Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
Lies and Violence!
You just said that on the last page. Please let it go.
No to Bowser.
Let's get these in reeeeal quick:
- Shanghai Triad: Boss Tang, leader of the Triads that Shuisheng joins, soon reveals the depths of his depravity after bloody gang conflicts. Retreating to an island, Tang shows little care for the victims of his triads. Upon discovering his right-hand man Song is plotting against him with his mistress Jinbao, Tang has multiple innocents on the island killed, massacres Song's men and buries him alive before promising that Jinbao's own execution is coming soon and taking a young girl from the island to raise her to be the new Jinbao.
- The Devil Conspiracy: Lucifer is a sadistic fallen angel out to turn mankind against itself to completely end the world. Bound by Michael at the dawn of time, Lucifer later works with a cult to find a suitable host. Killing countless women and children by failed possessions, Lucifer finally manages to take a woman named Lauren who is pregnant with the next Messiah. Torturing his brother Michael for spite, Lucifer has his own cult massacred and expresses his desire to bring hell to earth and annihilate mankind while in the body of the clone of Jesus for nothing greater than his "fuck you to daddy" in his own words.
No to Bowser, sadly.
I’m plotting my schemes wherever I go! They’re perfect in every way…
Not the Eye
- Kingdom Hearts 2:Chaos Storm: Solego the Chaos God is even worse than in canon. In the past, Solego destroyed countless civilisations and made lost souls his followers. Sealed away in the crystal, Solego’s followers seek to release him, ready to destroy anybody who gets in their way. After being freed, Solego travels to the Destiny Islands and turns all its inhabitants to stone. Solego plans to destroy all multiversal hot spots and trigger the destruction of all existence.
- Onyx Equinox: Tezcatlipoca is a celestial god intent on wiping out humanity. Seeking yearly sacrifices of great warriors in order for them to become his heralds, when Goddess Mictecacihuatl falls in love with Yaotl, Tezcatlipoca has Yaotl’s memories erased and promises to destroy him in Mictecacihuatl ever speaks of their affair. He makes a bet with Quetzalcoatl about the fate of humanity, with the winner getting all of the loser’s sacrifices. Tezcatlipoca sends Yaotl to monitor Izel, Quetzacatl’s chosen champion. Summoned by Izel alongside Quetzacatl, Tezcatlipoca tries to use every loophole to win the bet and kill Izel. Ultimately winning, Tezcatlipoca expresses joy at watching Quetzacatl slowly wither away before turning Yaotl into a normal jaguar and starting the slaughter of humanity. Cruel, petty and vain, Tezcatlipoca proves himself to be the worst of setting’s Jerkass Gods.
Solego I think should be put on the main crossover page since there are some Anime characters to not in the games.
Edited by EmperorGeode on Apr 19th 2023 at 7:57:51 AM
The Draftsman of Doom
Eh, not feeling Bowser.
Feels good, don't it?
Two for today...
The first:
What's the work?
The Circus of Hungry Clowns is a horror novella by Caesar Ruell...the circus is in town. Joe is taking his kids to see the clowns. except soon his kids go missing, and there are secrets that the clowns have...
I give you the leader of the circus: Crooks.
Who is Crooks?
The master of the circus and a fiendish little clown. In truth, the "clowns" are a separate species of carnivorous monsters who live in the mountains and woods. Tired of eating sheep and goats, Crooks discovered that humans are positively delicious and led a group of fellow clowns out with long practice to form the circus. Long, long practice and some illusions ensured that the traveling circus was able to stop in locations so the clowns could feed to their heart's content.
Lacking any sort of abilities with the crowds, Crooks recruits ringmasters by kidnapping their loved ones and holding them hostage. "Volunteers" are called from the crowd, but with special illusions, the seemingly harmless tricks on the children are actually brutal, fatal murders so the kids are taken and eaten later. with some kids kidnapped and saved as meals for the road. This is what happens to Joe's kids, and Joe soon discovers them missing.
Crooks keeps one clown named Bruiser as an abused slave, and it's heavily implied that if a ringmaster runs out of uses, he and his loved ones are butchered regardless. Joe manages to collaborate with the current one (whose wife is held captive) and is forced to watch a show of the clowns slaughtering children while the crowds think nothing is wrong.
Joe later finds his kids in a cage, and he and the ringmaster free Bruiser to attack the other clowns. With the element of surprise, the ensuing fight sees the clowns slaughtered and Crooks seemingly slain...the authorities find the bodies...but Crooks' own is missing.
the epilogue shows Crooks having survived and faked his death, limping back to rally his fellow clowns and return with a new circus....and revenge. Sequel Hook, a horror mainstay.
Mitigating issues?
Nope. The epilogue takes place from Crooks' POV and he is a wantonly, gleefully sadistic monster. He cares nothing that his fellow clowns are dead and only seems annoyed his operation was busted and he almost died. What's more, the whole "preying on kids" thing isn't something the clowns have to do. It's brought up animals suffice just fine, but Crooks finds humans more delicious.
