Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
Goku Black
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Rios.
Also I think thr main villain of the latest season of Blue Bloods which I watched is a keeper. Try and get him up after I get my phone working. Or free time.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Messenger from another dimension.
Yes to Rios.
Welcome to the world of greatest media!
Not the Eye
to Rios.
Based on the EP, to Rios.
Wasn't there someone from the original movie—who returned in the show—who was supposed to come through here at some point?
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I'm not entirely sure about the Entity; were there any downvotes?
Yes to Rios. The family exterminator is the STARTER villain? Wow.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Rios
Wallace isn't bad enough. He's got more than Alonzo but the heinous standard is pretty fucked, in no short part duo to the quartet we've brought.
Lemme also toss a hearty yeah to Rios to round it out, easily the most fun personality of any of the Training Day villains too!
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Alright. Fair enough.
Let's not forget that the 2011 Charlie's Angels had a murderous prostitution and drug ringleader as its Starter Villain. Or that the first FBI series had a racist mad bomber as ITS Starter Villain. Haha. Apparently crime shows have a habit of going pretty HARD from the get go. Haha.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Mar 24th 2023 at 11:54:05 AM
Ultimate Moral Compass
Rios
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
We just need a header and quote for the SWAT sandbox.
Once Ravok does the EP, I've got a possible quote for Closer.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
RIP Toriyama
- Gladiator:
- Senator Falco is a self-serving, treacherous member of the Republic with designs on securing his own power at the cost of Rome. Falco throws in with the newly-appointed emperor Commodus despite the man's incompetence and wanton sadism, and Falco buys off loyalty of others to ensure Commodus's reign is secure. To further Commodus's goals, Falco uses his status as spymaster to weed out dissidents and get them thrown into the games or executed, uncaring that Commodus is slowly starving the entire population so long as Falco can indulge in his hedonism. When personally consulted by Commodus on a course of action for the rising rebellion, Falco concocts the scheme to monitor several other Senators and catch them expressing discontent, at which point Falco sees to it that they are all slaughtered in one bloody night.
Messenger from another dimension.
I have one more EP! From a Polish book, one of my favorites of all time. I already proposed two characters from book’s film adaptation, but the original book has an additional character whom the two were actually kinda Character Compositr. They still are prominent characters in the book, but their heinous actions were mostly sone by this guy who was Adapted Out. That book is Knights Of The Cross. It’s a historical fiction book in the 15th century aboit time Poland was at war with Teutonic Knights. Who undergo very severe Historical Villain Upgrade here.
‘’’Who is Hugo von Danveld’’’
He is a member of the Teutonic Order and a very sadistic one and is hated by other Teutonic knights which is saying a lot, considering how the order in the book is very much Always Chaotic Evil.
‘’’What does he do?’’’
He is very sadistic and enjoys slaughtering pagans. When a powerful Polish knight, Jurand of Spychow, defends pagans, Hugo runs away in fear while other knights get slaughtered. For abandoning his brothers, Hugo stands trial but gets absolved since he swears in the cross that his horse run away beyond his control (a lie). He develops hatred for Jurand, and comes up with an idea to kidnap his underage daughter and expresses desire to take her and make her his sex slave. Mr. De Fourcy, a messenger who accompanies the Teutonic Knights hates the plan and decides to inform the Polish Prince about that. Hugo murders him. He and the two other Teutonic knights (ones who are listed on film page) kidnap her and Hugo has all the bandits whom kidnapped her… hanged instead of compensating them. Jurand comes to Teutonic castle and Hugo sadistically takes pleasure in seeing his despair and taunts that if he gives her back, only with his bastard. Jurand gets so mad that he murders Hugo as well as Gottfried (like in the movie). Afterwards, Rotgier does what he did the film write up. Still, this EP is only focusing on Hugo von Danveld.
‘’’ Heinous?’’’
Totally. As I said, while Teutonic Order is chaotic evil in the book but Hugo goes extra mile in his sadism and is unpopular even among other Teutonic knights. The only character who could give him competition, is his superior Siegfried de Lowe who can’t count due to gigantic redeeming qualities. Still it’s Hugo who comes up with the plan to kidnap the girl and expresses desire and wish to take her (something de Lowe actually calls him out on). Plus, he is dirty coward and is willing to break an oath to avoid punishment (for Teutonic knights, it’s considered a huge taboo). The only crime de Lowe has that Hugo lacks is that admittedly, de Lowe puts Jurand thru gigantic cold blooded torture after Hugo and Gottfried are both killed.
