Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Jopling and Sigan
Hi everyone!
You know, I've always wanted to find CM incarnations of iconic villains such as Darkseid or the Joker. I may have finally found some, but they are... very particular versions, to say the least:
What's The Work?
Have you ever wondered what would happen if the members of the Justice League and their Rogues Gallery were dinosaurs? What a dumb question, of course you have! Who hasn't?
Well, you're in luck, because that's the exact premise of the 6-issues comic book Jurassic League, which was released in 2022.
This comic takes place in a prehistoric jungle where early humans coexist with dinosaurs. Some dinosaurs are intelligent, humanoid, and have superpowers. The story follows the adventures of six dinosaur superheroes who must come together to save the world:
- Supersaur, an alien Brachiosaurus whose homeworld was destroyed when he was a baby and was sent to Earth to be raised by human parents.
- Bat-Walker, an Allosaurus whose parents were murdered in front of him when he was a child and became a brutal crime fighter as a result.
- Wonderdon, a Triceratops princess from the island Trimyscira who rides an invisible Pterodactyl.
- And a trio of superpowered dinosaurs named Aquanyx, Flashraptor and Green Torch.
Who Is He and What Has He Done?
Darkyloseid is... an alien Ankylosaurus and the Big Bad of the story.
Darkyloseid comes from an unknown world and has traveled to countless planets in an egg-like form called "the Dark Embryo". On each planet he has visited, he consumed the life energy of most of the inhabitants and enslaved the others. He also selected the planets' most powerful beings and forced them to serve as his warriors (BTW, most of the planets appear to have been populated by intelligent dinosaurs). His goal is to consume enough life energy to hatch into his most powerful form.
After destroying many worlds, the Dark Embryo eventually chose to land on Earth as his final meal. There, he discovered that the life energy of humans makes for a very effective power source. His main generals, namely Jokerzard, Blackmantasaurus, Reverse-Slash, Atrocitosaurus, Giganta and Brontozarro, who are all brutal and bloodthirsty killers, were ordered to capture as many humans as possible for him to consume. Over time, they brought what seems to be at the very least hundreds (if not moreso) humans to their master (and some dinosaurs as well), including children.
One day, Jokerzard comes to the Dark Embryo severely injured, having been beaten up by the superhero Bat-Walker. He's allowed to have some plasma from the consumed humans to heal his wounds, and then he and the other generals are sent to eliminate those superheroes who dare oppose their plans.
During the battle, Blackmantasaurus gets injured so he abandons the fight to return to the Dark Embryo and ask him to heal him. However, the Dark Embryo grabs him and consumes him instead. Having followed Blackmantasaurus, the superheroes Aquanyx, Flashraptor and Green Torch then arrive, along with the captured Jokerzard and Reverse-Slash. Unfortunately, the Dark Embryo uses his Omega Beams to almost kill Aquanyx, and then grabs Reverse-Slash to consume him as well. Having consumed enough energy, the Dark Embryo finally hatches as his true form, the mighty Darkyloseid!
Darkyloseid declares his intention to annihilate all living beings on this planet, starting with the so-called "gods". He flies to the island of Trimyscira and starts to devour its inhabitants. Just before he could eat the queen, her daughter princess Wonderdon comes to challenge him. He overpowers her easily, but she is soon joined by the other superheroes Supersaur, Aquanyx, Flashraptor and Green Torch.
In order to have enough strength to defeat them all, Darkyloseid flies to the tribe of Metraaaghpolis, where Jokerzard is leading his horde of warriors to attack the humans. He then proceeds to devour his own warriors, including Jokerzard. Now stronger than ever, Darkyloseid manages to brutally beat all the superheroes. Bat-Walker arrives to help, but Darkyloseid grabs him and tries to eat him too. He is thankfully saved by Supersaur, who then decides to sacrifice his life to stop their enemy. He carries Darkyloseid into space and then flies at full speed back to Earth, causing a powerful impact that seemingly kill them both.
Mitigating Factors?
