Now, I want you to us what's wrong with this entry you did on Iron Hammer and then try to fix it. There's some zero context in indentation chain that we would like you to fix as well. Feel free to use Example Indentation in Trope Lists as a resource.
- Ring of Power: Having already conquered the Ten Realms, he wields the Ten Realm-Rings.
- Energy Weapon: The Vanaheim Ring shoots blasts of pure concussive force (roughly the same as getting hit by a car). And the Asgard Ring shoots Odin-power beams.
- An Ice Person: The Jotunheim Ring shoots a cold ray.
- Imagination-Based Superpower: The Nidavellir Ring shoots a "matter-building beam".
- Light 'em Up: The Alfheim ring shoots a white light blast, while the Svartelheim Ring shoots a black light blast.
- Master of Illusion: The Niffleheim Ring.
- Playing with Fire: The Musphellheim Ring shoots fire blasts.
- Shock and Awe: The Migard Ring.
- Super-Speed: The Heven Ring grants a super-speed aura.
~Tropers/Puppetwan Alright, let's up you don't end up here again then. I'll release your suspension.
~Mechanicalman 450 That's correct. You seem to understand how things work now. However if you do any unilateral changes without discussion like that again, you will have a harder time getting your editing privileges back. Is that clear?
~Nate the Great - Once again, you have shown to us that you haven't bothered to even look at TLP Guidelines. If you actually read that section, you'd know that the launch requirements involve more than indexing and crosswicking. As you have yet to actually do what we have requested of you, your TLP suspension is now indefinite.
~scooter You have suspended for continuing to struggle with indentation despite receiving 2 prior indentation notifiers.
I would like you to read Example Indentation in Trope Lists and then do the following for these badly indented examples you have added to the wiki: From Retronym
- Snail Mail (once e-mailing was invented).
- Earlier, surface mail in contrast to air mail.
- Virtually all the classical Roman Emperors used several regnal names, and almost never used regnal numbers. Until well into the Byzantine era, the giving of a single name (and regnal number if necessary) was almost always retrospective.
- True of the Romans in general, contemporaneously and in retrospect. For example, since daughters received only the family name, a girl would be known as (say) Julia until the arrival of a second daughter, in which case she would retroactively become Julia Major and her younger sister Julia Minor.
- Likewise, Roman politicians very often had the exact same name as their fathers or uncles and other ancestors further back. Nicknames were sometimes used to demarcate father, son, or both (e.g., Q. Caecilius Metellus, father and son, were distinguished retrospectively after the son rose to prominence by the nicknames Numidicus and Pius). Otherwise Roman historians fall back on adding the year in which the person held the consulship—in this case, Q. Caecilius Metellus (cos. 109) and Q. Caecilius Metellus (cos. 80)—or another magistracy if the consulship was not attained.
- Literary figures with the same name but separated across time tend to be retroactively distinguished by means of the Major/Minor principle, routinely if somewhat misleadingly translated into English as "the Elder" and "the Younger". The most best-known applications are Cato Major and Minor (the former also being known as Cato the Censor); Pliny Major and Minor; and Seneca Major and Minor.
Pika is the bombchu!
Sufficient age, clear description, ten examples, twelve wicks, discussion done. When's the last time I did an insufficient launch? I grant you I have a bad record of TLP drafts, but launches are something else.
mudshark: I don't expect Nate to make sense, really.
Yes, that is clear. I will neither add any trope to nor remove any trope from NRLEP without discussion.
Edited by Mechanicalman450 on Aug 19th 2022 at 8:44:14 PM
Kendrin Diaz
ADD. ME. BACK. RIGHT. NOW!
Tropey the Troper
Lost in Space
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
No. In fact, you have been bounced for refusing to engage with us.
Thanks for replying. I definitely see that the first violation, under Snail Mail, is forbidden as being a lone bullet under an example. Given that both examples pertain to Snail Mail, the result should have been two examples with a colon under the trope Snail Mail.
