Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_down_emote.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Jules, ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Yozo
Goku Black
ming
Caesar
Yes to Ming there
Gonna reserve Starfield for myself and Scraggle.
Edited by Ravok on Aug 13th 2023 at 1:34:07 AM
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
BTW, looks like Shelob is only in The Two Towers.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
for Salzella
for another Fanfic Palpi. So this is basically the same the plot as in the movies except in a Fantasy World? Not very creative if you ask me.
for Billy.
for Shi You Ming
“Can we have Naraku?”
“We have Naraku at home!”
for Yozo
Edited by NTG on Aug 13th 2023 at 2:30:45 AM
Not the Eye
Another one I almost forgot about from Saga of Skywalkers
What has Tarkin done here?
Grand Moff Tarkin is High ranking officer in the empire whose doctorine helped in building Death Star. When weapon was finnaly ready Tarkin has it used on Jedha and surounding setlements, before taking control from the director Krennic. Eventually he used weapon to destroy scariff citadel where Imperial military plans are stored, killing all rebels and Imperials there.
After princess Leia is captured, Tarkin threats to use Death Star on her home country Alderaan after ordering Vader to torture her didn’t work, only to do it anyway when she gives false information (not that he knew it at the moment). With Alderaan utterly destroyed he orders Leia terminated, only to let her and crew of millenium Falcon escape to track them to Rebel base at Wollf Yularen’s suggestion after they verified there are no rebels in Dantoine.
Tracking them to Yavin, Tarkin prepares to destroy it while planing to have drink after rebbelion is obliterated. Only for rebels to destroy Death Star and kill Tarkin and rest of Imperial High command.
Reddeming Qualities?
One reason I almost didn’t propose him is because naration Notes that he took no joy in destroying Scariff. However he then immediatelly coldly Notes that all Imperial deaths there are firmly on Krennic’s back while showing no true hestitation to doing it. When he comes to Alderaan he shows no problem with obliterating entire country even thought ,as far as he knew, he got what he wanted from Leia. All other things we see from Tarkin points to his feeling about Imperial lost at Scarrif being simple pragmatism, like him having all Imperial trops evacuated from Jedha before it is destroyed.
He also prevented Krennic from destroying entire county Jehad is in because he wanted “statement not manifesto”, only to utterly obliterate Alderaan for pretty much no reason.
Othervise he does have vague line about mutual respect beetwen him and Vader which is dark Lord obeys him, but it isn’t shown or developed basides being explanation why Vader defers to him on Death Star.
Heinousness?
He uses superweapon to obliterate entire country and plans to do same to all other nations that defy the Empire. Throw in Jedha and Scariff, he is good even with Palpatine’s fleet and Starkiller base in mix.
Conclusion?
With his only possible moment of regret being small moment he immediatelly moves on from and blames Krennic for while doing it.
I think keep, anybody else?
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Sure to Tarkin.
I moved the page to Saga of the Skywalkers - A Fantasy Retelling..."The" is in the title before "Skywalkers".
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Another Star Wars classic. I think this guy is only like second runner to Palpantine in terms of CM consistency.
to Tarkin. Him not taking joy in something is hardly redeeming... The guy's a bore.
Tarkin, that bit about taking no pleasure doesn't seem like remorse, just stating he's not a sadist and not being a sadist isn't a requirment
Here's another Dragon Ball one from me (Aren't I predictable?)
Well actually, this one is from a less predictable source. It's technically from the OG Dragon Ball era, as in when Goku is still a kid.
EP will be for Lucifer, the Big Bad of the anime movie Dragon Ball: Sleeping Princess in Devil's Castle.
What is the work?
Before the days of Z which dominated the series with energy attacks, power levels, and changing hair color. During the prequel series, OG Dragon Ball, was more of a lighthearted martial arts manga/anime, with a young Goku striving to become stronger through training.