Okay, I know what you're all thinking, so let's address the Brontosaurus in the room: Yes, having DC characters reimagined as dinosaurs is a pretty silly concept. However, I don't think this comic is too goofy to have a CM.
While the story clearly doesn't take itself very seriously, I won't say it's overly comedic either. While there are a lot of Punny Names and some jokes here and there, there aren't that many. For the most part, if it weren't for the characters being dinos and the setting being a weird version of prehistoric times (and of course the Punny Names), the comic would be a typical superhero story (almost disappointingly so. They probably could have gone much crazier with such a concept, but ultimately they played it pretty safe).
The villains are mostly depicted as genuinely threatening, maybe a bit over-the-top but never to the point that you can't take them seriously (at least, not much moreso than the villains from your average superhero media). All the murders they commit are brutal, disturbing and Played for Horror. Overall, I'd say we have approved CM from far wackier works than this one.
Heinous Standard
He could make some of the worst incarnations of Darkseid jealous:
For starters, he has invaded a large number of planets to consume the life energy of their inhabitants, and then destroyed them. In case you're worried it's just Offstage Villainy, there is a scene where Brontozarro explains what happened to his homeworld and we get a quick flashback showing the Dark Embryo landing on an alien planet, and another showing the planet and its inhabitants being burned to the ground.
Then, he also has done slavery, and notably forced many strong warriors to serve him by promising to spare their lives, only to eventually kill them anyway once they Have Outlived Their Usefulness.
In fact, he's such an extreme Bad Boss than he makes regular Darkseid looks like Boss of the Year in comparison, as he killed 99% of his minions himself in order to become more powerful (and possibly because they disappointed him as well).
During his time on Earth, the Dark Embryo consumed the life energy of countless humans and dinosaurs, including at least two of his own minions. As Darkyloseid, he devoured some inhabitants of Trimyscira, then his entire horde of warriors (who are probably a few hundreds at least), and tried to do the same with the tribe of Metraaaghpolis and the Jurassic League. Not to mention that he made it clear that he was planning to annihilate the entire planet.
BTW, the way he consumes his victims is pretty unsettling, with even Bat-Walker being quite shocked by it.
Freudian Excuse?
Nothing to speak of. We don't even know if this version of Darkseid had Abusive Parents like the traditional version or not.
Redeeming Qualities?
Not really. The closest thing I can think of is that he compliments Wonderdon during their fight by calling her "bold" and telling her that she has "a stout heart ". However, he then beat her up and mocks her by pointing out that her body, however, is a disappointment.
Also, he initially seems to be enough of a Benevolent Boss to heal his minions when they are injured... but that's only when they are still useful to him. If they fail him one too many times or have Outlived Their Usefulness, he's more than happy to kill them himself to consume their life energy.
Ah, and he also thanks his warriors for their sustenance after devouring them. But I think it was more of a case of Evil Has a Bad Sense of Humor.
Verdict
Honestly, I really think Darkyloseid deserves a . What do you guys think?
Not the Eye
Honestly names are only sligthly sillier than normal names characters use or are actually named.
Darkyloseid gets (and the High Evolutionary for MCU gets for formality's sake)
I'm more surprised that Darkyloseid isn't a Terrifying Tyrannosaur considering that Darkseid is the God of Tyranny.
Darkyloseid
The Undercover Troper
Before the voting period expires, to Brawl Ganondorf. Though, I have a question. Since Ganondorf was originally a Zelda character, would his write-up be eligible for being listed on Monster.The Legend of Zelda?
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Nah, it'd be like that Red Skull from that Deadpool comic.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Dinosaur!Darkseid….. This comic exists apparently.
Yes to Anklyosaurus Darkseid. I would contest the idea that he'd "make some of the worst incarnations of Darkseid jealous" given how friggin' sadistic most versions of Darkseid are, but this seems to land fine for a Lighter and Softer "what if?" spin-off.
The Emperor of Evil!
Ultimate Moral Compass
Dino Darkseid
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to Darkseid.
I need clarification on Sigan: What makes him worse than the others who try and destroy Camelot?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Showtime!