For the second violation, can I confirm my diagnosis? It looks like it falls under the problem of having an example with examples under it. In which case there should be a single bullet for "The Romans", and all four examples should be under that as different examples from the same "work". I totally get that. The other possibility that occurred to me as less likely is that you're reading it as them not being not separate examples; in which case the violation is that it should all be one paragraph, broken by line breaks. Either way, I fully understand that example with sub-bullet examples is not allowed.
I'm not sure I understand your instruction "I would like you to read Example Indentation in Trope Lists and then do the following for these badly indented examples you have added to the wiki." Can you clarify what you mean by "do the following"? Is it okay that I have a stronger understanding of the rules, or are you asking me to create a corrected dummy version here to show that I understand correct procedure? I'm happy to comply, I'm just not sure what "do the following" referenced in this case. Thanks.
Edited by scooter on Aug 18th 2022 at 6:10:27 AM
Moral Support Expert
I can do that. However, I copied and pasted those directly from Infinity Wars (2018) (I think I fixed some of the grammar) so any indentation mistakes made weren't actually mine. My only mistake was copying and pasting it as is.
- Ring of Power: Having already conquered the Ten Realms, Iron Hammer wields the Ten Realm-Rings. The Vanaheim Ring is an Energy Weapon that shoots blasts of pure concussive force (roughly the same as getting hit by a car), the Asgard Ring is another energy weapon that shoots Odin-power beams, the Jotunheim Ring shoots a cold ray, the Nidavellir Ring shoots a "matter-building beam", the Alfheim Ring and Svartelheim Ring shoot a white light blast and a black light blast respectively, the Niffleheim Ring creates illusions, the Musphellheim Ring shoots fire blasts, the Midgard Ring shoots lighting, and the Heven Ring grants a Super-Speed aura.
Edited by SergeantBane on Aug 19th 2022 at 8:27:33 AM
Edited by kris27 on May 27th 2023 at 1:39:11 PM
~Nate the Great — We did not ask you to tell us the launch requirements because you have a bad track record with launches. We asked you because over the years and even in this very suspension thread you have demonstrated a reluctance to learn — or demonstrate that you had learned — the TLP Guidelines. When repeatedly asked you kept giving low-effort responses until we told you your suspension was indefinite.
That history and attitude don't inspire confidence in us. We are willing to give you one more chance to use the TLP. But if you break the rules there again, that'll be it for you. Is that clear?
~Mechanicalman 450 — Glad we got that out of the way.
We notice you have three notifications for Zero-Context Examples on your record, with the most recent being last week. As this is your second suspension, you will have a more difficult time getting privileges back if you are suspended again. Do you have a question about our ZCE policy?
~Tropers/scooter — Not going to speak for Macron, but your suggested corrections to the indentation are correct. Whether to use bullet points or single paragraph for related items is often a judgement call. However, we discourage giant walls of text in writing, so breaking the Roman example up into:
- Romans
- Roman citizens
- Roman emperors
- Roman politicians
- Roman literary figures
...would be preferable to smashing them all together into one paragraph, unless some truncation occurs. Does that make sense?
Now, can you correct these wrongly-indented examples on Magi Babble and post your corrected versions here?
- In Patricia C. Wrede's Enchanted Forest Chronicles the magician Telemain speaks almost entirely in Magi babble when describing how various spells and enchanted objects work. He becomes irate when people tell him to explain things with less technical terminology, usually claiming he can't think of a simpler way to explain whatever he's talking about precisely. The only exceptions occur when he is asked to explain things normally by Kazul, the gigantic King of the Dragons, whose intimidating appearance inspires him to somehow find a perfect clear, much easier to understand explanation.
- Morwen, who has a similar level of experience, naturally understands his terminology. But weirdly, Mendanbar also understands, despite having an intuitive grasp of magic sketchy with technicalities at best, while Cimorene, who is very magically literate and has invented or modified several spells, is always at sea with what he says.
- Cimorene admitted her knowledge of magic was limited because her parents were quick to cut off her secret magic lessons. Besides, it's more that Telemain just talks really fast and only Mendanbar, who is used to it from his elf steward, can catch what he's saying, and he's also far more knowledgeable about all sorts of magic as the King of the Enchanted Forest is than Cimorene, whose talents tend to be more practical than magical.