This movie is set at the time when Goku first seeks out Master Roshi for training, as well as meeting his to-be lifelong best friend Krillin for the first time. Much like in canon, Roshi being the Dirty Old Man he is, declares that he wouldn't train them for free and his price is for the boys to bring him a hot girl. However diverging from canon, Roshi has a very specific girl in mind: the legend of the "sleeping princess in the devil's castle" and sends the boys to retrieve said princess for him.
Now onto the guy who owns the castle...
Who is Lucifer and what has he done?
Lucifer is a demon king who rules, with a vampire-like appearance, who is implied to be thousands of years old. He rules over an army of demons from within his Devil's Castle.
Within his castle lies the Sleeping Princess, which contrary to public belief, is not an actual person but a mystical diamond that be charged and channel moonlight. Lucifer had discovered the Sleeping Princess and charged it with moonlight for hundreds, possibly thousands of years. By the present day, he just needed one more full moon to charge the Sleeping Princess to awaken it at maximum power. With this he then intended to use the diamond to power a cannon which he intended to use to destroy the sun, plunging the world into eternal darkness.
Goku and Krillin soon arrive at the Devil's Castle in search of the Sleeping Princess, while Goku's friends (Yamcha, Bulma, Oolong, and Puar) also follow Goku there due to looking for him. However Bulma's plane gets attacked by Lucifer's minions who end up capturing the girl. Soon Bulma awakens within the castle and is greeted by Lucifer, who invites her to join him and his men for dinner. He however doesn't disclose the fact that she is intended to be their dinner. After taking her to the grand hall, Bulma finally realizes the truth when Lucifer's minions approach her with a giant syringe, intended to drain her of blood for them to dine on. She is bound into a chair terrified, with Lucifer's goons ready to plunge the syringe into her heart.
Bulma ends up being saved by Goku and co. barging into the hallway, having been fighting their way through Lucifer's army. While Goku and the others beat down many of the monsters, ultimately they end up getting overpowered and captured. Lucifer specifically orders Goku and the others not be killed, as dead prey didn't taste as good. The heroes are then encased in rock to prevent them from intervening.
By this point the Sleeping Princess has been charged by the full moon and 'awakened'. Lucifer decides to have Bulma bear witness to him firing the cannon at the sun. Fortunately due to the full moon, Goku transforms into his Oozaru form and breaks out of the rock, before his friends cut off his tail to return him to normal. Just as the sun begins to rise, Goku and co. rush in to attack Lucifer. Lucifer fends them off and manages to activate the cannon's firing mechanism. Bulma quickly tells Goku to stop the cannon or the sun would be destroyed. So Goku fires his untrained Kamehameha and knocks the machine off course, and ends up flipping around to point at Lucifer, where he proceeds to get hit with and disintegrated by the cannon's blast.
Goku's Kamehameha blast ends up destabilizing the whole castle and the heroes rush out just before the tower crumbles.
Heinous Standard?
As we know from the likes of Cooler, the movies are set in an Alternate Continuity to canon. This holds true for the OG Dragon Ball movie trilogy too, which are set in its own continuity and never made it into Z era (That is to say no Frieza, Cell, Buu existing in this continuity). The heinous standard is substantially lower, with none of that planet destroying every Tuesday stuff.
For the OG Dragon Ball heinous standard, I'd say Lucifer's plans of destroying the sun is as high as it gets (Cooler did something similar).
EDIT: While the Japanese sub does not explicitly state the sun's destruction will cause people to die, the dub has Bulma outright exclaiming that humans cannot survive without the sun.
Mitigating Factors?
He initially puts on a gentlemanly facade towards Bulma, but it's quickly revealed to be Faux Affably Evil with his true colors being revealed where he is shown to take sadistic glee in the thought of consuming her blood.
He does have a lot of demon/monster minions, who he isn't an outright Bad Boss towards and does greet politely. But at the same time he never shows any sign he cares about their well-beings. Many of them end up getting brutally injured by Goku and co., with at least one of them getting killed by being eaten by a sea monster. Yet he never displays signs of caring that they come to harm.