To DINO DARKSEID
Lies and Violence!
Yes to dinosaur Darkseid.
What's the work?
Atop the Fourth Wall is where bad comics burn, hosted by Lewis "Linkara" Lovhaug as he reviews and criticizes crappy comic books. While also fighting robot doppelgangers from alternate universes, mad scientists, and Lovecraftian Outer Gods.
We have a few up already: Mechakara (the aforementioned robot doppelganger from another universe) and the abusive parents of his sidekick/living gun. But there's one that's been discussed before that I want to relitigate.
For some background: one of the main antagonists of the show is "The Entity," aka MissingNo. of Pokemon fame, who has evolved from a mere glitch in a video game into a multiverse-spanning elder god. Linkara manages to trick it into killing itself... but it has family.
Who is the King of Worms?
The weakest of the Entity's relations, the King of Worms was distinct from its brethren in that it could comprehend and feel fear. Its eldritch biology twisted in response to this alien feeling when it was first exposed to it, forever scarring its visage into the personification of fear itself.
Hiding behind a platinum mask, the King created a legion of clockwork soldiers, unable to feel fear, to loyally serve him in studying the emotion. Initially, it just wanted to master fear so it could heal its broken face, but it soon came to realize that if it could master fear, it could use it to master its fellow outer gods—to expose fear to beings incapable of knowing what fear even is.
In its first outing to master fear, the King came across a world that had never known suffering or fear. The King introduced nightmares to this world, driving the populace insane until the eventually massacred each other; the lone survivor the King gave the gift of restored sanity, making its first throne upon the crushed soul of this being that despaired over what he had done.
Centuries later, the King learned its most powerful sibling was tricked into committing suicide by a guy who reviews comic books online for a living. The King came to the conclusion that this man had what it was looking for—if it could know the fear that drove the Entity to kill itself, it could spread it to the outer gods, and then everything in existence—and began kidnapping and replacing Linkara's friends with his clockwork soldiers. Linkara himself, for some reason, proved immune to both being replaced and being mind controlled into the King's service, so he tricks him into activating a portal to the King's realm so his followers can just drag him in.
The King explains his motives and, after giving Linkara some time to review comic books (only so he can mentally prepare himself and make the process easier), begins "shredding his soul" to find the information he needs. Only to suddenly have the godly equivalent of a panic-induced heart attack and die.
Spoilers, but the Entity is alive. And inside Linkara. And very, very displeased at its upstart cousin for interfering in its game.
Mitigating factors?
So the reason the King was downvoted the first time was because of Offstage Villainy and failing the heinous standard compared to Mechakara. The Offstage Villainy makes sense; driving that one planet insane, while bad, was mostly regaled through a folk tale that had no impact on the rest of the plot. The heinousness, on the other hand?
This thing is very explicitly... well, a multiverse-level Scarecrow. It doesn't intend to limit the scope of its plans to just driving the other outer gods insane with fear; it wants to Mind Rape "every being, everywhere, forever." This is well above and beyond anything Mechakara plans.
As for it being too eldritch/alien? Nah, the King is able to hold lengthy monologues and discussions about its sadistic intentions, and differs from its siblings in that it fully comprehends human emotions. It knows full well what it is.
Easy keep, methinks.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Yes to Darkyloseid and King of Worms.
Edited by Bullman on May 19th 2023 at 12:28:09 PM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
King of Worms
Not the Eye
to Darkyloseid and King of Worms.
Also happy 600 page landmark everyone. Only 400 more to go and we’ll reach 1000
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Sure to the King.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
The Emperor of Evil!
to King of Worms.
Ultimate Moral Compass
Worm King
I believe I always supported/wanted the King of Worms to keep, so obviously yes to him.
oh and Devil Dinosaur Darkseid as well.
Edited by PolarPhantom on May 19th 2023 at 10:55:41 AM
Dinosaur Darkseid, Worm King
to Dino-Darkseid and the King of Worms.
Dino Darkseid. I actually thought about doing an EP, but it looks like someone beat me to it.