Conclusion?
Easy yep
Goku Black
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Crooks
So this is like a serious version of Killer Klowns from Outer Space? Huh?
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Crooks
So, is anyone gonna give the write ups for Ixis Naugus and Kodos for the Archie Sonic comics or nah?
The Ultimate Lifeform
Bye
Rockshow, Starro, Crooks
Yes to Crooks
No to Bowser. I think he does barely pass the heinous standard, but it’s made clear that his love for Peach, while hopeless, is genuine as can be and Played for Laughs.
Yes to Crooks.
Edited by PurpleEyedGuma on Apr 19th 2023 at 11:06:38 AM
Also, next....I have a couple of new ones from Goblin slayer...you may remember it as the tonally inconsistent light novel/anime/manga about how "omg goblins are horrible rape monsters that kill tons of people constantly this ain't happy adventure time haha just kidding let's have happy adventure time"
So, there's a coupla villains who can make the cut to slot along with the Dark El. First, let's talk the Ice Witch
Who is the Ice Witch?
an evil sorceress and powerful vampire who dwells in the freezing regions of the north, the Ice Witch is only superficially loyal to the forces of evil and the powerful Demon Lord (a monstrous being slain by the heroic forces of light years ago, but whose resurrection is dawning)...instead of going on a mass murdering spree (which she does admittedly find tempting), she's decided to lay low for a bit.
Which entails winning over the loyalty of a tribe of sasquatch and unleashing them on the nearby tribe of Harefolk, which are gruesomely and brutally slaughtered while the Ice Witch preys on the maidens, something she has a long history of doing and with all the creepy serial killer vibes it requires. Ultimately she blocks out the sun magically in that area to allow free rein and makes sure to appropriate and hide away a silver arrow that can actually kill her since she doesn't trust her minions.
The heroes investigate and win the aid of the Harefolk, including one who's a young hunter...the Ice Witch tries to murder one party member, Priestess, with her endless winter blanketing out the north so the sasquatches can slaughter anyone there....her ultimate plan? Use all the ice monster attacks as cover to lay low in a town so she can just feed on people there subtly.
Ultimately the heroes confront her, find the arrow and Harefolk Hunter shoots it into her heart while the heroes obliterate her.
Mitigating issues?
She's at least as bad as the Goblin Lord here. She unleashes her Sasquatch army to slaughter and eat people alive while being an active serial killer on the side, and planning to continue that. It's not like Goblin Slayer has very many villains that are particularly nuanced. She probably sticks alongside the Dark Elf, with one other baddie standing out...the Demon Lord is a probable keeper eventually as well.
But yeah, no good qualities and just over the line.
Conclusion?
Keeper says I
Ice Which.
Goku Black
Ice Witch
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_down_emote.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Bowser.
Funnily enough I had another guy from a family comedy I've wanted to give a whirl for a while. I'm not certain he'll count by any means, but he's shockingly bad for the genre and I thought, if nothing else, he'd be a useful test case for a) where baseline heinousness for family comedies lies, and b) what the limits of Fridge Horror are.
What's the work?
The Pacifier is a Disney action-comedy starring Vin Diesel; it got negative reviews but is IMO ufairly maligned. Not at the level of Disney's straight-up great live-action offerings like Pirates 1 through 3 or Sky High, but a fun popcorn movie and surprisingly dark in many aspects too.
Dr. Howard Plummer, genius military scientist and loving family man, is dead. Murdered in cold blood, and everyone knows why: he's invented a revolutionary cloaking technology codenamed GHOST that can render military vehicles and weapons completely undetectable. It's obvious a hostile entity wants to get their hands on it, so Howard's widow, Julie, and his commanding officer, Captain Bill Fawcett, head off to Zurich to retrieve the GHOST schematics from a safe deposit box there. While they're away, Fawcett assigns hardass Navy SEAL Shane "The Pacifier" Wolfe, played by The Deisel, as bodyguard to Howard's five children - teens Zoe and Seth, elementary schooler Lulu, toddler Peter and baby Tyler - in case someone tries to get at GHOST through them. Shane sets to work turning the house into a boot camp and pissing off everyone around him, including the kids, cranky housekeeper Helga, snarky neighbors Mr. and Mrs. Chun, Seth's sadistic gym teacher Duane "The Murninator" Murney, and even the family guard duck. ...yes, guard duck. Shenanigans naturally ensue.
Who is the villain and what have they done?