Past that, no Freudian Excuse or agency problems so to speak.
Final verdict?
Bet you didn't think it was possible to find a CM from OG Dragon Ball era? Well here we are.
Edited by Snowy66 on Nov 28th 2023 at 3:28:23 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I'm...unsure. I know it's OG, but the franchise still has Frieza, Cell, Moro, Zamasu, and the Cinderella trio.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
None of those guys exist in this continuity. This is a full clean slate on the heinous standard.
Not the Eye
I am okay with taking it as it’s own thing (or at least measurimg it only by original series standard), but fact that we have no real indication of his plans beyond destroy the sun gives me pause.
Lean
Goku Black
Uh. Even for the OG anime. This sounds unimpressive compared to king Piccolo and his To Create a Playground for Evil. Plus it sounds like his plan is Just not gotten into enough to explain what it will do.
Lucifer.
Edited by miraculous on Aug 13th 2023 at 7:01:07 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Lucifer. Sounds too small potatoes when Piccolo did worse in OG.
Edited by Mr-ex777 on Aug 13th 2023 at 10:11:51 PM
It's not really elaborated in the sub, but in the dub it's stated he desires to bring about the "Reign of Darkness" where demons will be free to run rampant and terrorize humanity.
Here's a quote:
Honestly it's unclear if Piccolo even exists in this continuity. Many characters are adapted out in this movie timeline like the Pilaf gang and the Red Ribbon army.
Edited by Snowy66 on Aug 13th 2023 at 7:36:22 AM
Not the Eye
- Berserk (2016):
- Griffith, the Hawk of Light, was once the ambitious leader of the mercenary Band of Hawk, obsessed with gaining a kingdom, and is Guts’s best friend. Griffith sacrificed the whole Band of Hawk to the demonic Godhand to join their ranks, with the only survivors being Guts and his lover Casca, whom Griffith has raped to the point of insanity. Griffith and the rest of the Godhand manipulate a long suffering man into becoming their servant and sacrificing the entire city of St. Albion so Griffith can be reborn on a material plane and usher in the Age of Darkness. The newly revived Griffith presents himself as a messiah to the invaded kingdom of Midland, gathering an army of humans and demonic Apostles to lead them to war against the Kushan Empire while sending his Apostle minions to kill the kindly witch Flora. He is a manipulative and power-hungry traitor whose beauty hides utter depravity. When Griffith comforts Guts at the resting place of their fallen comrades, he makes it clear that they mean nothing to him.
- Slan is the only female member of the Godhand and specialises in carnal evil. While working with the rest of the Godhand to reincarnate Griffith, she creates a twisted orgy cult that promotes rape and mass cannibalism. Slan corrupts a forest into Qliphoth, a dark and depraved place from which monster who slaughter villages and take women as sex slaves are created. Intrigued by Guts and his potential for violence, Slan manifests in front of him before molesting him and attempting to make him give in to his worst impulses.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Fixed.
Edited by EmperorGeode on Aug 13th 2023 at 7:36:03 AM
Goku Black
Should be "Slan is the only female member of the Godhand and specialises in carnal evil."
The current Implies multiple members of the Godhand do that. Just she's the only female member to do that.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Unsure on Lucifer so I'm going to abstain on the guy
But to Tarkin
Edited by G-Editor on Aug 13th 2023 at 11:44:00 AM
Shi You Ming, Yozo, and Billy. Never knew Brad Pitt played non-Durden villains. Count me as an abstain on Jules
Isn't it stated by Bulma that they need the sun to survive?
Ravok, mind if I hop on? I had that one reserved for years with BG 3
NVM, it does. Hmmm...
Edited by Mr-ex777 on Aug 14th 2023 at 12:47:55 AM
Edited by coolmaneditor on Aug 13th 2023 at 1:15:38 AM