- Morwen, who has a similar level of experience, naturally understands his terminology. But weirdly, Mendanbar also understands, despite having an intuitive grasp of magic sketchy with technicalities at best, while Cimorene, who is very magically literate and has invented or modified several spells, is always at sea with what he says.
- This comes up quite often in the Sword of Truth series. In the earlier books, the in-world magic system seems fairly standard for a fantasy series; i.e., one uses their "gift" to achieve the desired results. After perhaps the third or fourth book, the author does in the wizard with an ever-increasing amount of magispeech to explain an ever more convoluted system.
- Earlier, in a scene in Blood of the Fold, a character's Magi Babble is interrupted and it is explained (via more Magi Babble) that the character he's talking to already knew everything he was telling her.
~Sergeant Bane — That's...fine. Other options would be:
- List Playing with Fire, An Ice Person etc. on separate (*) bullet points, explaining the powers of each ring.
- Separate that out into multiple second-level bullet points describing each ring, but without listing the individual tropes.
The important things are that all tropes should be on the (*) level, and you should never have a single (**) or (***). Do those rules make sense? Do you have any other questions about the indentation policy?
~Tropers/kris27 — That's a well-contextualized example of Based on a True Story now.
Now we have to move on to the gist of your suspension, which was that in addition to uncommenting Zero-Context Examples without adding context (we really don't allow this), you were also Edit Warring. If someone makes an edit to one of your edits that you dislike, and you add it back, you are edit warring already.
You were previously asked:
Moral Support Expert
To answer your questions in order:
Yes.
Not off the top of my head.
Pika is the bombchu!
You say "low effort", I say "extremely cautious." I don't want to make things worse, and if I let myself babble that's a likely outcome.
I promise to not create any more drafts without consulting the guidelines.
mudshark: I don't expect Nate to make sense, really.
She/Her
I was suspended a couple of months ago and have been treating it as a break from editing, as well as using the time to research what exactly happened on ATT and also observe the appeals and responses here. And go over the site rules in general again, especially as referenced in the suspension reasons here.
I was suspended because I took part in an edit war on the Awesome Music page for Final Fantasy XIV, over enforcing a grammar rule of the site (that singular words always get an S after the apostrophe even if the word ends in S or Z), which is the sole exception to edit warring listed on the Edit War page. It turns out that the rule, which had been in place since before I became an editor here several years ago, had been changed only two weeks beforehand, of which I'd been unaware. I had thought the other editor simply didn't know the correct rule. Since I'd encountered that with other users before, and the rule had been the same for so long, the possibility that it had recently changed didn't occur to me and I didn't check.
In the future, I will double check such rules before enforcing them just in case they have been changed since the last time I saw them, and also so that I can cite them directly via a link to the page with the rules on them and send that to the other user rather than inefficiently relying solely on edit reasons to communicate.
In this case, I'd been reluctant to engage directly because the user in question seemed to be displaying ownership of the Awesome Music pages by removing several people's edits on those pages specifically, so I didn't look forward to the prospect of a conversation. But if I had bothered to track down the grammar page in order to reference it to them (and thus seen the change) instead of hoping they wouldn't revert it again after I mentioned the rule in my edit reason, it would have saved me trouble in the long run. But this site's grammar rules have always been strict and I hadn't realized it was even possible for them to *be* changed.
Edited by NOYB on Aug 20th 2022 at 2:01:54 AM
- Should I undo the ZCEs that I created, once my suspension is released?
- I am guessing that these examples that I created below count as ZCE, don't they?
- Big Guy, Little Guy: The big guy to Lyle's little guy.
- Big Guy, Little Guy: The little guy to Loopty's big guy.
- Other than the above, I currently do not have any other questions.
Edited by Mechanicalman450 on Aug 20th 2022 at 1:34:52 PM
All I can say is yes to not bothering other people, with the main trust to that claim being now I know this situation in my case isn't a metaphorical death sentence.