‘’’ Verdict?’’’
Pass! I think I might look more into Sienkiewicz; one of my fave storytellers. Books he wrote could totally have more keepers.
Edit: Sorry for the way EP is written; it’s from my I Phone!
Edited by emperors on Mar 24th 2023 at 3:34:52 PM
Welcome to the world of greatest media!
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I'm honestly not sure if he's unique enough.
EDIT: Oh, and Echidna, I counted. Looks like the Entity has 5 yes votes (I think 6 if you include yourself) and 0 no votes.
Edited by ACW on Mar 24th 2023 at 3:47:10 PM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM DraftsEye write up time, here's a link to the story if you want to add it to the entry as well
- The Meeker And The All Seeing Eye by Matthew Kressel: The All-Seeing Eye is an ancient and immense AI that seeks to know everything there is. To this she harvested millions of civilizations to assimilate their knowledge killing almost all life in the galaxy and began harvesting stars to be used as fuel to increase her computational power. When harvesting stars the Eye comes across a stone containing the complete information of the human woman Beth and used this to continually recreates her quadrillions of times in an attempt to learn the last thing her wife told her, uncaring of how each Beth dies in pain of due to her illness and kills the loyal Meeker when he finally objects to this.
Yes to another monster of the Knights Templar named Hugo.
Not the Eye
And I'll say sure to Hugo
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
RIP Toriyama
Yes to Hugo
Alright, one last one from The Closer for us, with ACW's blessing...from the episode "Time Bomb":
Who are Evolution's End? What have they done?
- A trio of teenagers who believe that "Columbine was a great idea, they just didn't execute it right!", "Evolution's End" is comprised of Darren Melman, John McFadden, and Frank.
- The trio plan to "Kill the most people ever" in the worst mass shooting in America, scheming to carry it out at a shopping mall where they would shoot propane tanks to scare the shoppers into heading for the exit and then be mowed down by the teens wielding automatic weapons.
- Darren dies before the episode begins thanks to his own stupidity fucking around with the gang's weapons; John is later discovered by Major Crimes before he can carry out the scheme, and after giving a sadistic Motive Rant that chalks their crimes up to "survival of the fittest", he commits suicide to ensure the cops can't interrogate any further info out of him. Frank, the last one alive, attempts to carry out the attack all on his lonesome, and is only stopped by Major Crimes taking him down when he tries to kill them all and the crowd of hundreds of civilians.
Mitigating features?
Nah none, all 3 of them are wholly lacking anything positive...Darren is dead at the start of the episode but he's given a lot of characterization and talk through the episode, John is noted to be on meds for depression but in-person is just a ranting, Darwinistic maniac, and Frank behaves polite in public but turns into a cold-blooded machine when he begins carrying out the massacre.
And while yes, Frank is the only one who actually gets to the point of physically opening fire on civilians, all 3 teens skillfully planned it out and intended to take part, so they're all 3 equally culpable.
Heinousness?
They're nothing but a group of punk teens who want to pull off the worst mass shooting in history lmao they're waaaay over the line even for the show.
Final Verdict?
That's a Yes.
Would anyone mind if, so long as the discussion lands on them counting, I wrote them up earlier than the 3 day period just to get The Closer page finalized at last?
Edited by Ravok on Mar 24th 2023 at 2:44:59 AM
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Evolution's End, Hugo
Purely to close the page off since it's the last one, I'm not gonna object to the writeup being done earlier than 3 days.
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to EE.
I'm really unsure about Hugo. Does he have more kills, or is he just more sadistic?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Alrighty, with thanks to 43 for this, here's mine from Training Day:
Who is Rios? What has he done?
The villain of the premiere episode "Apocalypse Now", Enrique Rios is a cowboy hat-wearing crime boss.
Mitigating features?
He doesn't have any, just a hammy, power-hungry crook.
Heinousness?
Rios is bad for a Starter Villain, having killed off the entirety of Menjivar's leadership and their families to solidify his rule and turning the crime scene into a more violent, bloodthirsty one that culminates in a street-wide shootout that leaves multiple people dead. He's just a lieutenant who struck for power when he saw the opportunity, and proves himself far worse than Menjivar, who notably doesn't target innocent women or children—unlike Rios.
Final Verdict?
Yessir
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.