Now, most of the movie focuses on Shane trying to avoid being Home Alone'd long enough to try to investigate who's behind all this, and the kids are convinced the threat is real when Shane fends off an attack by two masked intruders trying to steal a disc labeled "GHOST" (which turns out to be a DVD of Ghost with Patrick Swayze ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
). He ultimately wins the kids' respect in various ways - the teens by humiliating The Murninator in a wrestling match in front of the entire school, Lulu by teaching her Girl Scout troop martial arts to scare off a rival Boy Scout troop that always monopolizes the best cookie sales spot in town, and the babies by learning a strange dance Howard would do to help them sleep at night. Meanwhile Julie and Fawcett have spent all this time cutting through the ridiculous amount of red tape protecting Howard's Swiss Bank Account, and once they do it turns out that the deposit box doesn't actually contain the GHOST schematics at all, but a swipe card for a vault beneath his house back in the states. So back to the US they go, and Fawcett gives Shane a hearty thanks for all his hard work...
...by pistol-whipping him unconscious. Yeah, turns out Fawcett has been a double for North Korea all this time, and he wants GHOST so he can turn it over to them for use with their nukes. His reward for this? Simply a big fat-ass paycheck. Assisting him in this are the two masked assassins from earlier, who turn out to be "the Chuns" - really North Korean Intelligence agents and Fawcett's handlers for the GHOST job. With the family at the three spies' mercy, Shane agrees to trade GHOST for the kids' lives, and helps Fawcett past the defenses on the fault using the weird dance from before, which turns out to be a mnemonic device explaining how to get past the various booby traps. Before Fawcett opens the safe containing the real GHOST disc, he prepares to kill Shane and Julie, asking the former if he has any last words; he replies simply "Say goodnight, Peter Panda" (something Howard would always say to his son Peter at bedtime)... which causes the safe door to spring open and bean Fawcett unconscious. Julie takes advantage of the distraction to punch Mrs. Chun's lights out as well. The last bad guy left is Mr. Chun, who makes an able Last Villain Stand but, alas for him, is caught after being bitten in the crotch by the guard duck. The three villains are arrested, the Plummers' lives go back to normal, and Shane decides to stay in town, being offered a job as the new high school wrestling coach after The Murninator decides his true calling is... MUSICAL THEATRE!
Redeeming qualities?
Not a one; Fawcett is just a treacherous, greedy little asswipe. Julie even asks what could have possibly brought him to such treason at one point, and his reply is simply, in the most shit-eating voice imaginable, "Guess what? North Korea pays better!" The Chuns, or whatever their real names are, are certainly bad, being agents of a dictatorship willing to kill children, but they're just cogs in a machine, while Fawcett is a slimy opportunist who betrays everyone and everything he swore to protect in the name of cold hard cash.
Other mitigating issues?
Here's where things get weird. Like I said, there might be some elements of Fridge Horror involved here - like, Fawcett explicitly mentions that North Korea wants GHOST for their nukes, but presumably to avoid terrifying the kids in the audience, there's no elaboration on what precisely nukes do, only that North Korea getting invisible ones would be a Really Bad Thing. Of course anyone that knows what nukes do and how bad North Korea is would realize this plan succeeding would make Fawcett accessory to the murder of millions, but the movie does not explicitly dwell on this.
Also, it's not explained how complicit Fawcett was in the murder of Howard. He's killed in the Cold Open right after Shane rescues him from a gang of Serbian terrorists, shot by an unseen assailant just as he's about to get away. It's never revealed if the Serbians were working with the North Koreans here, or if they're just another faction that wants GHOST. Bizarrely, it's also never explained precisely who pulled the trigger on Howard - a Serbian that Shane missed? A North Korean? Fawcett himself? We get zilch.
Verdict?
I have no idea. Is the true extent of his plans too far into Fridge Horror? Is his level of involvement in Howard's death too vague? IS a family action-comedy a genre conducive to a CM at all?
...see why I thought he'd be a good test case? Eager to hear what you think.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to Crooks.
Shouldn't Solego still go on the Disney page?
The Sonic writeups were done yesterday; they're in the Sonic sandbox.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Yeah to Fawcett in my eyes. Relies too much on Fridge Horror to truly be heinous enough.
Yeah, definite nay to Fawcett on my end, sorry bud!
Sorry but for Fawcett. He does look to rely on fridge horror to be heinous enough.
Edited by Echidna on Apr 19th 2023 at 11:24:05 AM
Not the Eye
to Crooks and Ice Witch
No to Fewtacc
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
As I said there are some Anime characters who author likes in fic who have nothing to do with the canon kingdom hearts.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Yes.
Edited by EmperorGeode on Apr 19th 2023 at 8:26:29 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Like, anime characters who aren't even from Disney?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Unfortunate but easy![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_down_emote.png "[thumb down]")
on Bowser. His affection for Peach seems selfish but still kinda (keyword) genuine, plus he's far too comedic especially when you compare him to already-approved CM Bowsers like the one from Mario Brothers.
Also, Peaches.
Edited by ImSpidey2 on Apr 19th 2023 at 10:26:28 AM
That being said, I have no source.